Re: Doubts about the Dalai Lama
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: November 05, 2012 12:07AM
A couple of comments from the Guardian article
"Lama Sex Abuse Claims Call Buddhist Taboos into Question"
[www.guardian.co.uk]
Note by Corboy In Bhutan, Drukpa Kunley is honored to this day by a festival.
In 1999, New Yorker magazine had an article about the festival--and described a number of women from America who had come to attend, hoping they might conceive.
"In 1997, Bhutun had 5,363 tourists, each of whom paid a daily fee of two hundred and forty dollars, intentionally steep to keep out backpackers... In the same year, Nepal had 421, 857 visitors"
Susan Orlean, Our Far-Flung Correspondents, “Fertile Ground,” The New Yorker, June 7, 1999, p. 58
[webcache.googleusercontent.com]
Chhime Lhakhang, the temple founded by Bhutan's favorite Buddhist
Saint - Drukpa Kuenley, the "Divine Madman
"Lama Sex Abuse Claims Call Buddhist Taboos into Question"
[www.guardian.co.uk]
Quote
· TheSmokingMan
2 July 2011 2:24AM
As I keep trying to point out to people ... Tibet Buddhism ISN'T strictly speaking Buddhism. It is an animist religion with the sutras grafted on.
Look up Drukpa Kunley(1455 - 1529), the "The Divine Madman of the Dragon Lineage", and realize that this conduct has been going on for hundreds of years. Kunley is the reason Bhutan displays Penis' painted on their houses and the wooden ones hanging from their eves.
Kunley was noted for 'blessing women' with his 'divine thunderbolt of wisdom' and once his performance was over would be paid in beer for his services.
Now people are shocked this is still going on!? He's been venerated for 500 years folks.
Both Beer and Alcohol are banned in the traditional Buddhism recognized in the west. NOT THIS CROWD!!!
I keep telling you that this is not the Buddhism you see in the Karate Kid III where Miyagi meets his three cuddly old monks at a retreat in the USA.
·
· gold63
2 July 2011 2:45AM
Only Buddhism as a religion can deny humanity so thorougly and has done such horrendous things to humanity. The buddha Sakyamuni was a humanist, and not a religion. He was also an activist who wanted to end the caste system in India. When it became buddhism, it became and ism, whether Tibetan Buddhism, or Zen Buddhism or Theravadin Buddhism.
about 500 years after the buddha died the priestly brahmin caste of Indian Hidustani co-opted some of the buddha's teachings but distorted them and made up the rest. And they recreated the caste system more brutally in India than even in Shakyamuni's time.
That's what these lamas are manifesting. Why do you think these Tibetan Lamas are on high elaborate thrones and see themselves as "lviing deities" coming back again and again. This is pure Hindustani guru worship priestly Brahminism.
Not at all what the Buddha taught.
There were some Tibetan lamas that first came here to the west, that taught the authentic dharma, not Lamaism. They took off the robes and got off those thrones and taught us face to face, but that was long ago. And it didn't last long.
Now we have the third-stringer lamas, with little practice , little or no realization , here for the money who have hooked up with the Dalai lama Gelupas, the Gelupas being part of political Tibet in Lhasa, a sect that was always power hungry and killed and destroyed many of the Kagyu and Ningma monasteries to create a hegemony
Not to say that they weren't all VIOLENT, the monks often took up weapons to defend their monasterie. But the Gelupas were never great practioners, but more dry, intellectual, madhyamika types.
Anyway, all this reincarnation and incarnate deity stuff, and all that moralistic twisting of the teachings, could NOT be what the buddha taught, because that is just another way of us believing we can go on and on forever, just like all theist religions and to keep us in a sheeple condition.
Never saying anything angry, never being offensive, and giving up all critical intelligence along the way, or one will create "bad karma" for a future life. Mostly Tibetan Buddhist religionists are focused on their better future life.
The buddha said to Ananda when he died, "let no one be appointed my successo"r, and" let the dharma be your guide", meaning particularly the third noble truth, the cessation of sufffering when we can face the truth of uncertainly, and not grasp at this and that reference point any more to comfort us, and keep us confused, and asleep, because when we can face "uncertainy" then we can start living fully in the moment, fully present NOW.
Note by Corboy In Bhutan, Drukpa Kunley is honored to this day by a festival.
In 1999, New Yorker magazine had an article about the festival--and described a number of women from America who had come to attend, hoping they might conceive.
"In 1997, Bhutun had 5,363 tourists, each of whom paid a daily fee of two hundred and forty dollars, intentionally steep to keep out backpackers... In the same year, Nepal had 421, 857 visitors"
Susan Orlean, Our Far-Flung Correspondents, “Fertile Ground,” The New Yorker, June 7, 1999, p. 58
[webcache.googleusercontent.com]
Chhime Lhakhang, the temple founded by Bhutan's favorite Buddhist
Saint - Drukpa Kuenley, the "Divine Madman
Quote
---from one group doing tours to Bhutun
[webcache.googleusercontent.com]
Every year hundreds of people from all corners of the Bhutan make pilgrimages to Chhime Lhakhang, an ancient monastery near Punakha, dedicated to fertility and founded by Lam Drukpa Kuenley, to pray for children. They get blessed by a symbolic phallus which represents the sign of fertility and other relegious objects of the Lam.
