She has some new videos (on YouTube which can be found under her name) out to combat this thread and all that has been brought up within it. That is fair and to be expected. Sadly, she fails to address most (if not all) of the issues, concerns and points that have been laid out by me other than using veiled and vague justifications. Those questions and concerns still need to be answered.

In her first (of 3 and counting) videos she also alludes to the fact that my family may fall apart., that I will end up where I was before seeking her guidance and/or counseling, and even that I am in a "hell realm" (not to mention she trashes another member that has spoken out against her on this board, suggesting that he may be a drug addict or alcoholic now. So terribly sad.). In honesty and fairness to myself and my family, I will share the bitter details. This is not easy and certainly places the spotlight on my shortcomings; however, facts (as I've come to painfully learn) speak louder than veiled innuendos.

The teacher decided, after many years saying otherwise (which she speaks some to in her first new video), that celibacy / renunciation was the only means for "realization", thus sending those members not readily agreeing to that into a group for "those not wanting realization". Considering I had been, was and still am searching for truth, peace and happiness, I was desperate to get back in to her good graces so that I could get to such a state of "perfect peace". She continually suggested that people take part in her counseling. Assuming there was something fundamentally wrong with me for not wanting to break my marriage vows and become a renunciate, I signed up for her counseling soon after getting demoted to her "does not want realization" group.

The question that was posed to me, in her counseling, was "what is holding you back from accepting grace?". (As a side note, to further point out something she still hasn't addressed, Siddhananda was sitting in the room with her as she did the counseling sessions, about 4 of them at different times, with me over Skype). A process of bringing forward the truth of that soon followed. I revealed my long held feelings of unworthiness, dirtiness, "not perfect enough", feeling like I was lost, forgotten and all too insignificant. I also revealed how I had long tried to be perfect, to maintain a rigid sense of perfection in my life, to strive for perfection ceaselessly. I am a housewife. I have two young children. I revealed to her how I did all of the chores around the house, limiting the help of my children and my husband. This is because I have long liked things a certain way, things in order, things in an overly organized manner. It is a strong leaning and propensity towards OCD which I was aware of then and even more vigilant to pay careful consideration and attention to now. The truth is I have long tried to live in a very perfect way. She suggest that I create a chore sheet for my children to help ease me back from taking so much ownership and control when managing our home. She also suggested I institute more family time to limit my time and leanings to try to keep things tidy. Those were helpful suggestions maintained even now.

During this time I was also dealing with some issues concerning other family members (not my children or husband), details of which I won't bring up here because their business is simply not in question in this forum, and it also their private information. She knew of these things I was dealing with, offering guidance to me as I tried to navigate through them. That is all I'm at liberty to discuss about that.

What became more and more clear to me is that my own propensity for perfection had painted a false light upon everything, had caused me to strive in ways that ended up hurting me more than helping me, had blinded me to my own and others behavior, and that kept me in a state of denial about many things, including her. I was finally able (or rather, no longer able to deny, excuse or justify) to see this teacher in a fuller light (rather than using some ideal of "perfect being" to cover over her behavior and actions). However, I knew that these things I was starting to fully acknowledge and no longer deny with ideals of perfection could not be brought up. As much as she'd like to argue otherwise, I've seen hundreds of instances over the years where people attempted to bring them forward and they were all but attacked and sent away with condemnations by her (unless they concede). When I left her, I removed myself from all her groups without saying a word. I was hoping I could slip out the backdoor without having to brings these things up and go through what I knew would be terrifyingly difficult. She sent me a short note a couple of days later expressing her hurt by me leaving without saying anything. I knew she deserved an answer, I just didn't want to have to tell her what I truly felt and what I was no longer willing to deny, keep secret or justify with ideals of "a perfected being".

I sent an email to her private email address, mostly speaking about her angry, rude and cruel behavior towards others. She posted that in her groups. I knew she would, as she always does, but I did not know what would follow. We had a couple of more exchanges. In the last one, which she responded to me while refusing me the right to respond back (by saying she would no longer reply), she used the information I gave her in counseling about both myself and my family members (who did not receive her counseling), all for her group to see. I was sobbing as I read her last email, as she threw that personal information at me as weapons ("you were helped, look at how messed up you all are, how messed up you will remain" type of statements), and felt as if I had been violated in the deepest way. That is also when I was told that I had "lost all Grace", would lose all experiences of peace and I was "following my own delusions" (among many other similar attacks and condemnations). Shaken and admittedly angry, I served her with a 'Cease and Desist Order' to prevent her from sharing my private information or my family's private information in any of her forums on in her videos. I, sadly, cannot stop her from sharing with her inner circle.

