Debunking Samael Aun Weor
Date: December 19, 2010 04:03AM

Continuing from thread: []

Final exams are over and it's now time to share what I have found and start tearing this doctrine down piece by piece and help people come out of this phenomenon if they have been having strong doubts. It's not much, but it's a start.

Note: I fluctuate between Samael Aun Weor (or just "Aun Weor") and Victor Manuel Gomez Rodriguez (or just "Rodriguez") a lot, but I'm referring to the same person.

Other note: Debunking this body of teachings has gotten me interested in debunking other works as well, such as VM Rabolu's. I think I'll leave Mark Prtichard's group alone, as I see that enough is being done on the end of the people at the Movements of Gnostics Blog. From what I've read, all I can say is: "Geez."


[Start of current research]

Point # 1 from Samael Aun Weor - A new ice age (instead of global warming) is coming!

From his lecture about Alcyone (aka the distant radioactive star in the Pleaides that will cause eternal night/day depending on the circumstances and will annihilate people who aren't "spiritually advanced enough")

There are a few translations of this lecture, one version is called "Alcyone and Negative Emotions" by one group.


“The poles are melting, and with the radiation of Alcyone, this melt down will be precipitated.  The ice will invade the whole north and south; only the equatorial zone will be tolerable.”

“A new glaciation is coming!”

What my research has found # 1

My father has recently stated that when he was a child in the 1960s and a teen in the 70s, people were worried about a new ice age and that the world would get colder (as opposed to warmer). That prompted me to do a good old-fashioned Google search, finding this in the process:


Dated Monday, June 24 1974, this was around the time Samael Aun Weor had his big empire going in Latin America. Many modern Gnostics would argue today that the global warming caused by the "attraction of fire from our core by Hercolubus" (the planet six times bigger than Jupiter that will destroy us, according to Samael) would come first then the new Ice Age.

Quote from "The Great Rebellion":

"By the year Two Thousand some regions of the planet Earth will be hotter, not because of the use of electric energy but because of its overuse. This will contribute to the process of Revolution of the Earth's Axes. Soon the Poles will become the Earth's equator and the equator will become the poles.

The Poles have already begun to thaw out and a new Great Flood is coming, preceded by fire.

Forthcoming decades will see an increase in "Carbon Dioxide" which will form a thick layer around the Earth's atmosphere.

Regrettably, such a filter or layer, will absorb thermal radiation and will act as a fatal greenhouse.

The Earth's climate will become hotter in many places and the heat will make the ice in the Poles melt, thus causing a shocking rise in the level of the oceans."

Which is it? I thought there was a fatal ice age coming? The Great Rebellion was published in 1975 but the Alcyone Lecture is dated 1977, according to my research! What caused him to change his opinion so quickly? I thought he was an all-knowing master…


Point # 2 from Samael Aun Weor - Alcyone will irradiate us! (Even though it's 440 light years away!)

Also from his lecture about Alcyone


“It was in the year 1974 when three astronauts (who were gravitating around the earth) reported a type of radiation or a type of unknown energy, unsuspected by official science.”

“Many will not resist the radiation and will die!” (So that Hercolubus will wipe out the rest of them, since he would have written himself into a corner)

What my research has found # 2

Articles I have found from the era are these, talking about astronauts seeing flashes of light in space:



Quote from the second article:

"Following the lunar missions, measurements were performed on the Skylab (1974), and during the Apollo-Soyuz Test Project (ASTP) in 1975.

The Apollo results are mostly summarized into three points: (i) almost everybody perceived LF (with a single exception: the Command Module pilot of Apollo 16); (ii) the rate was quite high (an average of about 14 in 1 h); and (iii) there was an impressive difference between the rate of LF perception during translunar coast (TLC) and during transearth coast (TEC), the former being about more than 60% higher than the latter. Astronauts also reported that the LF during TEC were much less brilliant.

The ALFMED detector provided the first identification of ion-candidates as the cause of LF perception. Analysis of the data showed two candidates heavier than oxygen (Osborne et al 1975). A later analysis (Fazio et al 1970) proposed Cherenkov radiation […]"

This is interesting, because the rest of the article pretty much talks about how astronauts have seen flashes of light which have been mostly proposed as nothing but cosmic rays/ passing through the eyes and creating these flashes.