It will take only few stories of the Lam to understand why everyone in this magical kingdom believes that the Lam’s blessings will help a woman concieve.
The ceremony of fertility blessing is central to the annual Jambay Lhakhang Drub, the most popular relegious festival in Bumthang. It takes place every year, in October or November, at Jambay Lhakhang, one of the oldest and most sacred Buddhist temples in Bhutan. Infertile women who wish to conceive come from different parts of the country to get blessed at the ceremony.
The main monk or lama at the ceremony, wearing an interesting mask, prays to the fertility gods and deities, and blesses the women with a symbolic wooden phallus to make them fruitful in the coming year.
Bhutan is a chaste society in which bare legs and shoulders are never seen, affection is never displayed in public, and simplicity and dignified shyness are cherished. On the other hand, all over the country, Bhutanese houses are decorated with most elaborate paintings and sculptures of flying phallus, which is believed to promote fertility and ward off evil spirits. In Tibetan Vajrayana Buddhism (the way of Vajra), the erect male organ also refers symbolically to “Vajra” (Dorji), which is a symbol of concentrated energy. Vajra or Dorji and phurbu, a dragger with a dorji-hilt are the most important ritual implements used by monks and lamas during religious ceremonies to control and destroy dangerous evil spirits.
Over the last few years, some people outside the country has also come to know about Chime Lhakhang and the fertility blessing ceremony in Bumthang.
Few years back, a Japanese woman who had been childless for 13 years visited Chime Lhakhang and received fertility blessing from the temple. Soon afterwards she became pregnant and returned the next year with a beautiful daughter.
An American woman at the age of 46 gave birth to a healhy child after receiving fertility blessings from Chime Lhakhang and Jambay Lhakhang Drub.
Join us on this one-of-a-kind trip, if you want to get blessed with a special child
But, even if you don’t want to participate in the ceremony and try to get pregnant, you will have the rare opportunity to witness a centuries-old traditional ceremony of fertility blessing. In addition, this tour will provide the opportunity to experience many other treasures of this remote mythical land of the Thunder Dragon.
Re: Doubts about the Dalai Lama
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: November 05, 2012 10:48PM
A plea to parents wealthy enough to create a 'special' child by these extreme means:
Teach collaborative skills and basic good manners. Demonstrate those yourself so your kid will see you modeling these qualities.
Some day, your child will go into the world and discover he or she is just another human being alongside other human beings, standing on the same sidewalk pavement.
Learn to stand in line and not grumble. Hurricane Sandy has brought that lesson home.
Train your child to have inner strength so as to meet tragedy and misfortune with steadiness, and be able to meet good fortune and social advantage with that same steadiness.
No one, not even your special child, is so special to be exempt from from old age, sickness and death.
That was the true teaching of Buddha -- and it isnt easy to swallow. Most of us would rather have magic.
Drukpa Kunley is just a shaman/priapus figure who was inducted into the Vajrayana pantheon, so the lamas could successfully convert the Bhutunese.
Teach collaborative skills and basic good manners. Demonstrate those yourself so your kid will see you modeling these qualities.
Some day, your child will go into the world and discover he or she is just another human being alongside other human beings, standing on the same sidewalk pavement.
Learn to stand in line and not grumble. Hurricane Sandy has brought that lesson home.
Train your child to have inner strength so as to meet tragedy and misfortune with steadiness, and be able to meet good fortune and social advantage with that same steadiness.
No one, not even your special child, is so special to be exempt from from old age, sickness and death.
That was the true teaching of Buddha -- and it isnt easy to swallow. Most of us would rather have magic.
Drukpa Kunley is just a shaman/priapus figure who was inducted into the Vajrayana pantheon, so the lamas could successfully convert the Bhutunese.
Re: Doubts about the Dalai Lama
Posted by:
walter1963
()
Date: November 09, 2012 09:46AM
And most importantly learn to think for oneself. Never ever give anyone your power(decision making, thinking) to someone else. No legit spiritual path will ever ask you to give that up. Those that demand, are slave masters, nothing more..
The reality is the guy in the robe whether he is a Roshi, Lama, Rinpoche or Sat guru is either deluded or a schmuck. The last 30 years has been endless parade of lecherous yogi, tulkuls; money grubbing Lamas and Roshis.
There might be some legitimate ones but you won't find them giving workshops or seminars. They shun publicity. The fact is they probably don't want you as a student.
The reality is the guy in the robe whether he is a Roshi, Lama, Rinpoche or Sat guru is either deluded or a schmuck. The last 30 years has been endless parade of lecherous yogi, tulkuls; money grubbing Lamas and Roshis.
There might be some legitimate ones but you won't find them giving workshops or seminars. They shun publicity. The fact is they probably don't want you as a student.
Re: Doubts about the Dalai Lama
Posted by:
Misstyk
()
Date: January 30, 2013 02:26PM
I'm not sure which article this quote is from, or who wrote it, but the first Tibetan lamas to teach in the West were Kalu Rinpoche, Chogyam Trungpa and the 16th Karmapa.Quote
corboy
A couple of comments from the Guardian article
"Lama Sex Abuse Claims Call Buddhist Taboos into Question"
[www.guardian.co.uk]Quote
·
There were some Tibetan lamas that first came here to the west, that taught the authentic dharma, not Lamaism. They took off the robes and got off those thrones and taught us face to face, but that was long ago. And it didn't last long.
