Re: "Doubts about the Dalai Lama"/
Posted by:
Alchi
()
Date: September 15, 2010 04:23PM
Quote
shakti
"For people who are really interested in the real political History of Tibet, not conspiration theories, there are plenty of scholarly books on the subject."
-So Michael Parenti, a respected scholar, is a "conspiracy theorist"?
Is this book, with foreword from the DL's man in the West, Robert Thurman a "conspiracy book"?
Buddha's Warriors: The Story of the CIA-Backed Tibetan Freedom Fighters, the Chinese Communist Invasion, and the Ultimate Fall of Tibet
[www.amazon.com]
Also, what is your take on the Bruno Beger situation? Heinrich Harrer? Bragging about your resume doesn't cut it. Address those issues or you're just pissing in the wind.
"Tashi Delek" to you, too...
Your aggressive tone doesn't give your post more credibility.
If you think this essay by Mr Parenti is a scholarly work then think again. If you present this paper to a University's History Department I doubt anybody would be impressed.
Yes Tibet was feudal, and was no Shangri-La.
Everybody knows that , including DL and Prof. Robert Thurman.
Do you think the US and Europe democracies were Heavens on Earth in the 20th Century? Or Mao's China was really egalitarian?
Everybody knows that the CIA helped the ill fated Tibetan guerrilla.
The main victims being the Tibetan fighters themeselves.
The CIA supported all the guerrilla or para-military movements fighting "communists" in South America, Africa and Asia including Vietnam and Afghanistan.
The CIA supported these armed groups not because they cared about their causes but because it was in their interest at the time (In the context of the Cold War) Most of theses guerillas failed as we know. Some people were left to fight and die alone (Hmong people), some became new enemies (Bin Laden), most commited atrocities with the silent approval of the "democratic" US government... The USSR and China did the same. this is psychotic geopolitic at its best.
I suggest you to read some real books instead of cut and pasting bits of pop History essays, half baked social commentaries from Vanity Fair or YouTube videos. Thank me later.
Kind regards,
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/15/2010 04:50PM by Alchi.
Re: "Doubts about the Dalai Lama"/
Posted by:
Stoic
()
Date: September 15, 2010 05:13PM
Something to bear in mind, which came up recently on another thread (which I can't at the moment locate), is that information is never neutral. There is always a spin or bias, even if unconscious, from the writer.
Knowing this, I find it helpful to read both pro and anti viewpoints before forming my own opinions--which are still not 'Truth' since they are my opinions.
Few recent scholarly works are available for cut and pasting on the internet without signing up to access closed data-bases, so we use what is available to the general reader here. This is, after all, a site for us general reader types, not an academic ivory tower.
I don't expect to change anybody's viewpoint but making alternative views available does give the interested reader a bigger picture to consider. Tunnel vision helps nobody, and those with ingrained tunnel vision are unlikely to consider anyone else's viewpoint anyway.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/15/2010 05:15PM by Stoic.
Knowing this, I find it helpful to read both pro and anti viewpoints before forming my own opinions--which are still not 'Truth' since they are my opinions.
Few recent scholarly works are available for cut and pasting on the internet without signing up to access closed data-bases, so we use what is available to the general reader here. This is, after all, a site for us general reader types, not an academic ivory tower.
I don't expect to change anybody's viewpoint but making alternative views available does give the interested reader a bigger picture to consider. Tunnel vision helps nobody, and those with ingrained tunnel vision are unlikely to consider anyone else's viewpoint anyway.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/15/2010 05:15PM by Stoic.
Re: "Doubts about the Dalai Lama"/
Posted by:
Alchi
()
Date: September 15, 2010 05:29PM
Quote
Stoic
Something to bear in mind, which came up recently on another thread (which I can't at the moment locate), is that information is never neutral. There is always a spin or bias, even if unconscious, from the writer.
Knowing this, I find it helpful to read both pro and anti viewpoints before forming my own opinions--which are still not 'Truth' since they are my opinions.
Few recent scholarly works are available for cut and pasting on the internet without signing up to access closed data-bases, so we use what is available to the general reader here. This is, after all, a site for us general reader types, not an academic ivory tower.
I don't expect to change anybody's viewpoint but making alternative views available does give the interested reader a bigger picture to consider. Tunnel vision helps nobody, and those with ingrained tunnel vision are unlikely to consider anyone else's viewpoint anyway.
