Liquid Church
Posted by:
iwanttobewell
()
Date: November 23, 2010 03:54AM
Hey all.
There have been two previous threads on Liquid Church in NJ, and there was never any conclusion as to whether they are legitimate or a cult. I just found that they will be expanding to their 3rd campus in NJ, and in light of that I have decided to come forward with my experience. I have been silent about it for a few years, and I can't in good conscious continue to be. In my belief they are a cult, and a fairly dangerous one at that.
I can't give away too many details in fear of being recognized (I know they troll the web constantly for mentions of themselves - when I googled their name, EVERY SINGLE article about them had a comment from a staff member on it, who wouldn't identify who they are but would talk the church up), but know that I was close to the highest leadership, and that I worked there. I was in a position where I was privvy to the struggles of the staff, and heard about them constantly.
The lead Pastor, Tim Lucas, believes in a leadership style that mirrors exactly that of Mark Driscoll (I'm sure most of you are unfortunately familiar with him). Total rule. No elders, no board members, no checks and balances. He must control everything, and he has a terrible temper. He runs his employees into the ground. They would work 12 hour days, and he would tell them they need to smile for Jesus, to work themselves raw for God. Complaints were at best ignored, at worst that person was accused of "working against the goal of the church" and would be forced to leave - for simple things like "I would like to see me family more". They purposefully look for passive people when they are hiring, so that they can "mold them" (they actually said that). The lead pastor told me once, when I asked why women's needs were ignored constantly in the church, that "we focus on the men, because the men then bring their families, which grows the church". In other words, they could care less about spiritual wellness - its all about numbers.
There has been high staff turnover, because you can only take so much before you burn out.
Stay away. This is not a place for spiritual growth. What's even WORSE is that they bill themselves as a place for the "overchurched" and "underchurched" - so people who have been hurt by churches before will walk into this mess and get hurt all over again, and those who don't know better will be roped in to their dysfunction.
There have been two previous threads on Liquid Church in NJ, and there was never any conclusion as to whether they are legitimate or a cult. I just found that they will be expanding to their 3rd campus in NJ, and in light of that I have decided to come forward with my experience. I have been silent about it for a few years, and I can't in good conscious continue to be. In my belief they are a cult, and a fairly dangerous one at that.
I can't give away too many details in fear of being recognized (I know they troll the web constantly for mentions of themselves - when I googled their name, EVERY SINGLE article about them had a comment from a staff member on it, who wouldn't identify who they are but would talk the church up), but know that I was close to the highest leadership, and that I worked there. I was in a position where I was privvy to the struggles of the staff, and heard about them constantly.
The lead Pastor, Tim Lucas, believes in a leadership style that mirrors exactly that of Mark Driscoll (I'm sure most of you are unfortunately familiar with him). Total rule. No elders, no board members, no checks and balances. He must control everything, and he has a terrible temper. He runs his employees into the ground. They would work 12 hour days, and he would tell them they need to smile for Jesus, to work themselves raw for God. Complaints were at best ignored, at worst that person was accused of "working against the goal of the church" and would be forced to leave - for simple things like "I would like to see me family more". They purposefully look for passive people when they are hiring, so that they can "mold them" (they actually said that). The lead pastor told me once, when I asked why women's needs were ignored constantly in the church, that "we focus on the men, because the men then bring their families, which grows the church". In other words, they could care less about spiritual wellness - its all about numbers.
There has been high staff turnover, because you can only take so much before you burn out.
Stay away. This is not a place for spiritual growth. What's even WORSE is that they bill themselves as a place for the "overchurched" and "underchurched" - so people who have been hurt by churches before will walk into this mess and get hurt all over again, and those who don't know better will be roped in to their dysfunction.
Liquid Church, Pastor Tim Lucas, “Liquid Church, Cult” Morristown, NJ
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: November 23, 2010 05:30AM
What a bizarre name for a church. Liquid?
Liquid lunch ok, but liquid church? What does that mean?
They are big on marketing catchphrases...Jesus Love Jersey...Jersey is so much more than Snooki & the Sopranos.
Other threads on Liquid Church [forum.culteducation.com]
“Liquid Church, Cult” Morristown, NJ. [forum.culteducation.com]
Liquid lunch ok, but liquid church? What does that mean?
They are big on marketing catchphrases...Jesus Love Jersey...Jersey is so much more than Snooki & the Sopranos.
Other threads on Liquid Church [forum.culteducation.com]
“Liquid Church, Cult” Morristown, NJ. [forum.culteducation.com]
Re: Liquid Church, Pastor Tim Lucas, “Liquid Church, Cult” Morristown,
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: November 23, 2010 05:38AM
Sounds a bit like this other rock and roll church, which was called a destructive cult, and appears to have lost its status.
Peter Rigo, Dominion Christian Centre of Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
[forum.culteducation.com]
Peter Rigo, Dominion Christian Centre of Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
[forum.culteducation.com]
Re: Liquid Church, Pastor Tim Lucas, “Liquid Church, Cult” Morristown,
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: November 23, 2010 05:55AM
Yep, that other rock&roll church was shut down by the taxman, for spending church money on trips and perks.
If there are financial shenanigans going on at Liquid Church in NJ, then if they are reported to the taxman, then perhaps that would be looked into.