...just to put things in perspective. It's not as if there had been some kind of Golden Age of Tibetan Buddhism in the West, when the teachers were honorable and ethical.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2013 02:26PM by Misstyk.
Re: Doubts about the Dalai Lama
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: January 30, 2013 10:27PM
Even in the 1970s some strange alliances were being forged between one of the most important innovators in mind bending tech (Werner Erhard) and the 16th Karmapa and Baba Muktananda.
Werner Erhard, creator of EST (Erhard Seminars Training later renamed The Forum and now named Landmark Education)
Both Est and Landmark have ample citations in the Ross Institute Archives. (See below)
Interesting that Erhard, the founder of all this, played so great a role assisting the 16 th Karmapa while visiting United States.
Werner Erhard and the 16th Karmapa
[webcache.googleusercontent.com]
And Werner Erhard also helped Muktananda visit the US.
[www.google.com]
[www.google.com]
EST
[www.culteducation.com]
The Forum
[www.culteducation.com]
Landmark Education
[www.culteducation.com]
Litigation archives (When Landmark sued the Rick Ross and the Ross Institute and how their suit was dismissed.
[www.culteducation.com]
Werner Erhard, creator of EST (Erhard Seminars Training later renamed The Forum and now named Landmark Education)
Both Est and Landmark have ample citations in the Ross Institute Archives. (See below)
Interesting that Erhard, the founder of all this, played so great a role assisting the 16 th Karmapa while visiting United States.
Werner Erhard and the 16th Karmapa
[webcache.googleusercontent.com]
And Werner Erhard also helped Muktananda visit the US.
[www.google.com]
Quote
Muktananda - Live a happy life by making good choicesSeveral years ago, est founder Werner Erhard sponsored a worldwide tour for
Muktananda which enabled the guru to establish international headquarters in
the ...
zenbuzz.com/muktananda.html - 33k - Cached - Similar pages
Cult Education Forum :: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious ...For readers who are interested in the Werner Erhard 'tech' utilized by
Muktananda and his successors in SY, you can read here exactly how it ...
forum.culteducation.com/read.php?12,90692,page=11 - 26k - Cached - Similar pages
Werner Erhard with Swami Muktananda - Conversations For ...Conversations For Transformation. Essays By Laurence Platt. Inspired By The
Ideas Of Werner Erhard. And More. Werner Erhard with Swami Muktananda ...
www.laurenceplatt.com/wernererhard/werner6.html - 4k - Cached - Similar pages
Swami Muktananda Paramahansa - Dialogue Ireland ResourcesSeveral years ago, est founder Werner Erhard sponsored a worldwide tour for
Muktananda which enabled the guru to establish international headquarters in
the ...
www
Quote
Re: [kagyu] Digest Number 1379 < Prev Next >
Posted By: vlyons123 vlyons123 Offline Send Email
Wed Apr 17, 2002 6:22 am |
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Greetings:
"Merritt, Lu" <lu.merritt@s...> wrote:
> But I thought to myself, perhaps it is really that simple. Perhaps we
> "just decide" which teacher, and so which path, to follow.
Isn't all of life about "just deciding?" Shall I do this, or shall I do
that? Shall I not make a choice at all?
Shall I choose this or that as a temporary stand-in until something (or
someone) better comes along?
Someone once told me that life is all about making decisions, and then
getting to experience the consequences of the choices. I buy that.
I used to be involved in est. I even worked in Werner Erhard's home for a
little while. In that school, they emphasized not so much about "which"
choice, but that making "A" choice and then keeping the commitments and
promises is what's important. Or as Wener would say, "when you keep your
agreements, life works. When you break your agreements, life doesn't work."
So the key is making 'A" commitment whole-heartedly and sticking with it
through the tough times when it's boring, inconvenient, unexciting,
not-new-anymore, difficult, and just god-damned uncomfortable. Werner taught
that our minds will invent all kinds of really good, valid reasons to back
off on making agreements, or bail out of the ones we've made. But we have to
"reinvent" our original intention when we first made the commitment, and
then everyday re-create the intentrion and commitment and then go
re-manifest it in the world.
That's sort of like generating the deity isn't it?
Having said all of the above, I decided to make a big commitment this
week-end and take the Kalachakra initation from Venerable Kirti Tsenshab
Rinpoche, who was one of the Dalai Lamas teachers. You should see this guy's
picture; he's quite elderly and slight and thin and looks like he would just
blow away with the first little breeze. But he has this incredible smile,
and I just know that his "essence" is very, very close to the flame.
I mulled over this decision for some months, as it entails life-long dharma,
tantra, and Kalachakra-specific vows and daily practices for the rest of
this life. I've read several of the recommended books on Kalachakra, so it's
not like I'm completely ignorant about what's involved. My mind went thru
the "Gee, should I sign myself up for this? What if I get bored with it, and
fail to do the pracices?" "Will I rot in Buddha hell for being a bad, lazy
girl?" This lama is Gelug, and I haven't even decided which Buddhist school
I want to associate with. and then I did the vacilation bit between wanting
to do it, but not wanting to feel trapped later on. Avoiding feeling trapped
is one of my ego's favorite little numbers. There's this little voice whose
constant mantra is "get me outta here! I gotta be free!"