I admit that I had long kept things secret and denied the truth about both my own behavior and hers. I am sorry that I did not have the strength, courage or ability to be totally honest then. I have the strength, courage and ability now. I am being as brutally honest as I can about both my behavior and hers. I will stand by anyone that has left who may need someone to stand by. I will stand by any that choose to leave. I will even stand by any that choose to stay, knowing that they are free to choose whatever they choose.

I stand by everything I have said in these threads. It isn't pretty, I have made many mistakes, but this is what it looks like. I am working to get my life back to a healthy balance, to be a better mother in a more grounded way, to make amends to my husband for seeing and even inadvertently treating him as an obstacle on a path towards "realization", to make amends for my past behavior, and to be honest with myself and those I interact with. I am earnestly, though without the ideals, ever in search of truth, peace and happiness. It has been my experience that this is simply a step in that direction, no matter how difficult, complicated, muddled and terrifying it may be. I'll allow any that come to these boards to use their own process of discernment and judgment to decide for themselves.

In my estimation we have come full circle. I sought her in desperation and need, followed her under a spell of "perfection" (searching for my own, while being willing to excuse her behavior with a spiritual ideal of "perfect being"), finally was able to see my mistakes (and hers), had no other option than to leave (because she is unable to hear these issues that are brought up to her time and time again, let alone acknowledge them and make the needed changes; and I was unable to keep giving her free passes and reign), and then I came here to publicly reveal my errors in judgment, as well as hers. I have said and will continue to stand by what I know to be true in my experience. Thank you for allowing me to share.

May peace prevail for all,

Holly

xo

Holly -

Stay strong. I viewed Swami G's recent videos. I must say, I was troubled by much of what she said, especially how she appeared (at least in how I heard it) to boast that she did not sign confidentiality agreements for her departed followers and, so, can now share their private and personal information that she gleaned during counseling and otherwise without liability. (I'm not so sure about that.) In my opinion, she ended up confirming much of what you posted in this site. So, I hope you feel vindicated to some extent. She's basically proven many of your points. Right there, on her own site, in living color. I hope that she has the good sense, judgment and ethics not to expose the personal and private information of counseling clients. If she were a licensed counselor, I would think that doing that would be grounds for revocation of her license.

I wish you the very best. You have helped me and, I'm sure, many others.

Yes. I know. I have attached the Counseling Code of Ethics for all to see, which shows what licensed, certfied and trained counselors MUST adhere to or lose their license.

Her student, [edited for privacy] the asian nun, is a counselor at a local Florida drug rehab clinic. I'm sure, if they found out about her teachers activities and the liberties she takes with her own "counseling practices", they would be beyond concerned about the potential impact to their ogranization, considering one of their very counselors is involved in such a group and their clients, rightly so, may be concerned about her mirroring the same type of behavior (freely sharing people's private information).

[www.counseling.org]

Sadly, this teacher's lack of ethics has not only the potential to harm (and has harmed) those who receive her services, but also those who are associated with her, impacting their professional reputations.

Thank you for the comments, Icarus.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/29/2013 12:28PM by diddly.

It should also be noted that my family and I are prepared for legal action, having the advisors needed and readied.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/29/2013 12:19PM by diddly.

According to the teacher's website (www.GuruSwamiG.com, listed in the footer), the following is noted:

"This site and all church activities operate under the auspices of
THE CHURCH OF GREAT PEACE AND PATHWAYS TO SELF-REALIZATION
with a trade name ZEN WAY, a non profit corporation registered in the state of Washington."

A simple search at the IRS revealed no such 501c organization in either Washington or Florida.

[www.irs.gov]

IRS Form 13909, Tax Exempt Organization Complaint Referral Form, has been completed (pending proof of an issued EIN number) and will be submitted to the IRS.

From the IRS website: IRS Complaint Process For Tax Exempt Organizations (http://www.irs.gov/uac/IRS-Complaint-Process-For-Tax-Exempt-Organizations):

The Internal Revenue Service gives serious consideration to complaints made alleging the abuse of the tax exempt status granted to certain organizations.