Cherenkov radiation was first described in 1958 (according to the Wikipedia article) and does exist, but it is not the bugaboo that Victor Manuel Gomez Rodriguez proposes it to be. A Google search on your end saves me time typing about Cherenkov radiation. If this is indeed the radiation that Aun Weor is referring to, then it can be recreated in a lab and is not dangerous in the sense that Aun Weor implies. I don't see eternal night or day because of these experiments, do you?

More quotes from the Alcyone lecture:

"We have been told that the Sun that shines upon us is the seventh sun that rotates around this star Alcyone. Naturally, this would not be admitted by the wise men of official science, but we, the esoterists, do not ignore the reality concerning the significance of that great sun.

A great organization of worlds exist around Alcyone. There are seven suns and each one of them shines and gives life to its own planets and its satellites (which rotate in their respective orbits around each one of these suns). We cannot deny that our Sun has its own group of worlds or planets that it shines upon and gives life to.

When one comprehends the form in which these system of suns are organized and how they rotate around their gravitational centers, one then advances greatly in the field of knowledge.

The Pleiades have been cited by the sacred scriptures, by the Bible, and by many esoteric teachings. Alcyone is precisely the principal sun of the Pleiades, and around it seven suns gravitate (our sun being the seventh one which rotates around Alcyone)."

According to my research, the Pleiades traditionally had seven stars that were visible (though mainly six are visible), but there are many more, according to the source quoted below. And that depending on the conditions, there can be more than six visible, which is the source for all this confusion, giving Aun Weor the chance to manipulate the totally unsuspecting.

Link: []

"We have been told that the Sun that shines upon us is the seventh sun that rotates around this star Alcyone."

Who told you, exactly? The divine? The white lodge? Unlike me, he never cited sources. He might have passed away in 1977, but his doctrine should be held accountable and scrutinized.

It's absolutely ridiculous to think that a constellation visible from Earth would include our own Sun.


Point # 3 from Samael Aun Weor - The changing seasons are the signs of the end times because the Count of St. Germain said so (P.S. - Contradiction)

Quote (Again from the Alcyone lecture!):

“The Count of Saint Germain said, ‘The seasons of spring and summer will be the first to be altered.’”

This comes from the book "The Comte de St. Germain" by Isabel Cooper-Oakley (in the public domain and available here []). And, man, not only does he make his case from this book that we're all doomed, but wait until the end of this point… I have something very interesting to share…

Here's the original quote from "The Comte of St. Germain" []:

"St. Germain then gradually passed Into a solemn mood. For a few seconds he became rigid as a statue, his eyes, which were always expressive beyond words, became dull and colourless. Presently, however, his whole being became reanimated. He made a movement with his hand as if in signal of his departure, then said: 'I am leaving (ich scheide); do not visit me. Once again will you see me. To-morrow night I am off; I am much needed in Constantinople; then in England, there to prepare two inventions which you will have in the next century--trains and steamboats. These will be needed in Germany. The seasons will gradually change--first the spring, then the summer. It is the gradual cessation of time itself, as the announcement of the end of the cycle. I see it all; astrologers and meteorologists know nothing, believe me; one needs to have studied in the Pyramids as I have studied. Towards the end of this century I shall disappear out of Europe, and betake myself to the region of the Himalayas. I will rest; I must rest. Exactly in eighty-five years will people again set eyes on me."

This account of Saint Germain by the German writer Franz Gräffer was written 50 years after the so-called encounter, which is mentioned shortly after the quoted text. This set up the pretense for Rodriguez (Aun Weor) to talk about how around World War II (around 150 years after this "encounter"), this one guy happened to meet the Count of Saint Germain who was on a boat to eventually go to Tibet! This was from a transcript from a radio interview, I believe. One of the groups I was in had a translation that was different from another, and another, and so forth. The only one with consistency is the original Spanish version, but that's beyond the point…

By the way, modern trains were invented in the 1700s in America, according to this source [], but the statement by Gräffer was written, as shown above, was some time after the encounter, destroying any credibility he might have had.