Well you know what? None of my mental bullshit matters. What matters is that
"my essence" wants to take this initiation. I'm purposely choosing to get
myself more involved and commited to dharma practice.
and somehow or another, I'll find or create the wherewithall to keep the
vows. and even if I don't do a very good job of it, I have the honest
intention to "recreate" my intention if I fall short or backslide.
Thank-you Werner for teaching me about making A choice! and about the real
feelings of freedom that comes with freely recreating my intentions from
moment to moment. Heck, I'm "re-creating" every monment of my life as I go
along anyway ....
No doubt, you've probably all taken the Kalachakra or similar tantra
commitment, but this my first. I feel like that little 11-year girl I used
to be way, way back when (I'm 55 now) I first confirmed by the Episcopal
bishop in Dallas. Gosh, I haven't remembered that in ages.
thanks for letting me blather on and on in this note.
May all of you stay in good health and be free of suffering and the causes
of suffering
and find the wherewithall to make and keep your agreements.
Cheers
Virginia
Quote
Re: [kagyu] Digest Number 1379 < Prev Next >
Posted By: remi132001 remi132001 Offline Send Email
Wed Apr 17, 2002 8:55 pm |
> I used to be involved in est. I even worked in Werner Erhard's home for a
> little while.
>
You might be interested to know Virginia that Werner Erhard had a
connection to the 16th Karmapa and was a major sponsor of His Holiness's first
visit to the US in the 1970s.
Tsering
[www.google.com]
EST
[www.culteducation.com]
The Forum
[www.culteducation.com]
Landmark Education
[www.culteducation.com]
Litigation archives (When Landmark sued the Rick Ross and the Ross Institute and how their suit was dismissed.
[www.culteducation.com]
Re: Doubts about the Dalai Lama
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: January 30, 2013 10:40PM
Stories from the Karmapas visit to the US during those golden years. Study the tone of the stories. Reverential, as though told by peasants reporting apparitions. Many of these persons had been rebelling against 'The Man' and 'The Establishment' then were grovelling.
[webcache.googleusercontent.com]
(many more stories are available--these are just a sample. Anyone expert in the mechanics of trance induction should take a look at a sample of them just in case the karmapa was using any trance tricks. Keep in mind Americans tend to lose perspective when seeing anyone on a glittering throne in glittering robes with attendants. Keep in mind that every time the Queen of England has visited, the US protocol officers have to remind us that American citizens are under NO obligation to curtsy or bow to the queen. But..some insist on doing so. Which would perturb if not outrage Sam Adams, Thomas Paine, Ben Franklin and all the men who risked being hanged drawn and quartered as traitors by putting their signatures to the Declaration of Independance. )
Finally there is this story. IMO, from my unenlightened skeptics perspective, it reads like a pissing contest between males contesting dominance.
[webcache.googleusercontent.com]
(many more stories are available--these are just a sample. Anyone expert in the mechanics of trance induction should take a look at a sample of them just in case the karmapa was using any trance tricks. Keep in mind Americans tend to lose perspective when seeing anyone on a glittering throne in glittering robes with attendants. Keep in mind that every time the Queen of England has visited, the US protocol officers have to remind us that American citizens are under NO obligation to curtsy or bow to the queen. But..some insist on doing so. Which would perturb if not outrage Sam Adams, Thomas Paine, Ben Franklin and all the men who risked being hanged drawn and quartered as traitors by putting their signatures to the Declaration of Independance. )
Quote
. LEAVING SAN FRANCISCO; At the conclusion of the West Coast visit, it was Werner Erhard and EST’s turn to take over hosting His Holiness from Vajradhatu.
(Vaajradhatu was Trungpa's center)
We said our tearful goodbyes and the next day headed to the SF airport to return to Boulder. Seems that EST neglected to tell HHK that Trungpa Rinpoche was departing that very day. When he found that out they were driving on the freeway, and His Holiness demanded that they turn the car around and head directly to the airport. The TWA flight was temporarily delayed because our bags, in separate cars, were late in arriving. Just as the gate personnel were barring the jetway (we still did not have our luggage but wanted to make our flight) suddenly there was a commotion behind us. We turned around to see HHK standing in an electric cart like Ben Hur. He and JKR strode right past us, past the security guard and boarded the airplane. The befuddled guard then blocked the passage again. A few minutes passed and we saw HH and Jamgon Rinpoche re-appear and we again parted like the Red Sea. Having said their goodbyes they departed. And our bags showed up and we were able to board after all
Quote
14 July 2010
On His Holiness's first visit to North America in 1974, which started in New York, we held a reception for him at the landmark Plaza Hotel. Because he was travelling on a Bhutanese diplomatic passport, and through whatever magic Trungpa Rinpoche conjured, His Holiness's motorcade had a police escort. The two policemen who accompanied him came in and stood impassively at the back of the room as a blessing line passed in front of His Holiness on his throne. To my eye they looked like tough New York Irish cops directly out of Central Casting, and I could only imagine what they were thinking to have pulled this detail. As the line drew to a close, I noticed one glance at the other questioningly; then they both slowly removed their hats and went up to receive His Holiness's blessing. In that shocking moment I saw an irresistible force in a very big world
Finally there is this story. IMO, from my unenlightened skeptics perspective, it reads like a pissing contest between males contesting dominance.