Sure. For a balanced view on the controversy regarding pre 1950 Tibet's serfs and feudalism here's the link to a rather good wikipedia article.
[en.wikipedia.org]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/15/2010 05:38PM by Alchi.
Re: "Doubts about the Dalai Lama"/
Posted by:
shakti
()
Date: September 15, 2010 11:37PM
Quote
AlchiQuote
Stoic
Sure. For a balanced view on the controversy regarding pre 1950 Tibet's serfs and feudalism here's the link to a rather good wikipedia article.
[en.wikipedia.org]
LOL. You get on me for "non-scholarly" resources, and then go right to the Wikipedia.... thanks for playing, Alchi.
Also, when you going to get back to me about Heinrich Harrer and Bruno Beger? Got any "scholarly articles" on how the Dalai Lama ISN'T connected to those two?
Waiting....
Re: "Doubts about the Dalai Lama"/
Posted by:
Stoic
()
Date: September 16, 2010 12:28AM
Alchi,
Thanks for the wiki link.
I am a deeply committed agnostic, not a vestige of religious belief, can you give a Buddhist interpretation of why the Dalai Lama takes such enormous donations for a photo-opportunity from such shady people as Raniere and Shoko Asahara and how that is justified according to Buddhist principles?
To my knowledge the Dalai Lama has never adequately explained his continuing association with these donors as well as his professed friendship for Beger.
I can guess that 'compassion' would be the easy answer--however, he has not expressed an equal compassion for the victims of these shady types. As a non-believer, I tend to assume that the large donations must be weighting the scales of compassion in the shady types favour.
Is this morally acceptable under the vows of right action and right livelihood?
Or is this a case of the authoritarian staple: "do as I say, not as I do"?
A general reader's Eightfold Path:
[www.thebigview.com]
Thanks for the wiki link.
I am a deeply committed agnostic, not a vestige of religious belief, can you give a Buddhist interpretation of why the Dalai Lama takes such enormous donations for a photo-opportunity from such shady people as Raniere and Shoko Asahara and how that is justified according to Buddhist principles?
To my knowledge the Dalai Lama has never adequately explained his continuing association with these donors as well as his professed friendship for Beger.
I can guess that 'compassion' would be the easy answer--however, he has not expressed an equal compassion for the victims of these shady types. As a non-believer, I tend to assume that the large donations must be weighting the scales of compassion in the shady types favour.
Is this morally acceptable under the vows of right action and right livelihood?
Or is this a case of the authoritarian staple: "do as I say, not as I do"?
A general reader's Eightfold Path:
[www.thebigview.com]
Re: "Doubts about the Dalai Lama"/
Posted by:
Stoic
()
Date: September 16, 2010 01:15AM
These large donations accepted from shady types remind me of the sale of indulgences that split the catholic church in medieval times and hastened Martin Luther's Protestant Reformation.
[wiki.answers.com]
Do Buddhists get a better rebirth depending on the size of donation and proximity to the Dalai Lama?
[wiki.answers.com]
Do Buddhists get a better rebirth depending on the size of donation and proximity to the Dalai Lama?
Re: "Doubts about the Dalai Lama"/
Posted by:
Alchi
()
Date: September 16, 2010 03:21PM
Quote
shaktiQuote
AlchiQuote
Stoic
Sure. For a balanced view on the controversy regarding pre 1950 Tibet's serfs and feudalism here's the link to a rather good wikipedia article.
[en.wikipedia.org]
LOL. You get on me for "non-scholarly" resources, and then go right to the Wikipedia.... thanks for playing, Alchi.
Also, when you going to get back to me about Heinrich Harrer and Bruno Beger? Got any "scholarly articles" on how the Dalai Lama ISN'T connected to those two?
Waiting....
Indeed LOL, I have posted this link as a reply to Stoic regarding the unavailability of scholarly work on the net. This wiki article is pretty good. Maybe not sensationalist enough for you though?
Of course the Dalai Lama is connected to every nazi out there, have ever you watched Raiders Of The Lost Ark? Lots of nazis in the Himalayas...
If you think R. Thurman is the mouth piece of the DL and then in return a CIA sponsored right wing bigot then check his podcast.
