Stoic Thanks for taking the time to write that excellent post. Very well said.

I live in India and are among those Indians distressed by the irrational nonsense that is practiced with blind faith. There is a feeling in the western world that eastern religions are benign. I can assure you they are not. As a born 'hindu' I am ashamed of the caste system that prevails under the hindu label and scores of other irrational practices. This is a link to a website of a rapidly growing community of Indian free thinkers who are promoting science and reason.

[nirmukta.com]

This woman calling herself Swami Guru G like so any others is adding a spin on a culture and religion that I know enough about. There is nothing exotic, its just irrational primitive nonsense.

Ancient practices and beliefs must be looked at objectively and validated through the lens of science and reason and not the other way around to try and fit anyone's confirmation bias !



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/2010 11:08AM by indiaspark.

For more reading on confirmation bias go here:

[www.google.com]

For "null hypothesis" go here:

[www.google.com]

'Science, Pseudoscience and Irrationalism" by Steve Dutch

[www.uwgb.edu]

Am adding a URL for an article some might find interesting

[webcache.googleusercontent.com]

Quote
corboy
For more reading on confirmation bias go here:

[www.google.com]

For "null hypothesis" go here:

[www.google.com]

'Science, Pseudoscience and Irrationalism" by Steve Dutch

[www.uwgb.edu]

Am adding a URL for an article some might find interesting

[webcache.googleusercontent.com]

Thank you for those links Corboy. Much appreciated.

Indian Skeptic
[www.indiansceptic.in] www.indiansceptic.in
Indian Committee For Scientific Investigation Of Claims Of The Paranormal


Science and Rationalists’ Association of India [humanists.net]


Federation of Indian Rationalist Associations (FIRA) [www.indiansceptic.in]
"A commoner walking on burning charcoal in a Miracle Busting Programme"


[www.indiansceptic.in]
Basava Premanand
(17 February 1930 - 04 October 2009)

B. Premanand, the doyen of Indian rationalist movement, is no more. He breathed his last on Oct 4, 2009 at 2.20 pm at Podannur, Tamil Nadu. He was 79. According to his wishes, his body has been donated to the local medical college.

Born on 17 February, 1930 in Kozhikode (Kerala), Premanand was a keen observer of paranormal phenomena even in his childhood. In his teenage, he approached assorted swamis and gurus to gain spiritual insights but soon fell out with each one of them when he realized that they were all fakes. In 1969 he met the ace Sri Lankan skeptic Dr. Abraham Kovoor who was in India for his “Miracle Exposure” lecture tour. That was a watershed in the life of Premanand, who immediately plunged headlong into the campaign of debunking spiritual tricksters. After Dr. Abraham Kovoor’s death in 1978, Premanand continued Kovoor’s famous challenge of offering One Lakh Rupees to anyone who could demonstrate psychic abilities under fraud-proof conditions. Admittedly, there have been few takers.


During his tumultuous campaign spanning over three exhilarating decades, Premanand visited almost every village and town in India exposing godmen and their miracles, conducting science workshops for the educated and the laypersons, giving public lectures and demonstrations. He visited about 49 countries with his mission to spread skepticism and critical thinking. He was given a Fellowship by National Council for Science and Technology Communication of Government of India for his efforts to spread scientific awareness.

Premanand’s most famous target has, of course, been Puttaparthi Sai Baba, the number one spiritual fraudster in India for decades (cont'd). [www.indiansceptic.in]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/2010 02:27AM by The Anticult.

Am not a student, but do feel that the burden of proof is on you, not them, to provide sensible evidence against. There is no argument in calling the videos inane. To who? To you? In what way? In what way are they "harmful" to unsuspecting people. and who are these people? In what way does a video take away their ability to think for themselves? This site should not be about casting a giant net on all spiritual groups and shouting bloody cult. It should provide evidence, arguments, and be open-minded. Obviously, if you believe there is no soul and no way to become realised, every group in existence is going to be a crazy cult. Which is fine, but it doesn't leave much room for investigation or insight.

I am not a student, but wanted to respomd in general terms to some points you make.
The group is personality-driven, which is the single most salient characteristic of groups called "cults."
Most spiritual groups have a main teacher. If that makes it a cult, then all such groups are cults. Not a very open-minded position I feel.
Swami G provides no meaningful financial transparency regarding the purported nonprofit "Zen-Way" and its use of donations.
It appears that donations are freely given to help support the teacher and the path. Minimal generated from a couple books. Looks to be just getting by. If this shouts out cult to you, I say same as above.
Moreover, Swami G has no meaningful accountability to anyone and appears to be essentially her own authority.
The spiritual teacher isn't some president of a public corporation. They are there to help the student remove the blinders, and are uniquely qualified to do so. The student knowingly enters into a relationship with the teacher for this express purpose. So again I say same as above.
Swami G has a history of "cult" involvement, which she has admitted publicly.
If anything, this is a good sign. We all have a past - the red flag is secrecy, and obviously if very questionable things happened. She appears to lay it all out publically - and the only offense commited is being a part of sketchy orgs which she recognized and moved on from. So what?