Quote
. HOLLYWOOD HILLS: HHK’s secretary arranged for HH and Jamgon Kongtrul to pay a call on a “method actor guru” in his house high up in the hills. The deal was that he would call out a question such as “Are you bored?” or “Are you angry?” to which one of his students who were seated at his feet would answer “I’m bored” or “I’m angry” in a wide range of emotions. This continued for some time, with HHK and JKR seated in chairs observing. Finally JKR was asked to prompt a “student” in the technique he had been witnessing. Jamgon Rinpoche chose the phrase “Are you rainbow body?” and directly asked that question repeatedly. The hapless student became nonplused, answering repeatedly “I am rainbow body.” After a while, JKR would look at his watch while asking the question over and over. Finally HHK interrupted and instructed everyone to repeat after him: OM MANI PADME HUM after which it became apparent that the acting director had lost compete control.
Re: Doubts about the Dalai Lama
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: January 30, 2013 11:05PM
Perspective on Dharamsala-
One monk pointed out that the poorest indigenous Indians living near Dharamsala needed aid, too.
[www.dailymail.co.uk]
From: A jealous husband, a pregnant wife and murder in the land of the hippiesby DAVID JONES
Last updated at 08:51 11 December 2006
[www.dailymail.co.uk]
One monk pointed out that the poorest indigenous Indians living near Dharamsala needed aid, too.
Quote
Miss Owen had arrived here by an altogether more circuitous route. The younger daughter of a former university vice-principal, she trained as a nurse, then as a web designer, before taking a career break for what she calls 'personal redevelopment'.
In early 2004, she was about to start work as a teacher in Dharamsala when she met a charismatic Bhuddist monk named Jamyang. So much aid was being given to the exiled Tibetan community, he said, but no one was helping the poorest indigenous Indians, who lived in an appalling slum.
Quote
...In an area which has seen 19 murders in the past year (2006), and a rise in assaults on travellers, these possibilities seem worryingly under-explored by the police
[www.dailymail.co.uk]
From: A jealous husband, a pregnant wife and murder in the land of the hippiesby DAVID JONES
Last updated at 08:51 11 December 2006
[www.dailymail.co.uk]
Re: Doubts about the Dalai Lama
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: February 01, 2013 05:21AM
A report from someone who was led to believe she'd be assigned by a volunteer agency to assist kids in Dharamsala to learn English.
Instead, she was assigned, with one other young woman, to a monastery. The entire article is well worth reading.
[thisisindiamadeleine.blogspot.com]
(quote)"This is bullshit. I’m barely 19. I’ve never traveled by myself before, let alone to a third world country. It’s not like I WANTED to come to a fucking monastery. My program told me I was going to be teaching English to kids in Dharamsala. This is not Dharamsala. And I’m not teaching kids (unless you count baby monks). It’s not like I have ANY TEACHING EXPERIENCE whatsoever.
"And now I’m expected to teach 3 classes a day to monks who have absolutely terrible English. Most of the time I can’t understand what the fuck they’re saying because their pronunciation is so awful. Plus ‘private tutoring’ to every Lobsang, Norbu and Tenzin that waltzes into my room. Oh and btw, I’m not getting paid. That’s why it’s called volunteering…
" I fucking hate rice and daal. I’ve lost at least 5, probably closer to 10 pounds since I’ve been here, (The author was there for 3 to four months) simply because the food is so bad. I’m pretty much living on nutella and chai.
"And I have to pretend everything is wonderful and perfect whenever Yugyel asks. ‘The food is great, thanks!’ ‘I’m so glad we finally have running water!’
"I don’t even want to talk about the Rinpoche guy. First of all, I have to be all deferential and bow to him, bc he’s like a demigod to these monks. I am NOT a Buddhist. I do not believe that Rinpoche is a supremely enlightened being.
"I think he’s a man.
"Who could stand to lose a little weight (that’s right, I went there). But he’s the head of the monastery and I want him to like me so I have to pretend everything’s perfect. I mean – I’ve been blessed by his presence right?
"Wrong.
"Did I mention we have 0 resources? In my classroom I have a blackboard. And several pieces of chalk. This is all. No books, no curriculum, no instructions. Here’s your class. Ok go. This is the first time English has been taught at (the) monastery." (unquote)
(Corboy note #1 A person can become malnourished on that kind of diet and more susceptible to illness as a result. Its no joke. Nicolai Grozni, author of Turtle Feet, who lived in Dharamsala for 3 years, and ate the local diet, contracted ameobic dysentary and had to go to hospital.And in Bodhgaya, further south, he contracted malaria and needed inpatient treatment. )
(Corboy note #2)Peregrine Hodson, in his memoir, Under a Sickle Moon, quoted a saying, "Beware of fat people in thin countries." The fat person is getting a monopoly on scarce resources. Here's the author, losing 5 pounds in 3 months, eating rice and dal, donating her labors to teach English at the place for the first time, and, from her description, the Rinpoche dude is sleek bodied. Important to teach these monks English. That way, they can teach Westerners, and bring in more dollars, euros and pound sterling to The Cause.
