The Way Of The Heart - Cult??
Posted by: Ziggy ()
Date: February 10, 2011 07:48AM

Hi Everyone,

I have been directed to this site. I am interested in better understanding a group called "The Way of the Heart". []

Went to a 2-3 hour introductory
> session, and basically got this information:
> Self empowerment talk
> Involvement with God
> Spirituality
> Science
> Daniel Goodenough
> Life Mission - Repetative in speech and written word
> Intention - Repetative in speech and written word
> Pilgrimige - Repetative in speech and written word
> Devine - A member can question God on "Your" behalf
> "The Field" - A book that helps them shore up their science beliefs and God
> Ken Wilber - Very controversial person in the public eye
>I think they are cult like material, does anyone have any dealings with this group, and what are the conclusions?

> I don't buy what they are selling.

Re: The Way Of The Heart - Cult??
Posted by: walter1963 ()
Date: February 10, 2011 12:22PM

Hi Ziggy

I looked at their websites - both old version and current. The old one reeked of being a cult recruitment site replete with students all wearing black clothes. The current site is so vague a person would have no idea what they are really about. Just a lot of vague new age nostrums and platitudes that any prospective will read in the meaning they want.

Two other warning signs:

"The Field" - this is another one of those obnoxious and toxic books that state we create our own reality.

Ken Wilber - a man who is nothing but a purveyour of his own fatuous religious/spirtual interpretations and who has promoted some of the worst people(monsters) as spiritual gurus. People like Adi Da and Trungpa and every other authoritarian, power mad thug out there. Anyone taking his toxic advice will burn.

As Mr. Goodenough, it may be a alias or the guy is dead. There are several Mr. Goodenough's found by google but none of them seem to be the one in question.

Lastly, those instructions to be repetitive both in speech and written word is nothing but self-hypnosis. You can zap yourself into lala land very easy if you do this. Especially if you are told to write and say certain things.

Re: The Way Of The Heart - Cult??
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: February 10, 2011 10:04PM

Walter has written very informative posts about Bandler and Grinder, who popularized some potent trance methods that were supposed to remain in the purview of ethical, responsible health care professionals.

It does not matter how intelligent you are or how well educated you are--this stuff bypasses IQ and can disrupt care, caution and the ability to protect one's boundaries and well being.

I recently went to study the tech of one quite famous operator and was forced to flee the room after just 45 minutes. Three quarters of the audience were somnolent or actutually asleep, and I could barely keep my own eyes open to write down the tricks this fellow was using. Only way to clear my head was to get out.

Several things to watch for:

Never, under any circumstances sign away your right to sue or mediate for liability in event that you incur harm.

Here are specimens of such paperwork.


Always fact check.

If you find names run a Google search.

Walter is 100% right about Ken Wilber.

Names of the persons involved with this are very difficult to find on th website. Why?

You will probably be expected to be open and intimate with your own life.

Why are the names of the persons who started this venture so very difficult to locate on the website? Most such websites at least have a list of trainers, given by name that can be easily located.

Re: The Way Of The Heart - Cult??
Posted by: Mladybug05 ()
Date: February 28, 2011 09:48AM

I have been trying to find info about the way of the heart for quite some time and have not found brother has becomed involved in this via his wife and his behavior has grown increasingly concerning. He recently has cut off contact with my mom and dad and is barely speaking to me and our other sister. Overall his speech seems very repetitive as you all have referred to and before he stopped talking to the family he would constantly be speaking about his lifes mission and how no one understands him anymore but he would never speak about the way of the heart when we would ask him about it nor would his wife. It makes it difficult to not think that this may be a cult when people are so passionate about something yet refuse to speak on it to family. I know they travel to conferences and have spent quite a bit of money on these trainings..can anyone provide any more info on this group, especially if you have ever been to a conference? Any info would be greatly appreciated!

Re: The Way Of The Heart - Cult??
Posted by: dwest ()
Date: February 28, 2011 03:17PM

Mladybug05, so sorry to hear that your brother has cut off contact with your parents.

Since you have limited contact I highly recommend this page:


Re: The Way Of The Heart - Cult??
Posted by: Ziggy ()
Date: May 22, 2011 01:19PM

Hi again everyone-concerning "The Way of The Heart" - it's all making sense now, but it took a while to put the pieces together.