When reviewing filed complaints, the IRS carefully follows special procedures designed to assure the public of the IRS’s objectivity in the treatment of tax-exempt organizations. These procedures ensure that the IRS operates in an unbiased and appropriate manner and that its compliance programs are not improperly influenced by outside intervention.

The responsibility for administering these procedures belongs to the Exempt Organizations (EO) function, which is part of the IRS’s Tax Exempt and Government Entities Operating Division.

Complaints (Referrals)

A complaint (also called a referral) is any communication alleging that a tax-exempt organization is in potential noncompliance with the tax law. EO receives complaints from the general public, members of Congress, federal and state government agencies, as well as from other parts of the IRS.

Filing a Complaint

A referral of an exempt organization may be made by submitting Form 13909, Tax-Exempt Organization Complaint (Referral) Form, downloadable from IRS.gov.

Form 13909 and any supporting documentation may be submitted in a variety of ways. They can be sent via:
•Mail to IRS EO Classification, Mail Code 4910DAL, 1100 Commerce St., Dallas, TX 75242-1198,
•Fax to 214-413-5415, or
•Email to eoclass@irs.gov.

Submission of Form 13909 is voluntary.

In addition to oversight by the IRS, tax-exempt organizations are subject to oversight by state charity regulators and state tax agencies. You may also want to send a copy of the referral you send to us to your state charity regulator and/or state tax agency. [added 1/10/13]

Acknowledgement and Disclosure Prohibition

All referrals are sent to analysts at the EO Classifications Office in Dallas. After a referral is made, the IRS will send an acknowledgement letter to all non-IRS sources making a referral, unless it was made anonymously. To receive an acknowledgement letter, you must provide a return address. We are unable to send acknowledgement letters through e-mail.

Section 6103 of the Internal Revenue Code prohibits the IRS from disclosing whether it has initiated an examination or the results of any examination. Therefore, the IRS cannot communicate with the original source of a referral beyond the acknowledgement letter.

The Review Process

Upon receipt, research is done to confirm the identity of the organization in question and once this is complete, information is entered into a database to help the IRS keep track of the progress of the review.

An experienced EO revenue agent then performs a thorough technical analysis of the allegation made on the referral. The agent uses a “reasonable belief” standard to evaluate the facts and to determine whether EO should take further action. Before taking action, the revenue agent must determine that the facts create a reasonable belief that the allegations may be true when considered fairly and in light of other reliable information.

The reviewing EO agent will decide one of the following:
•The information does not warrant further action. In this case, the agent inputs information, including rationale, into the database and closes the referral.
•The referral relates to activities that should be considered at a future date. The agent documents the database and schedules the appropriate date to re-evaluate the information.
•The referral contains characteristics that require it to be forwarded to a committee of career EO managers and agents. This committee evaluates referrals monthly — more often in some circumstances — and decides whether to proceed with an examination. The committee also applies the “reasonable belief” standard.
•The information warrants an examination of the organization. The agent documents his or her decision and the reasons for it in the database. The information item then becomes part of the examination file.

If this process results in a decision to examine an organization, the Classification Office will forward the case to a field group for assignment to a revenue agent. The revenue agent will contact the organization and schedule an appointment to begin the examination. (For details on the EO examination process, see Fact Sheet 2008-14.)

John A. Lobur:

I though you had decided to go and make no further comments here?

It seems that your only purpose here is as an apologist.

You have said that Swami G. has done no wrong and that she is essentially pretty much perfect.

OK.

Can we move on now.

BTW--Please tell the gang over at Swami G's that personal attacks against members of this message board are against the rules. And that people coming here to post such attacks will be immediately banned from this message board.

A brief and final reflection. In an earlier post, I noted that it appeared to me that Holly endured some "manipulation and mind control." I want to clarify, however, that I don't think that that's altogether surprising to have happen in most any spiritual or religious endeavor. As a "recovering Catholic," my childhood and early adulthood in the church was rife with "manipulation and mind control" at the hands of the church and its various tentacles. So do I -- given the very little that I know as an outsider about what happens in the Swami G ashram -- think that Swami G runs a "mind control" cult or other similar operation of manipulation and exploitation? From what I know now? NO. Not at all. Not any more than a regular mainstream religious/spiritual tradition. But I am deeply concerned by Holly's accounts and by recent comments from Swami G herself. Swami G's doing battle with sadhakas and at least this former sage, Holly, who have decided to leave is not only strange, but quite disconcerting and perhaps an indication of other troubles. And that saddens me since I've gotten a lot from Swami G's teachings in her past videos. Unfortunately, her latest offerings, for the last several months, seem to overflow with negativity and lashing out at others. Other gurus. Current followers. Departed followers. I wish Swami G would go back to being a guru. Publicly. Peacefully. Showing by example what it means to lead an ego-free, balanced, peaceful existence.