Lessons
* If you go on a volunteer assignment, get it in writing where you will be assigned.
*You are donating energy and attention and work as a volunteer. Dont let anyone mis-use you. You are not being an ego driven Westerner to insist on that kind of basic respect. Volunteering isnt slavery. Dont let it become so.
**Responsibility is not satisfying unless accompanied by what I call the Three R's -- Resources (the right equipment), Respect and Respite (adequate sleep and time for recreation and recollection)
* Go to the work assignment using transportation you have hired. If, say you are a girl or woman and find you've been assigned to a sitaution that is remote, and where you are vastly outnumbered by males, especially young males, turn around and leave. Its a gender ratio that is not safe in First World countries and even less safe elsewhere. A responsible father or mother would not want a daughter in such a situation, and a young man could encounter safety risks as well. (Kalu Rinpoche's successor as tulku was sexually assaulted by the other men in the monastery.
The person who wrote this account is fortunate that the worst she encountered was a crap diet and over work. It wouldve been easy for just one rogue monk to edge her into an isolated room where horrors could have been committed.
Instead, she was assigned, with one other young woman, to a monastery. The entire article is well worth reading.
[thisisindiamadeleine.blogspot.com]
(quote)"This is bullshit. I’m barely 19. I’ve never traveled by myself before, let alone to a third world country. It’s not like I WANTED to come to a fucking monastery. My program told me I was going to be teaching English to kids in Dharamsala. This is not Dharamsala. And I’m not teaching kids (unless you count baby monks). It’s not like I have ANY TEACHING EXPERIENCE whatsoever.
"And now I’m expected to teach 3 classes a day to monks who have absolutely terrible English. Most of the time I can’t understand what the fuck they’re saying because their pronunciation is so awful. Plus ‘private tutoring’ to every Lobsang, Norbu and Tenzin that waltzes into my room. Oh and btw, I’m not getting paid. That’s why it’s called volunteering…
" I fucking hate rice and daal. I’ve lost at least 5, probably closer to 10 pounds since I’ve been here, (The author was there for 3 to four months) simply because the food is so bad. I’m pretty much living on nutella and chai.
"And I have to pretend everything is wonderful and perfect whenever Yugyel asks. ‘The food is great, thanks!’ ‘I’m so glad we finally have running water!’
"I don’t even want to talk about the Rinpoche guy. First of all, I have to be all deferential and bow to him, bc he’s like a demigod to these monks. I am NOT a Buddhist. I do not believe that Rinpoche is a supremely enlightened being.
"I think he’s a man.
"Who could stand to lose a little weight (that’s right, I went there). But he’s the head of the monastery and I want him to like me so I have to pretend everything’s perfect. I mean – I’ve been blessed by his presence right?
"Wrong.
"Did I mention we have 0 resources? In my classroom I have a blackboard. And several pieces of chalk. This is all. No books, no curriculum, no instructions. Here’s your class. Ok go. This is the first time English has been taught at (the) monastery." (unquote)
(Corboy note #1 A person can become malnourished on that kind of diet and more susceptible to illness as a result. Its no joke. Nicolai Grozni, author of Turtle Feet, who lived in Dharamsala for 3 years, and ate the local diet, contracted ameobic dysentary and had to go to hospital.And in Bodhgaya, further south, he contracted malaria and needed inpatient treatment. )
(Corboy note #2)Peregrine Hodson, in his memoir, Under a Sickle Moon, quoted a saying, "Beware of fat people in thin countries." The fat person is getting a monopoly on scarce resources. Here's the author, losing 5 pounds in 3 months, eating rice and dal, donating her labors to teach English at the place for the first time, and, from her description, the Rinpoche dude is sleek bodied. Important to teach these monks English. That way, they can teach Westerners, and bring in more dollars, euros and pound sterling to The Cause.
Lessons
* If you go on a volunteer assignment, get it in writing where you will be assigned.
*You are donating energy and attention and work as a volunteer. Dont let anyone mis-use you. You are not being an ego driven Westerner to insist on that kind of basic respect. Volunteering isnt slavery. Dont let it become so.
**Responsibility is not satisfying unless accompanied by what I call the Three R's -- Resources (the right equipment), Respect and Respite (adequate sleep and time for recreation and recollection)
* Go to the work assignment using transportation you have hired. If, say you are a girl or woman and find you've been assigned to a sitaution that is remote, and where you are vastly outnumbered by males, especially young males, turn around and leave. Its a gender ratio that is not safe in First World countries and even less safe elsewhere. A responsible father or mother would not want a daughter in such a situation, and a young man could encounter safety risks as well. (Kalu Rinpoche's successor as tulku was sexually assaulted by the other men in the monastery.
The person who wrote this account is fortunate that the worst she encountered was a crap diet and over work. It wouldve been easy for just one rogue monk to edge her into an isolated room where horrors could have been committed.
Re: Doubts about the Dalai Lama
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: February 03, 2013 01:46AM
There appears to be an important difference in mindset between Western European and American culture and that of Vajrayana, which in turn affects Kagyu, which in turn affects Ole N's students.
In the West, we are brought up with a cultural expectation that those in authority actually carry a greater obligation to behave in a moral manner, in private as well as in public.