I have gathered information about this group over a few years. Some of the people in charge are well educated in sociology, psychology, human behavour, and councelling, and do all these things to make a living. That being said, if you ask for a professional standing in any category, you will find non, as far as I have seen. So one may ask how does such a group and its members make a living without professional standings?? That is an easy question to answer. When a person has a degree or diploma from a university or college in such things as sociology or psychology, then the door is open in Canada to set up a practice with legal papers stating, "you are seeing me at your own discretion". Legally these people can not work under laws that govern professional organizations in Canada, and they probably don't want to, as they would run into legal trouble considering what they teach and stand for. So, as long as they have one official papers from a governed school, how they wish to run their business is up to them (The Way of The Heart is another side business - these people have their own practice in health related work). The legalities of setting up shop in councelling, or health related work (bogus or not), I learned from a social worker who has government approved papers allowing them to set up a legal practice governed by Canadian laws. So, in a nut shell, "The Way of The Heart" is to some degree a religious cult that is allowed to exist as long as they know all the legal problems to avoid. The leaders are people well educated in all aspects of human behaviour, and simply put, make extra money from what they teach outside of other work they do for the bulk of their living, nothing more nothing less.

These people will not say a thing if suspicion or negativity is positioned in their direction, and in keeping their mouth shut, they don't entertain an argument where they may have to defend themselves, and in so doing have nothing to stand on. They are not stupid, on the contrary, they are quite skilled at the art of deception. Bottom line, it is all for money, nothing more, nothing less. I have personally seen the interactions among the "heavies" in the group, and who they are behind the show, and who they are leading the show is totally different creatures. These people have as much legal right to set up a belief system, as any church does. They know exactly how to set up situations so when they talk about helping people or acts of integrity, it is undeniable that the surface evidence is their to support the good works in the public eye, but behind the scenes they have an agenda - to win your trust. They are really really crafty. When the "_ _ it" hits the fan for them in any way, they run the other way, and will avoid all confrontation. Give them a few months, and they will sneak back in. Placing objects around you or giving you things in moments of good will or kindness is their way of playing relational association, so that when you see the object, on a deeper level you think of them in good standing, even without knowing it. So if they decide to avoid you for a while, the object connecting them, you, and good thoughts will be in your house or surroundings. It is a game of mental manipulation at far deeper levels than most people can comprehend. It has taken years to unravel the mystery, and the combined knowledge of these people is hundreds of years. In order to run a show such as theirs, understanding taxes, laws, social networking ... etc allows them to run under the radar, yet still make a living. Think about it, they win you over, and mentally suggest you keep quiet about the group when appropriate, while at the same time winning members. They teach courses on their belief system widening the numbers. Oh yes, more courses are being offered over the years, and I think if run legally, business trips become a write off - in my view, and I am talking about full trips overseas, then a little non-profit work to the less fortunate in the area ... etc??

To take things further, they use a belief system revolving around scientific facts which can not disprove or prove such things as alien life forms, or past events that are extremely controversial in the world of the unknown. Simply put, a little scientific direction on their part, a little wow factor, and some spirituality for the final effect, and low and behold they have your emotions and then they have you. Your trained to keep the group wisdom safe, and stay away from non-believers because the system proves itself to be right, based on historical and scientific evidence, of a few controversial figures. Put all this together, and you have a bunch of beliefs that can not be proven or dis-proven any more than if you told me you heard the voice of God yesterday tell you to make a peanut butter sandwich, and who am I to disprove you. This is all mind control, and at the end of the day, these guys are enjoying a fully paid all inclusive vacation and laughing all the way to the bank. They act the part, they play the part, and they live the persona, BUT, behind the scenes these people have all sorts of troubles like you and me, and their is no magic, no divine anything, or spiritual power that they harness - I have seen it with my own eyes, and when they are not careful, people eventually catch on, and avoid the group.

These people like to be in control, and will time events around their schedule, and their own settings. When you are not on your turf, you can not call the shots, and when they have you over enough to have your mind associated with their positive speech, or strategically placed visually pleasing items, they eventually gain your trust - you do not want this!!! Or they might build you up to break you down without you knowing, so that your mind goes back to the pleasing surroundings at their place, and then you want to go back for healing - it is such a mind game!!

If you would like to defend yourself from these people first take them out of the environment they normally control, like their own surroundings, and place them among people that have been around life a good bit, and who have the same education as they do or preferably much higher education. Have such people question "The Way of The Heart" and its standings in such a way as to make the cult have to defend itself at an intellectual level, or legal standing.
Remember these people associate themselves with professional people in the work force to gain as much information as they can to keep the cult alive and kicking, so having people with the know how to argue against cult minded educated people, and not put up with cult garbage thinking will usually shut the cult up right quick.