The real kicker…

I was working on a translation project for one of the groups, since I know Spanish fairly well and since we also analyzed translations of book from other groups for accuracy. We saw that one book was mistranslated and I started work on one book called "Ejercicios de Lamaseria" (Exercises of the Lamasery) in the original Spanish:

Original quote in Spanish:

"Es pues absurdo afirmar que los Grandes Maestros del Tibet sean vegetarianos. Cuando el gran iniciado San Germán, Príncipe Rakoczy, el Gran Maestro de la Logia Blanca que dirige el rayo de la política mundial, trabajó durante la época de Luis XV, para hablar más claro, no se manifestó como vegetariano, lo vieron en los festines comiendo de todo; algunos hasta comentan cómo saboreaba la carne de pollo, por ejemplo. ¿De dónde ha salido, pues, esta cosa del vegetarianismo?"

My translation:

"It is then absurd to affirm that the great master of Tibet are vegetarian. When the great initiate Saint Germain, Prince Rakoczy, the great master of the white lodge who leads the ray of world politics, worked during the epoch of Louis XV, to speak more clearly, did not manifest himself as a vegetarian, he was seen at the festivals eating everything; some even commenting on how he savored chicken meat, for example. From where, then, did this thing called vegetarianism come?"

Now, the final blow to this argument, from the very same book "The Comte de St. Germain" by Isabel Cooper-Oakley [].

"The same writer, who later became one of his devoted students, testifies to the fact that M. de St. Germain ate no meat, drank no wine, and lived according to a strict régime. Louis XV. gave him a suite of rooms in the royal Château de Chambord, and he constantly spent whole evenings at Versailles with the King and the royal family."

Talk about contradiction! How embarrassing it would have been for Aun Weor if the Internet had existed back in the 70s… I know that some modern gnostics would reply, "But the author was mistaken in the second quote! Samael knew everything better than those people!"

I would reply: "But if you're going to quote from the same source, make sure you don't contradict yourself!"

Point # 4 from Samael Aun Weor - Mummies and the Curse of the Pharaohs


At 6:42 in this video, (Doctor!) Samael Aun Weor says: "As an example we have the case of the mummy of Tutankhamen, the twenty-two archaeologists who dared to profane such a sepulcher died. Let the modern populace know that ancient people were wiser."

What my research has found #4:

In the book "King Tut's Curse!" by Jacqueline Morley and David Antram, it is stated that one of the first to enter the tomb, Lord Carnavon's daughter (Lord Carnavron was someone who died in 1923 four months after entering the tomb due to an infection, starting this whole mummies curse mess) lived until 1980. Samael Aun Weor said that all 22 archaeologists who opened the tome died but the archaeologist who discovered and opened the tomb (Howard Carter) lived until 1939, dying from lymphoma.

As many of us former serious Samael Aun Weor students know, in a lot of his works, Samael Aun Weor said that cancer is a result of fornication (or "spilling the seed" too much, according to him, which is language loading).


If Victor Manuel Gomez Rodriguez (aka. - Samael) was an enlightened master, how can he explain the information of "King Tut's Curse!"

The possible reply of modern gnosticism: "The forces of the black lodge are at work! It's false information!"

[End of current research]


Some personal notes:

It's sad that "The forces of the black lodge are trying to spread misinformation." is their fallback for when things start to fall apart.

I left these teachings after nearly a decade of trying really hard to apply them in my life, with no discernible progress. I was (and still am) single, just like many of the men who were in the groups. Women were always somewhat rare, and I was never "worthy enough" to get "divine help" to find an "alchemy" partner.

I'm glad that I didn't stick around long enough to remain celibate the rest of my life.

While we're on the subject of suppression of the sexual expression, let's examine the language loading of “Fornication”:

“The original sin of our first parents was the crime of spilling the semen. That is fornication.” - The Perfect Matrimony

“Not only does one fornicate physically, but fornication also exists in the mental and astral worlds. Those who engage in lusty conversations, those who read pornographic magazines, those who attend movie houses where passionate erotic films are shown waste enormous reserves of sexual energy.” - The Perfect Matrimony

“We are sons of the devil, because we are fruits of fornication.” - Revolution of the Dialectic, The Three Mountains

The definition of fornication according to the Merriam-Webster dictionary online is "Consensual sexual intercourse between two persons not married to each other," but of course, according to modern gnostics, the black lodge got to the people writing that definition.

And as I've stated in the thread I'm continuing from at the very top of this post, I'm still young enough to start a career path. I feel more refreshed than ever having resumed my university studies.

That's all for now. I'll add more to this thread as I find out more.