But no human is perfect. No teacher is perfect. No student is perfect. We are all deeply flawed and even broken. Enlightenment and "realization" may come from the broken parts, but at bottom, we are all flawed people. Holly's mistake, and that of many spiritual followers, is that she placed Swami G on too high a pedestal when the guru, like all humans, is just like us. Flawed. But that does not mean we can't all learn great things from Swami G and from Holly herself. We have a responsibility to question, to think critically, to discern between the reasonable and the unreasonable, and retain a core sense of autonomy and judgment. As Holly has acknowledged - courageously and honestly - she bears some responsibility here too. (And that, of course, is OK and to be expected.)

This is a cautionary tale for all of us. Thank you again, Holly.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/29/2013 11:51PM by Icarus.

She has posted the last letters I sent to her private email address (and after a Cease and Desist notice was given which specifically asked that she no longer share private information about myself or my family shared in her private groups, emails or "counseling services") on her Facebook account. Sigh. This is how she deals with criticisms, which she claims to readily accept and allow, and sadly reveals the true depth of her motives, character and overall state of mind.

Truly disturbing.

"It's no secret you can short-circuit somebody's brain with shame. "

Excerpt from a larger article posted on Cracked.com



[www.cracked.com]

Quote

#3.Keeping You In Line With Shame

I won several formal debates in college using my patented technique of simply repeating my opponent's argument in a high-pitched, mocking tone while wiggling my fingers in the air. There really is no defense.

They call this the appeal to rididcule fallacy. To which I would simply rebut, "Oooooh, appeal to ridicule fallacy! Well I've got a 'phallus' you can 'see' right here, college boy."

Professionals have more sophisticated methods, but it boils down to the same technique. "They" know that if they can paint an idea as ridiculous, the listener usually won't bother examining it any closer to find out if the ridicule is justified.

Sounds like:

"So now they're telling us that--get this, folks--global warming is caused by cows farting! Priceless!"

"And then he said we could save gas by inflating our tires! I couldn't make this stuff up, folks!"

Why It Works:

It's no secret you can short-circuit somebody's brain with shame. How many of us were shamed into doing something stupid in high school? Hell, I still have that huge Dokken tattoo on my back.

But why does it work? Well, there are these primitive, lower parts of your brain called amygdalae that controls those base, emotional reactions. That's where things like contempt and shame come from, and stimulating it can completely shut down the analytical part of your brain.


After all, why even consider something that's ridiculous? That's only something a ridiculous person would do! And you're not ridiculous ... are you?

--

(Corboy note: It seems customery for many authoritarian types to use the condescending tone, even in text. Such as Wow, you are putting so much energy into this. Ridicule.

In our culture it is customary to use a high pitched tone when rebuking/scolding children. And even when children are well behaved, adults often use another type voice tone. So when we are adults, if someone uses a tone of voice toward us that is customarily directed toward children, perhaps this can regress the targeted person back to childhood and disrupt adult, analytical thought.

If an adult needs correction, that person cannot use full adult capacity to learn and change if the authority figure is using these tones of voice that are customarily used on children. Anyone teaches adult students yet uses this high pitched tone and claims to be helping you learn while using this tone of voice is treating students in a way that actually disrupts their learning abilities by disrupting critical thinking. It only leaves the students confused--and regressed.

One way to assess an authority figure or leader is see whether and in what circumstances he or she uses this tone of voice. May be valuable when assessing potential boy friend or girl friends, too. If after marriage, someone uses this tone of voice more and more frequently, thats a very bad sign -- get out before things get worse. )

Icarus:

For the purpose and focus of this thread there is no meaningful comparison between cults, mainstream religion and the Roman Catholic Church. It is off topic and not an accurate or useful analogy.

Cults by definition deceive or trick people through a "bail and switch" process.

Mainstream religion is open and honest about beliefs and it works, etc.

Please don't engage in any form of victim bashing on this thread.

Cult members have been deceived or tricked. The responsibility lies with the cult leader not the victim.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2013 10:36PM by rrmoderator.