Warm up to the cult, win their trust (like they win yours), then have a get together over dinner at "YOUR PLACE", and do invite a few other friends who have professional standing as coucellors or psychologists, tax lawyers, accountants ... etc, and at the end of a nice meal, have your friends ask the cult members really uncomfortable questions, but do not give the cult members much time to think about the answers:

Is your group certified under any legitamate government organization?
Do any of your members have government approved positions in relation to your system of beliefs?
Have any of your members used this belief system for financial gain?
Does this system provide a tax shelter for the benefits of its members?
Can you tell me how you can prove a divine life force talks to you, and who is it that your accountable to in order to know your thoughts are correct?
Is your group based upon perfecting the mistakes of other cults who have failed in order to win over members?
Do taxation laws warrant preferential treatment to religious groups hiding under the radar?
Are you aware, that your system of beliefs is your groups undoing - do you think a right minded person would pay for some of the courses you group teaches?
Are you aware that some of the people of your belief system that you think shore up your thinking are people that society has mistrusted?

There you have it - you have freed yourself from the cult?

Oh by the way - I would think The Way of The Heart has this site and all other anti cult sites in view so as to know how to avoid conflict, and understand their enemy. "Stay close to your friends, and even closer to your enemies".

It is best to defend against this group with subject matter they are not willing to defend, it makes them look less divine, and pathetically helpless.
As well, you can always throw in some visuals here or there, conjured up with your imagination. The strength of this group is the subject matter that you can not defend against because the belief system is based on quazi science that has not been proven or dis-proven, so ask them blunt questions that take them out of their comfort zone and into hard reality. Oh yes, the little finger shaking, and tapping that they do to get into the mental zone to conjure up the divine, is nothing more than relational association to the teachings of the cult. For example, when they teach you how to be a better you depending on the divine interaction you need in your life, a finger tapping or body movement you will do to conjure up the divine answers to your questions. This tapping is something that the leaders teach you, so that finger tapping, divine answers, and the leaders are all in relation to each other, and bound in your thoughts, so the teachers and the divine become equal through your choice to tap and finger gesture. There are people who see this funny stuff, and question it, and usually think the cult person is whacko, then there are others that are curious, and get sucked into the mind control.

Basically don't put up with their garbage, they are harmless, and just want control of people for the sake of money, because non of the stuff they teach is free. Really if it was so divine, why would it have a price?? No one at any good Church asks you to pay up, you pay up so the church, and its members can make a living, and feed the families.

Re: The Way Of The Heart - Cult??
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: May 22, 2011 10:11PM

Precautions for Attending MultiDay Events (not just the one discussed here)

Only only go to an event, especially a multiday event, in your own car. Dont surrender your car keys or cell phone. If you need coffee to function, bring caffiene tablets and some protein powder in case they try to stick you on a low protein no-caffiene diet. A few energy bars up the sleeve are always good.

Dont surrender your car keys. Next, despite this being scorned as selfish and un Green, dont have anyone carpool with you. Why? Because if you decide you want to leave, if you have buddies who rely on you for transportation and they want to stay, you'll be stranded.

Tell them to send you the paperwork you will have to sign as a condition of participating. This can be sent online via a pdf file.

What you want to know before you send payment is whether you will have to sign you are asked to sign paperwork in which you relinquish any right to sue or mediate for damages in case you are harmed during one of their workshops.

If you are expected to take responsiblity for your life, any program (not only the one discussed here, but any program) should take responsiblity for its life transforming potential by acknowledging there are possible risks.

Physicians and licensed therapists do not require patients or clients to sign away rights to sue or mediate for damages in case of harm.

If they dont let you see the paperwork until you are at the event, insist on sitting in a quiet coerner to read it. Get out if you are not allowed to do this.

Ask (loudly)whether there will be breaks and how often they will arrange breaks.

Demand to know how late in the evening the event will be.

Dont disclose too much personal information on forms. You need to know if they are taking precautions about confidentiality. You dont have to tell total strangers what you do for a living. Thats between you and the tax revenue department. You dont know who handles the data at their office. What if someone splits and decides to swipe a list of names and sell it?

Ask if you are going to sharing intimate painful material from your life during the event. Ask also whether you will be filmed or recorded or if anyone will be taking notes. If they are evasive or try to put you on the defensive ('Why are you being so negative?') get out.

Now...this advice goes for any human potential event, not just the one being discussed here.

Someone may read this and say 'Oh, you are so negative and paranoid. Why not be open?'

The question is---open to WHAT?'

Here's the thing. These things are adventures.

People who take adventures in the great outdoors always plan for a possible emergency. People engaged in rock climbing, camping, hiking, take care to bring maps, carry rain gear, water purifyier tablets and food. They will also leave word with friends and families about where they go, and what route they plan to take and when they plan to come back.

THat way, if they fall and break a leg and dont come home on schedule, someone will have the information needed to inform the Search and Rescue unit that covers the area.

This pre-planning is not paranoia. It is realism and respects that all true adventure includes the unknown and risk.