Burning with more determination from this new lease on life,

The Lone Flame of Eternity

Re: Debunking Samael Aun Weor
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: December 19, 2010 11:01PM

Dear Lone Flame:

This is fascinating. First time I ever heard of the Comte de Saint-Germain was in the early 1970s when Erich von Daniken's book, Chariots of the Gods? was turned into a popular TV show. I was a kid at the time, later got a copy of the book, and remember seeing the picture in it of Saint-Germain.

von Daniken wrote that book in haste, was accused of appropriating material from other sources, but he published his very easy to read book at a time when this stuff was popular. The TV show based on his book was a major route by which this stuff entered the popular imagination.

Others could come along and build on it.

An earlier book from which von Daniken may have plaigerized, was published in the 1950s, by Louis Pauwels and entitled The Morning of the Magicians. Maybe Sam read that one. (Its English translation is The Dawn of Magic)

This article is an in depth discussion of the book


More Google citations here

There is a name for what Sam lectured on. Its called 'the Cosmic Ice Theory.

The Cosmic Ice Theory


Re: Debunking Samael Aun Weor
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: December 19, 2010 11:23PM

Know what the most effective form of 'debunking' consists of?

Taking a movement that claims to be 'beyond history' or that is allegedly 'revealed' or 'channelled' from some outside source--and then demonstrating that it can be placed in an historical and social context.

And..especially if one learns that others came up with identical or similar material long before one's guru introduced the material.

In case SAW ever referred to the count of Saint Germain, here is an article written on this figure. This author, writing from a new age perspective, nevertheless points out that Saint Germain and 'violet flame' has a history--in theosophy, as taught by Besant and Bailey, hugely popular in the late 19th and early 20th century, and a rich mine of material.

Here, a Theosophical publication from the 1930s refers to Saint German as a great master.


here is a list of articles from this same site.


Read this section 'Concerning Proof' written in 1930.


(a tiny excerpt)


The scientist has first to learn the proper method of approach to the door of the Hall of Wisdom, for that method of approach never lies in making demands.

The initial steps to spiritual knowledge are negative ones and consist of refraining from certain types of thinking, speaking and action. The seeker must first unlearn much if not all of what he heretofore regarded as knowledge. This is not easy to do. In fact, the pain is so great that most aspirants stop right here and go no further. The preliminary step involves the tearing of one's self away from those moorings which have held him fast for untold ages -- moorings of a personal, family, racial, social, political and economic character. No wonder that some of the most brilliant intellects of all times have turned their backs on occultism, hugging closer than ever their ingrained religious, social and scientific prejudices. They would not qualify -- the price demanded being ever too great for them. No one can expect to have occult knowledge and remain undisturbed. It is bound to stir up one's life to the very depths. Hence the earnest seeker for hidden Wisdom must perforce become a "disciple." The cold search for knowledge is not the end of occultism; and this is the first lesson the seeker learns.

Occult knowledge begins and ends in Motive. Why does one wish to know? True knowledge is Power and power is dangerous in the hands of the irresponsible.

Read further down this list and you will see names of supposed great Theosophists. Some may have been mentioned by SAW


Re: Debunking Samael Aun Weor
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: December 19, 2010 11:46PM

To astronomers, Alcyone is the brighest star in the Pleiedes constellation. In Greek mythology the Pleiedes were maidens who attended Artemis/Diana the goddess of the moon.

A google search done using alcyone and esotericism will give these citations--SAW is at the top of the list (!)


There is a wiki article here and..have a look at this..


The concept of the Photon Belt was first presented in 1950 by Paul Otto Hesse
( died 1958 )[14] in his work Der Jüngste Tag ( The Last Day ).

This concept was repeated and expanded upon by Samael Aun Weor in a lecture he gave in 1977 titled "The Rings of Alcyone," but the Photon Belt didn't become popular in New Age circles until August 1981, when an article on the topic titled "And So Tomorrow" by Shirley Kemp[15] was published in the Australian International UFO Flying Saucer Research Magazine.

Kemp's article was reprinted in Nexus Magazine ( Vol. 2, No. 2 )( February 1991 "Year Book" issue ) under the title "The Photon Belt Story." (tiny excerpt from a longer article)


If a google seach is done using alcyone and theosophy, alcyone is given as the name of a master.


