Brynhild, by his own admission is a bit new to analyzing the new age and new religions. So there is no big issue about asking questions about this particular Guru.

But just a quick read of that article, does raise questions. As many mainstream ideas are used as a "front" by those with a hidden agenda. It takes more careful research to sort the wheat from the chaff, and its not easy, especially these days when some Gurus are so sophisticated in their sales techniques.

So its healthy to question all the airy-fairy talk coming from every Guru, and to try and look behind the curtain. They could be benign, or it could be a big phony act.

Sorry to digress, but it appears the label hindu or meme called Hindusim is not fully understood here.

I am Indian and live in India so please let me explain.

There is also nothing benign about 'hinduism' its beliefs and its rituals practices.

Hinduism is a meaningless religious label. It is NOT an ancient philosophy that originated in India. In fact, the word Hindu is not even an Indian word. It is a superficial group identity that was concocted relatively late in the history of India. Rather than being the unified philosophy or way of thought that it masquerades to be, Hinduism is a semantic impediment to the natural evolution of cultural knowledge in India.

Hinduism is a label and there is nothing that can make anyone non hindu except the rejection of it.

Here a links on the subject of this subject. There are more researched articles at that website.

Is it a religion, culture or way of life?

[nirmukta.com]

A rationalist critique

[nirmukta.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2010 03:05PM by indiaspark.

'no big issue about asking questions about this particular Guru.'

Questions weren't asked, the man was labelled, on the basis of a brief article, as New Age and dangerous by someone who had obviously given little thought to either label before condemning this man and by association the belief system of millions.

I hold no candle for either Hinduism or for Balsekar, that is my opinion which I am free to hold. In the same manner, whatever the beliefs of those millions of Hindus, they are free to hold them regardless of my opinion. That is not the issue.

For me the issue is the mindless stupidity of labelling anyone as dangerous and New Wage simply because they hold a different belief system or express a different point of view.
Even then, people are free to be mindless and stupid, should that be what floats their boat.

However, when someone writes that kind of mindless stupidity on a discussion board, as a statement of fact, I think it should be robustly contested.
Brynhild has already demonstrated an ability to turn a few straightforward words written on a page into some dark drama of personal attack against him/her--how far is this to go?

Anyone not prepared to hold Brynhild's hand, look out for him/her, sift through various new age sites to find him/her some bona fide 'ancient wisdom that predates human thought' to believe in, and then spoon-feed that 'ancient wisdom'---- will they also be labelled dangerous and New Wage on this discussion board?


I've got some ancient wisdom of my own: you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2010 05:26PM by Stoic.

And as an added bit of grim realism: anyone not prepared to do some thinking on their own account has already resigned themselves to being forever led by every opportunist they come across.

A question I am asking myself is why someone who only reads braille so cannot read an informative book or use a dictionary (definitely available in braille), nevertheless manages unlimited access to the drivel of the new age hustlers? (not noted for their braille publications)

Something else I have learned to be wary of when people ask for help--if they don't accept and at least try the help that is sincerely offered, perhaps help is not really what that person is after, perhaps that person is looking to be rescued from the pitfalls and responsibilities of adulthood.

There is a difference between a helping hand and a full-scale rescue operation.
Life-guards are taught to knock out swimmers in distress who, in their panic to survive, will otherwise drown the well-intentioned rescuer.

Okay...lets back up.

Key part of the recover process is, feeling tired of searching for someone to look up to and wanting to try things for oneself.

So...

Here, for starters to Brynhild and others new here is this:

Go to the section of the Ross Institute website and read the material on characteristics of dangerous groups.

This list of 8 criteria by Robert J Lifton is the classic start point.

Keep these 8 characteristics in mind. Because some cults will quote tiny bits of Lifton, but give just an incomplete version of his list or twist it around so that their own group seems benign. Always go to an original source--in this case Lifton. Dont rely on some guru or group's use of Lifton.

Next, go to this section of the website

[www.culteducation.com]

Read all the stuff that is high lighted in blue.

Finally, if you think you have been in a hurtful group, see if it is listed here. Run a search on the search slot in case it is in the general section.


If there is material, read about it.


That is the startpoint. Many persons who have posted on this message board over the years said that they began by reading the Lifton material first and found it useful.

After this, then you can get more benefit from the discussion forum.

Finally, if there is a way to make computer text readable to someone who needs to use Braille, then there SURELY has to be a way to make books readable, as well.

Go read Lifton and then get back to us.

If there is a way to read what is printed here on this message board, there has to be technology availble by which to read top quality books.

And...genuine study not only means selecting good quality reading material.

Study requires an ability to withdraw from society, to be alone with yourself and with the text you are reading.

Its not a big deal for someone to ask a question, or make a mistake.
Especially when someone is new to cultic analysis, and has come out of being in cultic groups, and is trying to figure out what is going on.

But for someone is is also apparently visually impaired, its not easy to access non-braille books. Computer text is easier as a computer reader can read it out. Non-braille books have to be read and recorded I believe.

Anyway, don't see the point for any hostility toward someone who may have made a simple mistake while trying to figure things out. That's how I see it.

@indiaspark

I would agree that its not benign. In fact, countless "Gurus" in the west, never mind the east, have used those concepts as a fig-leaf to do outrageous damage to people. Basically every hack in the west uses some of them.
And it seems every 2-bit conman Guru in the East uses them to dupe naive westerners.
Using all of those "concepts from the east" is the ideal smokescreen to confuse people.

Someone once wrote that many people give more time and care to researching background on what car or house to purchase than they ever do when pondering whether a guru, belief or group is worth their attention.

Anticult posted a set of questions on a different topic. Here, in edited form are these same questions. If one learns to ask these questions about any guru or group or meditation class, this will be a big step in recovery.

Quote

If a believing members of the (group or guru) answers your question or concerns by giving a URL to a website or audiolink/'video promotiing/produced by this same guru or group, that is not the place to look (for objective, outside information)!

So lets see the real FACTS.

*Where are the audited financial statements, that legit groups, dharma centers legitimate ashrams and charities release? Where are the IRS-990 forms for Guru X or Group X?


And regarding the staff, often some of the senior staff do stay on, and its the junior staff that get used and abused.

So does the group have a lot of junior staff turnover?

But start with the money
.
How much does everyone get paid, including the guru?

What are the groups assets and income?

Lets see the audited IRS 990 Forms.

Corboy addition:

If the guru has children, does he or she route any money to them for lavish homes, weddings, clothes, endow their businesses?

Are there reports that a supposedly renunciate guru is taking frequent expensive trips that are not spirituality related, to spas, pleasure resorts, trips of a kind that most citizens could not afford, using ashram members as servants, spending money on stuff like expensive clothes and jewelry?

Its true that most people seem to ask no questions at all. Its very strange when you think about it...