And as for her videos on kundalini and all the rest, these are not wild new assertions. They are millenia-old teachings that appear to be quite consistent with scriptural and living authorities teachings. You may not agree with them, or may feel they are hogwash, but they appear to be well within the tradition. And they are not asking for confirmation or backing. The burden of proof, as I said to indiaspark, is on you frankly. And I am not seeing anything obvious to suggest that this is a cult. Of course if you feel that anything that speaks of spirit and a way to know spirit is automatically a cult, then everything is a cult and you might as well call it a day. You have already closed shop in that case.

The burden of proof, as I said to indiaspark, is on you frankly.

Actually, the burden of proof is on Guru SwamiG who has made numerous assertions regarding what she teaches with no evidence at all to back the validity of those assertions.
She is demanding that her followers swallow her assertions on faith, not evidence and promotes a system of bhakti yoga--devotion to the guru--that insists that the follower abdicate responsibility for doing his own thinking in order to allow the guru to dictate supposedly 'right thinking'

No critical thinking allowed=no possibility of independently verifying anything that the guru dictates as reality=cult.

Every eastern guru worth his salt first teaches the follower to think critically and insists that the follower takes nothing at face value.
Guru SwamiG is selling 'eastern wisdom lite' in order to gather and hoodwink a group of followers to financially support her.


Every eastern guru worth his salt will tell you that this stuff is not for sale--if you can buy it or sell it you are on the wrong track. You need your own critical thinking to do the hard work of sorting the charlatans from the very rare genuine article who might have some worthwhile insights to offer.

A good guru is a guide on a hitherto unmapped path, never a leader. The unmapped path is unique and different for each individual so all that baloney about millenia-old teachings and bowing to scriptural authority does not apply--it is just baloney.

Here is a good rule of thumb to differentiate the charlatans from those who maybe have something of value to offer:

[www.culteducation.com]


This is what conmen and cults employ, very successfully, to hoodwink the followers:

[www.culteducation.com]


Primer on critical thinking:

[www.xenu.net]


You are, of course, free to reject all this in favour of 'eastern wisdom lite,' ----your choice.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/14/2010 09:49PM by Stoic.

Quote
Guru Patrol
Am not a student, but do feel that the burden of proof is on you, not them, to provide sensible evidence against. There is no argument in calling the videos inane. To who? To you? In what way? In what way are they "harmful" to unsuspecting people. and who are these people? In what way does a video take away their ability to think for themselves? This site should not be about casting a giant net on all spiritual groups and shouting bloody cult. It should provide evidence, arguments, and be open-minded. Obviously, if you believe there is no soul and no way to become realised, every group in existence is going to be a crazy cult. Which is fine, but it doesn't leave much room for investigation or insight.

You have been messaging me privately and you are clearly an apologist for this woman who calls herself Guru Swami G.

Quote
Stoic
The burden of proof, as I said to indiaspark, is on you frankly.

Actually, the burden of proof is on Guru SwamiG who has made numerous assertions regarding what she teaches with no evidence at all to back the validity of those assertions.
She is demanding that her followers swallow her assertions on faith, not evidence and promotes a system of bhakti yoga--devotion to the guru--that insists that the follower abdicate responsibility for doing his own thinking in order to allow the guru to dictate supposedly 'right thinking'

No critical thinking allowed=no possibility of independently verifying anything that the guru dictates as reality=cult.

Every eastern guru worth his salt first teaches the follower to think critically and insists that the follower takes nothing at face value.
Guru SwamiG is selling 'eastern wisdom lite' in order to gather and hoodwink a group of followers to financially support her.


Every eastern guru worth his salt will tell you that this stuff is not for sale--if you can buy it or sell it you are on the wrong track. You need your own critical thinking to do the hard work of sorting the charlatans from the very rare genuine article who might have some worthwhile insights to offer.

A good guru is a guide on a hitherto unmapped path, never a leader. The unmapped path is unique and different for each individual so all that baloney about millenia-old teachings and bowing to scriptural authority does not apply--it is just baloney.

Excellent post. You nailed it.