Well, we need to know how to prepare for social/pschological adventures.

The folks who run these programs plan the event and the environment very carefully.

THose of us whom they want to attend as new members--we need to plan too.

So that if we see that a storm is brewing we have our own means of transportation and can go home.

And if someone says, 'But you have not experienced this, how dare you pass judgement'

I would reply 'Experiences can be misleading. There are some kinds of experiences I *know* I can do without.'

And valuing heart and experience at expense of the mind is not a divine truth. And it is not a stance that transcends and includes all else.

Instead it expresses a bias that is not transcendental, but originateds in a particular belief system--in this case, Romanticism. Romanticism, a Western belief system and set of attitudes, arose from the middle and upper middle classes starting in the mid-18th Century. Much of what we think we know about "shamanism", buddhism, and other Asian religions has been biased and filtered through Western Romanticism, which priviliges experience and heart and self expression. Romanticism exists only among those who dont have to worry where their next meal or set of meals, come from.


Re: The Way Of The Heart - Cult??
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: May 22, 2011 10:29PM

In a discussion of Thanssaro Bhikkhu's article, one person wrote

"In this talk...


which I would recommend a listen to in full, Thanissaro Bhikkhu draws attention to a particular aspect of Romaniticism and its influence on western particular the the realm of feelings ...vedana..and how in the Romantic view of Buddhism these become an object for cultivation...where Peak Experiences are actively sought after and positive feelings are seen as a goal in themselves.

He points out that the Buddha regarded feelings as simply another set of arising conditions to be observed in their genesis and passing...that all sorts of positive states await the meditator but that they are not ends in themselves, they are by-products of the states of absorption."

I quote this because even one does not practice as a Buddhist, it is useful to know that the emphasis on feelings and peak experiences has not always been valued as many value them today.

If one studies up a bit on Romanticism, understands it as one belief system among many, it becomes possible to see how Romanticism runs as a bias through so much of the New Age, and makes it possible to 1) devalue critical thinking and exalt feelings and the quest for 'experiences' and 2) obtain social validation for this stance making it seem the only way one can make sense of the world.

Again, Romanticism is only sustainable if one has a full stomach and isnt living on the ragged edge of survival.

The cultures that produced genuine shamanism and in which Buddha, Jesus and the Sufis lived and taught were much closer to starvation. People lived with the constant background pain of toothache, the pinch of hunger and old orthopedic injuries, bouts of malaria. Jungles and mountain passes had rock falls, snakes and bandits.

There was not a lot of leisure for cultivation of and documetation of fine feelings.

Still, without Romanticism, one will still have authoritarian bids for power. They'll have d different anthropology, is all.

But the next time someone says 'But how can you say this if you have not 'experienced it'?

Just smile and know that whoever is trying to shame you away from your critical thinking is not an agent of Reality. They're just inmates of Western Romanticism and their guru or teacher is also an inmate of of that same belief system and knows how to tweak it for marketing purposes.

Re: The Way Of The Heart - Cult??
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: May 22, 2011 11:10PM

(Advice for any group, not just this one)

If you leave, just leave. Dont think you owe an explanation. They may try to talk you out of it.

If you want a refund, wait until you are home and negotiate by mail and leave a paper trail. Dont try to get your money back while still onsite. Get home first.

A letter from your lawyer or reference to the Better Business Bureau may do nicely.

The Way Of The Heart - how to get the word out on these clowns??
Posted by: Ziggy ()
Date: May 22, 2011 11:18PM

Is there any way a person can get the word out on these cult members to stop them doing the cult thing and screwing up peoples lives?

What they do is so wrong, yet they are clever, so trying to retaliate may end up being more in their favor than getting out the truth.

I think "public slander", or character defamation is punishable by court??

I think one has to be very careful, as I stated before, they have as much right to their religion as any church or mosque.

"The Way of The Heart" is scum, and very tricky intelligent scum at that.

Screw up a family, cause arguments, blatantly do mis-treat people rudely, and of course never admit wrong doing - this is "The Way of The Heart".

When you have solved them, they are quite content and happy when they piss you off, as now your the one pissed off, and they like it that way - Giving no participation in argument they leave the room, leaving you nothing, fully knowing they will carry on winning souls and money. I would assume they are quite use to people getting angry with them, which is the reason leaving the room is their best defence, as argument leaves poor efficiency to win more souls. Why would a group like this want to spend time defending their position, when they can spend their time winning souls and making money. Don't expect them to stick around when they have been caught in the act of deception. They do not believe in Critical Thinking, they actually do not believe in logic, and this I know through the grape vine. They set up events so your being entertained, they do the talking, and time out sessions so your overloaded with new thinking, and not in any state to question.

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