Yes, yes, yes. Leaders often fall short of this, but the expectation inculcated that in the West there is a cultural norm that holds authority figures accountable to a higher standard of conduct, in private as well as when exercising their public functions.
As an example, here is what is expected of officers in the US Navy. Items that are private conduct will be place in italic font for emphasis.
By contrast,appears that in Vajrayana one can make a distinction between a lamas public behavior as a teacher and regard that teacher's behavior in private as something that can be separated from his or her public function as a teacher.
Westerners who come into Vajrayana situations cannot help but assume and trust that a Buddhist teacher's private behavior will be in synch with public behavior. That is the Western cultural norm.
Instead, listen to this.
To quote from below "Yes, Trungpa, Sogyal, Shamar, etc. may be seen as having weaknesses and shortcomings and perhaps could be said to have set a poor examples, however I personally think that they at least have shown a degree of theoretical knowledge which means that they could point their students in the right direction. "
And
"Equally with Nydahl, for me personally, I have nothing to say about his sexual preferences or whatever his proclivities may be in his spare time - [for me, the behaviour of these individuals outside of their teachings is a concern only for those who focus on personality rather than the Buddhadharma - its only when these personal opinions become touted as truth that an issue arises"
And regarding Ole N
What appears to make this topic (Ole N and by extension, the Kagyu establishment from which Ole N derives prestige) is that it appears that those loyal to Vajrayana/Kagyu cogntive strategy of regarding a teacher's public teaching function as distinct from whatever behavior that same teacher does in private, out of public gaze.
In the West, we are brought up with a cultural expectation that those in authority actually carry a greater obligation to behave in a moral manner, in private as well as in public.
Yes, yes, yes. Leaders often fall short of this, but the expectation inculcated that in the West there is a cultural norm that holds authority figures accountable to a higher standard of conduct, in private as well as when exercising their public functions.
As an example, here is what is expected of officers in the US Navy. Items that are private conduct will be place in italic font for emphasis.
Quote
Text. Article 133 Uniform Code of Military Justice.
“Any commissioned officer, cadet, or midshipman who is convicted of conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.”
Elements.
(1) That the accused did or omitted to do certain acts; and
(2) That, under the circumstances, these acts or omissions constituted conduct unbecoming an officer and gentleman.
Explanation.
(1) Gentleman. As used in this article, “gentleman” includes both male and female commissioned officers, cadets, and midshipmen.
(2) Nature of offense.
Conduct violative of this article is action or behavior in an official capacity which, in dishonoring or disgracing the person as an officer, seriously compromises the officer’s character as a gentleman, or action or behavior in an unofficial or private capacity which, in dishonoring or disgracing the officer personally, seriously compromises the person’s standing as an officer.
There are certain moral attributes common to the ideal officer and the perfect gentleman, a lack of which is indicated by acts of dishonesty, unfair dealing, indecency, indecorum, lawlessness, injustice, or cruelty. Not everyone is or can be expected to meet unrealistically high moral standards, but there is a limit of tolerance based on customs of the service and military necessity below which the personal standards of an officer, cadet, or midshipman cannot fall without seriously compromising the person’s standing as an officer, cadet, or midshipman or the person’s character as a gentleman.
This article prohibits conduct by a commissioned officer, cadet or midshipman which, taking all the circumstances into consideration, is thus compromising. This article includes acts made punishable by any other article, provided these acts amount to conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman.
Thus, a commissioned officer who steals property violates both this article and Article 121. Whenever the offense charged is the same as a specific offense set forth in this Manual, the elements of proof are the same as those set forth in the paragraph which treats that specific offense, with the additional requirement that the act or omission constitutes conduct unbecoming an officer and gentleman.
(3) Examples of offenses. Instances of violation of this article include knowingly making a false official statement; dishonorable failure to pay a debt; cheating on an exam; opening and reading a letter of another without authority; using insulting or defamatory language to another officer in that officer’s presence or about that officer to other military persons; being drunk and disorderly in a public place; public association with known prostitutes; committing or attempting to commit a crime involving moral turpitude; and failing without good cause to support the officer’s family.
By contrast,appears that in Vajrayana one can make a distinction between a lamas public behavior as a teacher and regard that teacher's behavior in private as something that can be separated from his or her public function as a teacher.
Westerners who come into Vajrayana situations cannot help but assume and trust that a Buddhist teacher's private behavior will be in synch with public behavior. That is the Western cultural norm.
Instead, listen to this.
To quote from below "Yes, Trungpa, Sogyal, Shamar, etc. may be seen as having weaknesses and shortcomings and perhaps could be said to have set a poor examples, however I personally think that they at least have shown a degree of theoretical knowledge which means that they could point their students in the right direction. "
And
"Equally with Nydahl, for me personally, I have nothing to say about his sexual preferences or whatever his proclivities may be in his spare time - [for me, the behaviour of these individuals outside of their teachings is a concern only for those who focus on personality rather than the Buddhadharma - its only when these personal opinions become touted as truth that an issue arises"
And regarding Ole N
What appears to make this topic (Ole N and by extension, the Kagyu establishment from which Ole N derives prestige) is that it appears that those loyal to Vajrayana/Kagyu cogntive strategy of regarding a teacher's public teaching function as distinct from whatever behavior that same teacher does in private, out of public gaze.