You know we have probably more in common than you think. I'm coming from a socialist family, really anti clerical grand parents (RIP) who fought the fascists in the streets in the 30's. I'm not a religious nut either.
Re: "Doubts about the Dalai Lama"/
Posted by:
Alchi
()
Date: September 16, 2010 04:09PM
Heinrich Harrer: "After returning to Europe in 1952 Harrer was cleared of any pre-war crimes and this was later supported by Simon Wiesenthal. In his memoir Beyond Seven Years in Tibet Harrer called his involvement with the Nazi party a mistake made in his youth when he had not yet learned to think for himself." That's from Wikipedia, it's on the internet so it might be right, right? ;)
If you look on the net about supposed nazi connections of the Dalai Lama, you will find a the same quotes again and again by different websites: like the western shugden society, or pro-chinese govt. opinions etc. Lots of stuff regarding shambala and kalachackra which has been explained by the DL many times. Of couse the Nazis were interested in Tibet, they loved all the occult stuff and try to give legitimity to their Aryan myth hence their expeditions all over the world in the 30's, including Tibet. Interestingly this supposed Aryan connection to buddhism re-surfaced today in the Diamond Way. In my view Ole Nydahl is a racist with a deep misunderstanding of buddhism, and a DL hater.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/16/2010 04:31PM by Alchi.
If you look on the net about supposed nazi connections of the Dalai Lama, you will find a the same quotes again and again by different websites: like the western shugden society, or pro-chinese govt. opinions etc. Lots of stuff regarding shambala and kalachackra which has been explained by the DL many times. Of couse the Nazis were interested in Tibet, they loved all the occult stuff and try to give legitimity to their Aryan myth hence their expeditions all over the world in the 30's, including Tibet. Interestingly this supposed Aryan connection to buddhism re-surfaced today in the Diamond Way. In my view Ole Nydahl is a racist with a deep misunderstanding of buddhism, and a DL hater.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/16/2010 04:31PM by Alchi.
Re: "Doubts about the Dalai Lama"/
Posted by:
Stoic
()
Date: September 16, 2010 09:22PM
Alchi,
Do you think that the Dalai Lama displayed good Buddhist judgement in taking a very large donation from both Keith Raniere and Shoko Asahara, giving both of them the PR gloss of his Nobel Prize Winner's friendship and patronage---and then failing to explain or admit to that decision.
I don't recall ever hearing that the donations were returned.
The Dalai Lama seems not to value his reputation as one of the great and good very much, or perhaps he values the cash more.
It also seems to go against the teachings on greed that he makes to all and sundry, is he exempt from his own teachings, just like the catholic clergy have demonstrated themselves to be exempt from the homilies that they preach?
There is a great quote about teaching from William Arthur Ward:
"The mediocre teacher tells. The good teacher explains. The superior teacher demonstrates. The great teacher inspires."
What is the Dalai Lama demonstrating to us by accepting the ill-gotten money of these two cult leaders?
Do you think that the Dalai Lama displayed good Buddhist judgement in taking a very large donation from both Keith Raniere and Shoko Asahara, giving both of them the PR gloss of his Nobel Prize Winner's friendship and patronage---and then failing to explain or admit to that decision.
I don't recall ever hearing that the donations were returned.
The Dalai Lama seems not to value his reputation as one of the great and good very much, or perhaps he values the cash more.
It also seems to go against the teachings on greed that he makes to all and sundry, is he exempt from his own teachings, just like the catholic clergy have demonstrated themselves to be exempt from the homilies that they preach?
There is a great quote about teaching from William Arthur Ward:
"The mediocre teacher tells. The good teacher explains. The superior teacher demonstrates. The great teacher inspires."
What is the Dalai Lama demonstrating to us by accepting the ill-gotten money of these two cult leaders?
Re: "Doubts about the Dalai Lama"/
Posted by:
shakti
()
Date: September 16, 2010 11:34PM
Heinrich Harrer was a known liar who worked hard to cover his ass. Weisenthal cleared him of war crimes, but he was still a Nazi, something that Harrer told multiple versions of during his life.
Oh, and Stoic, good luck on getting Alchi to discuss Rainere and Asahara. Dont' see that happening.
Care to address Beger, Alchi?
Oh, and Stoic, good luck on getting Alchi to discuss Rainere and Asahara. Dont' see that happening.
Care to address Beger, Alchi?
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.