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E.P. Grondine
So then, where does all the non-scientific nonsense in the Z1 video fit in?
(I am not asking Achariya S's hypothesis.)

By the way, the only thing I ever heard of that resembled RBE was Leonid Brezhnev's attempt to bring computers and robots into the Soviet Union's economy.
The result was a disaster.

As a member of the Zeitgeist Movement myself I can answer that. While we may have members that are into the 9/11 conspiracy theories as told in the film or subscribe to alternative theories (such as the government allowing it to happen or the government obstructing investigations that would have prevented the event from happening), this does not however mean that TZM as an organization has any stance on it. Whether 9/11 was an inside job or not is an inconsequential thing to the direction of the movement. The same goes for the Federal Reserve Conspiracy Theories. In other words, members can indulge in these ideas but should not treat them as movement prerogative views.

Hope that answers your question.

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Voice of Reason
While we may have members that are into the 9/11 conspiracy theories as told in the film or subscribe to alternative theories
... this does not however mean that TZM as an organization has any stance on it. Whether 9/11 was an inside job or not is an inconsequential thing to the direction of the movement. The same goes for the Federal Reserve Conspiracy Theories.

In other words, members can indulge in these ideas but should not treat them as movement prerogative views.
Hope that answers your question.

but they do, as do the core members ...

like 2012 groups circulating on the net/web ... i wonder
'''''''' can a 'cult' exist on the net '''''''''' ?

impervious to scrutiny ...
the really important question is
who started the venus project and whats the agenda ?

cults are defined as ''' destructie ''''' i would say '''''' controling '''' would be a better definition
and with the anonymity of the web members dont really know who is at the helm do they ?

its not that archetect guy with the french name is it ?


venus is a goddess correct ?
could this be a goddess cult ?
the film makes refernceto the biblical ''''' mark of the beast '''' and david rockerfeller
but makes great effort to dismiiss the author of the prophesy/prediction

this is something that should be addressed with a reasonable solution
so far members glaze over it, as though there is no reason to address the serious flaws [many] in the film

is believing in a fraud destructive ?
please explain 7he7ruth.

7 take the trouble to read the material on this thread and it will answer your questions.

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7he7ruth
but they do, as do the core members ..

.

Then please by all means, point to me where core members have stated that the idea behind the TZM is to endorse these theories?

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7he7ruth
impervious to scrutiny ...
the really important question is
who started the venus project and whats the agenda ?

In order, no it is not impervious to scrutiny. Most of what it states are scientifically based q/a type of an ordeal. They have a series of material for which the organization endorses; however people are encouraged to learn about the subjects for which we speak about using material outside of the movement.

For example, there are several books and bits of literature on different fields of study that I have read which validate what was talked about and are published by presses such as Oxford, Harvard, Yale, Cambridge, Routledge, Brill, etc... these are all very much established academic papers and whatnot. Everyone is encouraged to scrutinize the prospect so as to correct any flaws or errors in one's subject.

The person who started it is Jacque Fresco who's resume you can view here; you can also find many interviews, lectures and broadcasts done by the man if you want to know more about him.

As for the agenda, well my friend the agenda is to create awareness about new alternatives to the current social system in particularly those that are based upon equality, good social relations, eliminating Social-Darwinian tendencies and moving from a system that is not based on monetary exchanged but on the sound and scientific usage of resources. It is also about promoting a Utilitarian lifestyle... I would say we are more of a sub-culture than anything else.

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7he7ruth
cults are defined as ''' destructie ''''' i would say '''''' controling '''' would be a better definition
and with the anonymity of the web members dont really know who is at the helm do they

?

Well in order to do that you would have to point out who would be the leader of the movement... all I know are people who are designated as coordinators and they cannot be considered. I have never been told what to do, how to do it or been forced to go to meetings to be honest. There have been times when I decided to go to a meeting but then at the last moment thought I didn't want to cause I was too tired. I never got any kind of harassment for doing this several times so I do not think it is controlling.

It appears that there may be a deep connection between TMZ and Occupy, given the amount of people within Occupy that are TMZ members.

Whether there is conspiracy or anything like, between Occupy and TMZ remains to be proved. Yet, it is certainly concerning.

Given these two facts:
1. Thousands of people have been “physically hurt” doing Occupy actions.
2. TMZ has been a heavy supporter of Occupy.

Supporting and inciting thousands and thousands of people to protest that have gotten hurt seems worth a serious look. It very well may be the “necessary” evidence to be concerned and state that they may in-fact, be dangerous.