A much more off beat description of the Pleides and Alcyone is given here


Re: Debunking Samael Aun Weor
Posted by: Stoic ()
Date: December 20, 2010 12:01AM

Giacomo Casanova, no slouch himself at dazzling the crowd, gives a first hand account of meeting St Germain:

'St. Germain gave himself out for a marvel and always aimed at exciting amazement, which he often succeeded in doing. He was scholar, linguist, musician, and chemist, good-looking, and a perfect ladies' man. For awhile he gave them paints and cosmetics; he flattered them, not that he would make them young again (which he modestly confessed was beyond him) but that their beauty would be preserved by means of a wash which, he said, cost him a lot of money, but which he gave away freely.'

'This extraordinary man, intended by nature to be the king of impostors and quacks, would say in an easy, assured manner that he was three hundred years old, that he knew the secret of the Universal Medicine, that he possessed a mastery over nature, that he could melt diamonds, professing himself capable of forming, out of ten or twelve small diamonds, one large one of the finest water without any loss of weight. All this, he said, was a mere trifle to him. Notwithstanding his boastings, his bare-faced lies, and his manifold eccentricities, I cannot say I thought him offensive. In spite of my knowledge of what he was and in spite of my own feelings, I thought him an astonishing man as he was always astonishing me.'

Casanova gives a clue as to why this extraordinary man, an imposter and quack, was able to dazzle and hoodwink the sophisticated courts of European royalty when he mentions that the French king was a 'martyr to boredom'
trying to find a little pleasure or distraction.
Its not what most of us imagine when we picture a lifestyle of untold wealth and power, being also a 'martyr to boredom'

Re: Debunking Samael Aun Weor
Date: December 20, 2010 02:49AM

Awesome stuff corboy and Stoic, those links and quotes really complement what I've found. Casanova is mentioned in Aun Weor's books as fornication incarnate.

From the looks of it, Aun Weor just found a whole bunch of scientific theories, real or not, and threw them together (and lied about stuff that was real).

By the way, corboy, that book on Cagliostro you posted in the other thread looks fascinating, as it's interesting to note that Samael calls Cagliostro an immortal master. It's only fitting for one con to admire another con.

I'm not done yet. Over the course of time I'm going to comb through Aun Weor's books; I also got my hands on a copy of "Hercolubus or Red Planet" by Rabolu in the mail from Amazon just yesterday (no way I'm letting those kooky groups that send copies out for free have my address; I'll pay the few bucks through Amazon just for it to be worth it to debunk all of this crap). I'll read through it Tuesday after I'm done with Christmas traveling to my folks' place and see just how this stuff goes. I might post something right before Christmas.

Re: Debunking Samael Aun Weor
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: December 20, 2010 08:44AM

You guys might both enjoy these two books. The one on Casanova is lengthy but the fascination and depth of the author's reseach will reward you for your time spent. Ian Kelly lived for long periods in Venice and reconstructs the neighborhoods and street routes used by Casanova during crucial incidents. Its as good as a detective story and a stack of Hello! or People magazines wound together.

There is a new biography of Giocomo Casanova entitled Casanova: Actor, Lover, Priest Spy by Ian Kelly. It covers, in detail, C's use of Kabbalistic numerology in many different domains, and how he very deliberately utilized the Freemason network throughout Europe. He even stated that if a young man wanted to travel freely, enjoy the advantages of affluent and gentlemanly society and cultivate useful social contacts, it was imperative to become a Mason. To do so opened doors and facilitated travel and social mobility.


The book also tells how Casanova was born and raised in a theatrical family in Venice, role playing coming naturally, and how, believe it or not, various patterns of dance and stage set up in Venetian theatre was based on diagrams from the Gematria.

The book on Cagliostro is entitled The Last Alchemist:Count Cagliostro Master of Magic in the Age of Enlightenment/i]


And it was through the book on Cagliostro that I learned the term bricolage. Here are the pages (via Googlebooks) that refer to this process. Here is a link from another page on


Sociologists sometimes use this word when referring to new religious movements. Here is an example.


From this I ran a search on briocolage and Luckmann and got this.

Once you read on this process, you'll become able to recognize this 'borrowing' process all over the New Age scene.

This borrowing is not necessarily a sign of something wrong. When differen cultures and belief systems meet, borrowing happens.

But there is a difference between a borrowing process that has taken place slowly, gradually and is grass roots, and governed by the actual needs and lived experience of various peoples.

