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VTV
"Dissent" on this forum gets shouted down in the form of moderation. The TZM forums were no different in that regard. Again, as I have already pointed out and has yet to be refuted people were not banned for voicing dissent. They were banned for the same sort of things that you ban people from here for. And the same results are happening as now 2012CT has taken to personally attacking Rick Ross for daring to ban him from this forum. A great number of the links you have posted link to conversations on forums where people are calling people fat, gay, or whatever other juvenile namecalling. THAT is the "dissent" that got people banned. And it would get people banned from any forum.

An RBE society does not "shout down" dissent. And if you read/watched and became familiar with the actual data involved you would know that already. You are hearing from people who were banned, and then cried censorship, that they voiced legitmate concerns or whatever and were "censored". Most of these people are outright lying. All of this was established earlier at the start of this thread. You aught to consider going back and reading it from the start.

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Corboy
]No thanks. I dont want that kind of world, so thats why anyone considering TZM as an outlet for their idealism, time and money should have a chance to witness how hard TZM enthusiasts come over here to shout down mere attempts to describe disagreements about TZM from other parts of the internet.

Ok, so you object to TZM because you somehow have gotten the idea that the entire organization would "shout down" all dissent. You base this on the fact that I have asked you why you are going off topic with post after post of various samples from the internet that I could just as easily counter by posting positive conversations about TZM from the internet. That have nothing to do with cults.

Again, how is this relevant to the actual purpose of this forum and website? I am not "shouting you down". That's something you invented. I am asking you why you are using this forum in what looks like a personal crusade.

This forum is for discussion of "Cults, Sects, and New Religious Movements". Not "people who shout down all dissent on their private forums by banning people who break the rules of the forum they agreed to when they joined..."

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VTV
You are clearly taking propaganda as reality. We didn't ban people from TZM forums for varying viewpoints. We banned them for attacking and bullying people.

Our forums were for the purpose of talking about TZM events and news, eventually people were not welcome there who were off topic. Which happened a lot. (People trying to get people to join their own groups or whatever.)

And now you are linking to websites where attacking and bullying is the entire point of the blogs in question. Calling people fat, gay, and any number of juvenile slurs.

So what is the purpose of this forum? Is it discuss cults? Or to allow people a "platform" to spread libel and slander not related to any cult activity?

I will forward this response on to Mr. Ross as well as what it is I am replying to.

VTV,

Are claiming that the former Official Zeigeist Movement Forums were open to non-members and debate?

-Jim

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jimjesus
VTV,

Are claiming that the former Official Zeigeist Movement Forums were open to non-members and debate?

-Jim

Initially they were. We ended up dealing with hundreds of questions posted that could of easily been answered in the FAQ. So then we put in the Quiz. And even after that we ended up spending hours and hours and hours sifting through "noise" as it was described.

If someone asked questions or had critisisms and were able to communicate those absent personal attack they were generally communicated with. But just like this forum, that forum had a stated purpose, and people who were off topic or clearly there just to cause trouble were eventually removed.

I opened my own forums to ANYONE who follows the basic rules of no Ad hominem, personal attack, or excessive logical fallacy.

It is important to note that the TZM forums ended up with tens of thousands of users. It was a full time job trying to keep up with it. And in typical internet fashion anyone who's questions were not answered THIS VERY MINUTE were always labeled as "Oh I see! You won't dare oppose my critisisms!"

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VTV

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jimjesus
VTV,

Are claiming that the former Official Zeigeist Movement Forums were open to non-members and debate?

-Jim

Initially they were. We ended up dealing with hundreds of questions posted that could of easily been answered in the FAQ. So then we put in the Quiz. And even after that we ended up spending hours and hours and hours sifting through "noise" as it was described.

If someone asked questions or had critisisms and were able to communicate those absent personal attack they were generally communicated with. But just like this forum, that forum had a stated purpose, and people who were off topic or clearly there just to cause trouble were eventually removed.

I opened my own forums to ANYONE who follows the basic rules of no Ad hominem, personal attack, or excessive logical fallacy.