I do understand that there is a time for protesting, demonstrating, etc.

Given these two facts:
1. People should be encouraged to be honest with themselves and make the unobstructed changes in their own lives before protesting; that they should be healthy in mind, body and action, within reason, before inciting others to be involved in nonviolent civil disobedience, which of course means “people will get hurt” being arrested in many cases, being violent or not.
2. TMZ being actively involved in these cases of people getting hurt clearly puts some of the responsibilities on their shoulders, as others are doing what they request.

Further review suggested by all.

Sounds like complete BS to me David Wish.

You have to pass a health check now before you can voice a protest? Sounds a bit fascist to me. And who is going to health check the health checkers?

Who gets to define what is health and what is not? The psych profession who are currently pathologising every known facet of human nature as a disease and had such a great record of integrity in Russia, China, the Us, Canada and UK?

If thats the best you've got I'd rather take David Icke, at least he's good for a laugh.

It seems reasonable and compassionate to me, to look clearly as possible at any situation that is causing harm to life.

“Never, never be afraid to do what's right, especially if the well-being of a person or animal is at stake. Society's punishments are small compared to the wounds we inflict on our soul when we look the other way.”
¯ Martin Luther King Jr.


Person A gives instruction to person B do something that may cause harm to person C. Person C has children. Person C then gets hurt and as a result, the children of person C lives are hurt. To the children, Person A, and person B are factually involved with their lives and their misfortune.

Upon accepting leadership comes great responsibility.

I am not putting the choice of health status on another. If people are going to lead others into harms way they should be doing the basics that they themselves see and realize they should be doing, first. The only way I know how to properly work with this position is to not judge others, but to judge the actions alone against life being most important of all. I see no error in that logic, as we all require life first before anything and it is most important; which again means that everyone is important.

There is an example in science with the double slit experiment, which shows that results are always affected by the simple act of using life/consciousness to measure/observe. Many people will debate the results saying that if we make a sensor and use it, that the sensor collapses the wave front to a particle. However, the inclusion of, “…we…”, is actually using life and ignoring this fact up front. When we peruse this issue further we are confronted with endless scientists saying that it would be dishonest to state the results as such without clarifying that in the end life was still used and required and could not be removed from the equation.

There appears to be a parallel here between the two, TZM/Occupy are the ones leaving out important parts of an equation as proof of their position. They both appear to be actions that propagate lying and deception.


The ones calling for others to put themselves in harm’s way through TZM/Occupy are not completely stating, “We have been informed that we are actually contributing to and supporting many violent things in our own personal choices in life, and yet we are calling ourselves non-violent. Indeed, we have had it logically proved to us that we are in the wrong and for some reason we continue to cause harm. Possibly we are addicted to something, but please follow my guidance anyway.”

If it was stated like that, it would at least be honest.

I believe we should always measure all instruction from others as whether or not it is holding life as most important in its goal. If it fails this test or appears to that it should be reviewed further. This is indeed the case with TZM/Occupy. Innocent children are dying because of their personal actions and innocent children are suffering as the result of their parents being guided into actions by others that do not accept what they already believe.

DavidWish:

Now you are going off on the Occupy movement, which is off topic.

Please focus like a laser on the topic of this thread.

The Occupy movement has no relevance to this thread or for that matter this board.

And the Ross Institute is an educational nonprofit, and therefore not involved in politics per its tax-exempt status.

If you want to talk politics this is the wrong place to do it.

Thousands of people have been hurt, and are continuing to get hurt, at many different locations where TZM members are actively involved and encouraging others to participate.

If this is concerning to anyone here, please investigate.
Thank you

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DavidWish
Thousands of people have been hurt, and are continuing to get hurt, at many different locations where TZM members are actively involved and encouraging others to participate.

If this is concerning to anyone here, please investigate.
Thank you

It is concerning to me that you are making the STTTTREEEETTTCCCHHH to suggest that people getting injured during activists protests somehow equates to "harmful cult" behavior.

I will be sure to let my friends in the Civil Rights Movement know that they are apparently a cult too. Because apparently Martin Luther King Jr. was an evil person getting people killed when he was protesting to see to it that people of color were treated fairly in this country.

Seriously despicable. Give it up. You had every chance in the world to prove to an actual expert that TZM/TVP was a cult. You failed at every turn. So now all you have is repeating the lie often enough on youtube and anywhere else they will allow your nonsense in the hopes that people will not know about this debate.