The effect is different when just one individual, ego driven, out to make a career, does a borrowing process, throwing stuff together. Most of the time an individual careerist's religious bricolage will have a hasty, arbitrary quality. If the borrowing process is done to serve the needs of a very impatient person who is eager for fame and fast results, and he or she tries to borrow and blend elements from a variety of traditions, each one of which would demand an entire lifetime to master, the result will IMO have a rather superficial result.

By contrast, when the precursor of Zen (Dhayana) Buddhism trickled into China, brought by missionaries from India, it encountered indigenous Taoism, and more ritualized forms of Buddhism already there, and Confucianism. This encounter process was a very lengthy bricolage, but instead of being superintended by one eager and impatient person, it was sorted out through many generations, many lifetimes.

When Buddhism entered Japan from China, another, centuries long process of bricolage resulted.

Its analogous to the differences between fast food and slow cooking. A few items can be cooked quickly and be excellent, but there are limits.

Re: Debunking Samael Aun Weor
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: December 20, 2010 08:50AM

Note to researchers and book lovers:

This website is a big help. You not only can use it to comparison price books and sometimes locate bargains. You can also see if a particular book has come out in multiple editions.

Warning: this is like methamphetamine for book fiends.

PS if you really want to cover your arse, find a trustworthy dealer and pay cash and an additional handling charge and have a bookstore place the order through

So very many people are trying to dig out of credit card debt these days that its no longer unusual to do cash transactions.

Re: Debunking Samael Aun Weor
Date: December 31, 2010 06:56AM

Hi everyone,

Heheh, I forgot "Hercolubus or Red Planet" in my rush to get out the door to my family's house, so I wasn't able to post anything by Christmas like I wanted. But don't worry, I'll get right to it as soon as I return to my university town around the middle of next month. It's great to be enjoying real quality time with my family.

Happy New Year to Everyone!

Re: Debunking Samael Aun Weor
Date: January 09, 2011 04:17PM

I have returned to my apartment far, far away from my folks' place and even though I'm tired, I'll have another crack at Samael Aun Weor before I go to bed. Our good old friend the Count of Saint Germain makes another appearance!

So, I was watching more of the television interview of Samael Aun Weor on YouTube while at my folks' place when this gem popped up, making me remember the radio interview I quote later in this post.

Check out 2:34 until the end of this video!


So Samael Aun Weor, who by then had taken the title of Doctor without having legitimately earned it, says that the count of Saint Germain met a writer (Giovanni Papini) before World War II broke out.

But check this out. In one radio interview of his with Radio Universidad, Samael said of the writer Giovanni Papini (original Spanish text)

"Indico, en el año 1939 (recién había empezado la segunda guerra mundial), y sobre la cubierta vio a un personaje verdaderamente enigmático."

"Resolvió abordarlo. El hombre se identificó a Papini; este logró su amistad y el Conde no tuvo inconveniente alguno en mostrarle sus papeles de identificación. Se trataba del Conde San Germán que regresaba de Roma, donde se había entrevistado con los hombres de Estado. Había tratado de aconsejarles para que no cometieran el error de lanzarse a la guerra, pero como quiera que los encontró tan empeñados en la dura batalla, no le quedó mas remedio que regresarse al Asia."

My (slightly rough) translation:

"I indicate, in the year 1939 (the Second World War had recently begun) , and on the covered deck he saw a very enigmatic character"

"He [Papini] resolved to approach him. The man identified himself to Papini; this won his friendship and the count had no inconvenience in showing him his identification papers. He talked about the Count of St. Germain who was returning from Rome, where the men of State had interviewed him. He had tried to counsel them to not commit the error of throwing themselves into war, but he found them so sullied in hard battle that there remained no other remedy but to return to Asia."

Here we catch Aun Weor in a small inconsistency. On one hand, he says before World War II, but on the other, we have an account from the same "all-knowing master" himself that says that WWII had recently begun (the difference between what he says in the TV interview and the radio interview is clearly evident in the original Spanish audio) Man, if only the Internet had existed back in the 70s. I have a copy of the original audio from my old days in this whole mess (it's also easily available on the Internet, along with a transcription in the original Spanish).

Well, as you can see I'm in tiptop form and ready to tackle everything. I'll try to do some more tomorrow (making a couple of notes on excuses to justify mistakes in the works of the doctrine and the "plausible logical loopholes" that allow this doctrine to propagate).

As always, everyone else is welcome to add to my research.

Let's keep the research coming and keep this from getting a giant foothold in the English-speaking world,

The Lone Flame of Eternity

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