It is important to note that the TZM forums ended up with tens of thousands of users. It was a full time job trying to keep up with it. And in typical internet fashion anyone who's questions were not answered THIS VERY MINUTE were always labeled as "Oh I see! You won't dare oppose my critisisms!"

VTV,

That's not what I asked. I'm asking if you're saying that the TZM Official Forums were open to non-members and non-supporters. At least in the year prior to it's closure, was this the case according to you?

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jimjesus

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VTV

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jimjesus
VTV,

Are claiming that the former Official Zeigeist Movement Forums were open to non-members and debate?

-Jim

Initially they were. We ended up dealing with hundreds of questions posted that could of easily been answered in the FAQ. So then we put in the Quiz. And even after that we ended up spending hours and hours and hours sifting through "noise" as it was described.

If someone asked questions or had critisisms and were able to communicate those absent personal attack they were generally communicated with. But just like this forum, that forum had a stated purpose, and people who were off topic or clearly there just to cause trouble were eventually removed.

I opened my own forums to ANYONE who follows the basic rules of no Ad hominem, personal attack, or excessive logical fallacy.

It is important to note that the TZM forums ended up with tens of thousands of users. It was a full time job trying to keep up with it. And in typical internet fashion anyone who's questions were not answered THIS VERY MINUTE were always labeled as "Oh I see! You won't dare oppose my critisisms!"

VTV,

That's not what I asked. I'm asking if you're saying that the TZM Official Forums were open to non-members and non-supporters. At least in the year prior to it's closure, was this the case according to you?

I just answered you.

Initially they were.

If someone asked questions or had critisisms and were able to communicate those absent personal attack they were generally communicated with. But just like this forum, that forum had a stated purpose, and people who were off topic or clearly there just to cause trouble were eventually removed.

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VTV

I just answered you.

Initially they were.

If someone asked questions or had critisisms and were able to communicate those absent personal attack they were generally communicated with. But just like this forum, that forum had a stated purpose, and people who were off topic or clearly there just to cause trouble were eventually removed.

VTV,

I disagree, I think you're being vague in regards to the time-frame I specifically noted. I'm not talking about initially, I asked in the year prior to it's closing; was it open to non-members and non-supporters? Are you claiming that is the case in the two quotes I provided in my first post?

VTV says:
"We didn't ban people from TZM forums for varying viewpoints. We banned them for attacking and bullying people. "
"Again, as I have already pointed out and has yet to be refuted people were not banned [on TZM's global forum] for voicing dissent"

This is false. This was a screen shot that was taken of the forums' old suspended/banned user list. In it it gave details on who was banned and why. Note the user "admin" and "PeterJoseph" in particular. These users are the same individual; Peter Joseph Merola who is the founder of TZM and the owner of said forums. If VTV is implying that the forum is open to non-members and non-supporters of TZM and it's ideology; the owner of the forums disagrees and has exercised bans on people for "professed non-member" and/or "non-supportive" of TZM. "This forum is for members, per our rules." -Peter Joseph

2 example threads of banned users for being non members or unsupportive:
[i.imgur.com]
[i.imgur.com]

Merola again pointing out the forum is for members only:
[i.imgur.com]

There are bans for personal attacks, but there are bans for just not agreeing with TZM and it's direction. I have been aware of TZM's non-member policy since I have been aware of the movement and it was one of the concerns I originally expressed that they do not allow dissenting views in their forums and was told that the reason being was that it was a forum to forward ideas for the movement's direction and not for debate. VTV knows this, he was a moderator himself and even posted in the above thread.

Another issue I wish to point is many times when I posted critical videos of TZM, some users would instigate a false flagging campaign under "hate speech" to which I was notified by one of the perpetrators. One of which had suffered the fate of being removed, 5 others being having properly flagged but passing staff review. Those that survived was a result of YouTube being notified of the false flagging operations and took their flagging less seriously. I have been blocked by various members for asking questions on their YouTube channels. As well as receiving multiple threats of death and violence. It's been my personal experience that many members of TZM actively engages in censorship in critiques of their group and ideology.

-Jim

This thread is becoming a place for people to conduct what seems like a "flame war".