Quote
http://forum.culteducation.com/read.php?12,59830,112717#msg-112717Quote
July 19, 2012 04:41PM
Suenam
Quote:(warrenz wrote)
But the real point here is not whether Shamar acts like Ole but that he clearly supports him even though he knows what goes on in DW. It is absurd for Shamar students to post on this forum, wringing their hands about how terrible Ole is, when Shamar provides letters of support that excuse Nydahl and shield him from criticism and when Shamar and Thaye Dorje visits DW centres and pocket the donations. He is, I am truly sorry to say, a hypocrite. That may be hard to hear but I have not seen any credible argument put forward here that would excuse his behavior.
(Suenam replied.)Thanks for your post - it is insightful and helps to clarify the relations between these parties.
I'm not sure who you are referring to as Shamar students.
Personally, I think it's important to differentiate between the person of the teacher and the teaching itself .As I said in one of my earliest posts, Nydahl as an individual is not the issue here, it is the fact that he carries such influence and claims to represent true Dharma.
(text omitted for brevity)
Equally with Nydahl, for me personally, I have nothing to say about his sexual preferences or whatever his proclivities may be in his spare time - [for me, the behaviour of these individuals outside of their teachings is a concern only for those who focus on personality rather than the Buddhadharma - its only when these personal opinions become touted as truth that an issue arises.
[forum.culteducation.com]Quote
July 20, 2012 07:22AM
Quote: Sceptic Watcher I think that despite him teaching Dharma correctly, he is a bad teacher because all those other factors don't match. It's the same as with many other gurus who claim crazy wisdom (see Chögyam Trungpa, Ösel Tendzin).
(Suenam)My perception of this is completely different. Yes, Trungpa, Sogyal, Shamar, etc. may be seen as having weaknesses and shortcomings and perhaps could be said to have set a poor examples, however I personally think that they at least have shown a degree of theoretical knowledge which means that they could point their students in the right direction.
To anyone wishing to learn about Buddhism I would recommend any of their books just as enthusiastically as I would warn against reading Nydahl's.
So...if Trungpa, Soygal, Shamar etc "may be seen as having weaknesses and shortcomings and perhaps could be said to have set poor examples" they'they exhibt' a degree of theoretical knowledge that could point their students in the right direction', that offsets the weakenesses?
This is all very different from the Uniform Code of Military Justice:Quote
Conduct violative of this article is action or behavior in an official capacity which, in dishonoring or disgracing the person as an officer, seriously compromises the officer’s character as a gentleman, or action or behavior in an unofficial or private capacity which, in dishonoring or disgracing the officer personally, seriously compromises the person’s standing as an officer.
So, an interesting contrast in cultures.
In matters of Buddhadharma, once one is a teacher, it appears to me that there are no limits of tolerance for teacher misbehavior. Unlike the US military, it appears that what makes tthat teacher does in private can be seen as compromising that persons character or standing as a teacher.
For US military, there are limits beyond which an officer cannot go, not even in private behavior, without compromising his her character and standing.Quote
Not everyone is or can be expected to meet unrealistically high moral standards, but there is a limit of tolerance based on customs of the service and military necessity below which the personal standards of an officer, cadet, or midshipman cannot fall without seriously compromising the person’s standing as an officer, cadet, or midshipman or the person’s character as a gentleman.
So, here is one question we can hammer on.
Is there anything Ole N could do that would clearly cancel out his teaching authority? Even cancel out the times when he taught good theory?
You see, its the good theoretical teachings that attract people in the first place.
If someone misbehaving in private attracts followers by excellent public teachings, and they are led, by those private teachings to be invited into the private domain where that teacher, so excellent verbally in public might misbehave to them in private--
I contend there is NO way one can separate a teachers public personality and excellent theoretical teaching on Buddhadharma from problematic ways that same teacher is behaving in private.
In the case of officers, The US Navy doesn't attempt that kind of separation between public behavior and private behavior
If an officer gambles privately, off duty, with a civilian, and fails to pay his or her gambling debts, and the civilian complains to that officer's superiors, that officer is considered to be in violation of Article 133. He or she has done an injury to the civilian and has also impugned the reputation of the Navy and impugned the collective reputation of brother and sister officers.
There is no tradition in the Navy of rationalizing officer misconduct as crazy wise behavior.
Re: Doubts about the Dalai Lama
Posted by:
Misstyk
()
Date: February 05, 2013 02:14PM
For that matter, there's no tradition in Western religions of rationalizing priestly misconduct as crazy wisdom.Quote
corboy
There is no tradition in the Navy of rationalizing officer misconduct as crazy wise behavior.
Corboy, re: Sogyal having deep theoretical knowledge, you might want to check the Sogyal thread. His Tibetan Book of Living and Dying was ghost-written by a couple of graduate students of Tibetan Buddhism, at least one of whom was a devotee of Sogyal's, Andrew Harvey. If you look around the internet, you'll run into accounts by observers at Sogyal's "teachings" that say he doesn't know what he's talking about, beyond simplistic pablum, and he's not able to answer students' questions. When he's asked a question he's not able to answer, he ridicules the student instead, as some kind of anti-ego teaching, to cover up for his ignorance. Anytime a teacher if verbally abusive in response to a question, it's not a good sign. Sogyal is a total fraud.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/05/2013 02:15PM by Misstyk.
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