Then if they were found guilty and closed down, like the other church, they would just change the name of church, put up a new sign, and start up again the next day.
-------------------------------
[www.bible.ca]
Official Creed of the One Community Church
Formerly the Dominion Christian Centre (DCC)
Pastor Peter Rigo
141 Park Street N. Hamilton, Ontario Canada
If there are financial shenanigans going on at Liquid Church in NJ, then if they are reported to the taxman, then perhaps that would be looked into.
Then if they were found guilty and closed down, like the other church, they would just change the name of church, put up a new sign, and start up again the next day.
-------------------------------
[www.bible.ca]
Official Creed of the One Community Church
Formerly the Dominion Christian Centre (DCC)
Pastor Peter Rigo
141 Park Street N. Hamilton, Ontario Canada
Re: Liquid Church
Posted by:
lhardingly
()
Date: November 25, 2010 09:12AM
Hey everyone - check it out for yourself. Just listen to this series (Love & Respsect) and tell me if it sounds like "women's needs are being ignored."
[morristown.liquidchurch.com]
In addition to that, there has NOT been high staff turnover. In fact, most of the people that are on staff have been there for years -- AND most of those that are no longer on staff STILL attend Liquid.
But don't take my word for it. Check out the facts.
iwanttobewell - surprising that "you worked there" and didn't know the above.
[morristown.liquidchurch.com]
In addition to that, there has NOT been high staff turnover. In fact, most of the people that are on staff have been there for years -- AND most of those that are no longer on staff STILL attend Liquid.
But don't take my word for it. Check out the facts.
iwanttobewell - surprising that "you worked there" and didn't know the above.
Re: Liquid Church, where are the IRS 990 Forms?
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: November 26, 2010 05:08AM
If a believing members of the church is promoting a specific audio link, that is certainly not the place to look!
So lets see the real FACTS.
Where are the audited financial statements, that legit churches and charities release? Where are the IRS-990 forms for Liquid Church? They are not on the website.
And regarding the staff, often some of the senior staff do stay on, and its the junior staff that get used and abused.
How can it be proven that former burnt-out junior staff still attend? Its just a claim without proof.
But start with the money.
How much does everyone get paid, including the pastor?
What are the churches assets and income?
Lets see the audited IRS 990 Forms.
So lets see the real FACTS.
Where are the audited financial statements, that legit churches and charities release? Where are the IRS-990 forms for Liquid Church? They are not on the website.
And regarding the staff, often some of the senior staff do stay on, and its the junior staff that get used and abused.
How can it be proven that former burnt-out junior staff still attend? Its just a claim without proof.
But start with the money.
How much does everyone get paid, including the pastor?
What are the churches assets and income?
Lets see the audited IRS 990 Forms.
Re: Liquid Church, where are the IRS 990 Forms? site:liquidchurch.com
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: November 26, 2010 05:46AM
Anyone can search the Liquid Church website by putting this into Google with a keyword:
site:liquidchurch.com (keyword)
Lots of webpages about giving the ole tithe, offerings, financial gifts...using Direct Deposit of course.
But ZERO on financial accountability of the church.
Why no listing with www.ecfa.org EFCA Evangelical Council of Financial Accountability
There is nothing there. Zero. There is zero financial accountability or transparency for Liquid Church.
Where is all the money going?
site:liquidchurch.com (keyword)
Lots of webpages about giving the ole tithe, offerings, financial gifts...using Direct Deposit of course.
But ZERO on financial accountability of the church.
Why no listing with www.ecfa.org EFCA Evangelical Council of Financial Accountability
There is nothing there. Zero. There is zero financial accountability or transparency for Liquid Church.
Where is all the money going?
Liquid Church, where are the IRS 990 Forms? spending 3 million a year
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: November 26, 2010 06:00AM
Liquid Church uses the IRS charity tax-benefit to their advantage. They want cash, PayPal, check, stocks...they'll take it.
But why does Liquid Church refuse to post the IRS 990-Forms to prove where the money is going, and to whom?
Someone is saying they are spending 100% of their income in 2010, 2009, 2008, at about 3 million a year.
Where is all that money going?
3 million a year?
------------------------------
[internetcampus.liquidchurch.com]
"Liquid Church is a non-profit (501c3) organization officially recognized by the federal government. All gifts are tax-deductible."
"Stock Gifts - If you wish to give stock gifts to Liquid church by electronic transfer, please contact our Executive Pastor Dave Brooks at dave@liquidchur#### and he will provide the information needed to transfer shares to the broker. Thank you for considering a stock gift to God’s kingdom through the ministry of Liquid church.
------------------------
But why does Liquid Church refuse to post the IRS 990-Forms to prove where the money is going, and to whom?
Someone is saying they are spending 100% of their income in 2010, 2009, 2008, at about 3 million a year.
Where is all that money going?
3 million a year?
------------------------------
[internetcampus.liquidchurch.com]
"Liquid Church is a non-profit (501c3) organization officially recognized by the federal government. All gifts are tax-deductible."
"Stock Gifts - If you wish to give stock gifts to Liquid church by electronic transfer, please contact our Executive Pastor Dave Brooks at dave@liquidchur#### and he will provide the information needed to transfer shares to the broker. Thank you for considering a stock gift to God’s kingdom through the ministry of Liquid church.
------------------------
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