Apparently some here have flamed at other message boards and now wish to bring that conflict to this board.

Sorry, but the purpose of this message board is not to provide space for such activities.

Please understand that further posts along these lines will not be approved.

A clarification.

The Ross Institute message board is for real people who chose handles for anonymity, but who remain themselves behind the handles.

This place is not to be used as a venue for role playing games.

RR.com message board is a resource for private conversations about real people's lives.

This place is not a Live Action Role Play venue. If you want to 'larp' this is not the place.

A genuinely playful game is consensual for all involved. Treating this message board as a game while others see this as a real place for real people is betrayal.

Definitions of Large Action Role Playing provided here:

[www.urbandictionary.com]

This RI message board is for people who remain themselves behind their handles.

This is not a place to role play or entertain oneself by treating the rest of us as characters to outgame or toy with.

There are other venues online and in real life for that sort of play.

One sign that this place is for real is that Mr Ross has a board of directors, and his website gives a brick and mortar address and telephone number.

And he has earned the respect of a series of attorneys who represented both him and this website.

Here are some legal archives. This wasnt a LARP. It was the real deal.

[www.culteducation.com]

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jimjesus
VTV says:
"We didn't ban people from TZM forums for varying viewpoints. We banned them for attacking and bullying people. "
"Again, as I have already pointed out and has yet to be refuted people were not banned [on TZM's global forum] for voicing dissent"

This is false. This was a screen shot that was taken of the forums' old suspended/banned user list. In it it gave details on who was banned and why. Note the user "admin" and "PeterJoseph" in particular. These users are the same individual; Peter Joseph Merola who is the founder of TZM and the owner of said forums. If VTV is implying that the forum is open to non-members and non-supporters of TZM and it's ideology; the owner of the forums disagrees and has exercised bans on people for "professed non-member" and/or "non-supportive" of TZM. "This forum is for members, per our rules." -Peter Joseph

2 example threads of banned users for being non members or unsupportive:
[i.imgur.com]
[i.imgur.com]

Merola again pointing out the forum is for members only:
[i.imgur.com]

There are bans for personal attacks, but there are bans for just not agreeing with TZM and it's direction. I have been aware of TZM's non-member policy since I have been aware of the movement and it was one of the concerns I originally expressed that they do not allow dissenting views in their forums and was told that the reason being was that it was a forum to forward ideas for the movement's direction and not for debate. VTV knows this, he was a moderator himself and even posted in the above thread.

Another issue I wish to point is many times when I posted critical videos of TZM, some users would instigate a false flagging campaign under "hate speech" to which I was notified by one of the perpetrators. One of which had suffered the fate of being removed, 5 others being having properly flagged but passing staff review. Those that survived was a result of YouTube being notified of the false flagging operations and took their flagging less seriously. I have been blocked by various members for asking questions on their YouTube channels. As well as receiving multiple threats of death and violence. It's been my personal experience that many members of TZM actively engages in censorship in critiques of their group and ideology.

-Jim

In my reply to you, I made it clear that the forums were initially open to anyone including non-members to talk about it. And then I explained the way things went down from there.

You are trying to imply that I am lying, but that in of itself is false.

Eventually, EXACTLY as I explained it the forums for TZM became just for members of TZM to discuss issues surrounding TZM activities, just as this forum is supposed to be about discussing cults.

I truly doubt you were sent any death threats, but again TZM has thousands of members and individuals on the internet can claim to be part of anything. And say anything. There is no organized group within TZM that suggests this.

As for "censorship" Youtube investigates videos to see if they need to be taken down. You can call that "false flagging" if you like but there is a process and they are reviewed by real people who apparently agree with whatever reason the videos were flagged.

I have seen many of your comments on the internet that were generally childish, and cruel. So it does not surprise me that some of your content was taken down.

VTV,

The only point I am trying to make here in regard to the forum is that TZM's official message board was not open to debate or outside views which you implied. I only withed to correct this error. TZM's message board were strictly moderated and did not allow for any opposing views in all the time I was familiar with it.

I'm not here to debate you VTV. I've stated what I have personally experienced. That is all.