I started applying self forgiveness in November of 2007 after seeing videos by Desteni Universe, often referred to as a 'cult', and spent much of myself writing on paper and sharing very little of what I wrote.

In the beginning...

When I first began applying self forgiveness and self honesty I took adderall for ADHD and was addicted to pain medication and gambling, all of which was constant thought patterns throughout my day, every day. Since beginning applying self forgiveness and self honesty I no longer experience any of these patterns within me. I havn't taken adderall in 9 months and no longer have any desires for pain medication and it's been at least 7 months since I gambled in any way. I have lived how self honesty and self forgiveness can and does effect and release these patterns when applied effectively. It is amazing.
Applying self forgiveness within self honesty is effective in assisting me to see myself within this moment within myself as the words I am speaking which is me. My words assist me to see all that I have accepted and allowed within myself as a 'mind consciousness system', so to assist me to stop my participations within thoughts, feelings, and emotions/reactions and direct myself within the principle of equality here within this moment of me.

What I am experiencing within me in this moment of writing this is just this sense that I must write. I am experiencing myself quieter within me and find myself having no idea what I am going to write when I begin to write. I have been taking an online course at desteni universe, it's called 'structural resonance alignment training' and it involves muscle communication and so within clearing points of suppression within me, I am beginning to experience subtle changes within myself. I just began this a couple of months ago and it is very assisting and may be sharing some of that here as well.

I understand why people call Desteni a cult, though what I have honestly found is more genuine support than I could ever ask for from all there. I have never had anyone lead me to 'believe' a certain way or 'act' a certain way and the material is 'common sense'.

Thankyou for allowing me to share.

[Moderator's note: This thread was closed to concentrate the discussion at one thread. If you are interested in reviewing and/or participating in the current discussion about Destini click on the link below.]

[forum.culteducation.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/2010 02:36AM by rrmoderator.

The opening post in this thread seems to be a testimonial for Desteni, perhaps as an attempt to counter critcisms levelled at that group in previous dicussions on this forum at [forum.culteducation.com]

All of the following words and phrases have been invented or appropriated by Bernard Poolman of Desteni to describe the Desteni 'process':

'common sense', 'support', 'structural resonance alignment', 'points of suppression', 'mind consciousness system', 'assist', 'applying self forgiveness', 'self honesty', 'applying self forgiveness within self honesty', 'principle of equality'.

There are more, but these are the ones used in the post in question.

While these words and phrases may have ordinary meanings or applications, in the context of Desteni they are pure jargon serving as emotive signifiers pertaining to active involvement in the Desteni group, and little else.

The article, 'Warning Signs' at [www.culteducation.com] begins with a quote from Margaret Singer, Ph.D, author of 'Cults in Our Midst'. She explains that potentially unsafe groups or leaders 'come off very nice at first, they go for vulnerable people who are looking for answers, lonely, what you'd call 'normal people.' They're very good at what they do and can get people to believe anything. You might think you'd never get taken in, but don't bet on it.'

Under the list of 'Ten warning signs regarding people involved in/with a potentially unsafe group/leader' point 4 mentions 'Uncharacteristically stilted and seemingly programmed conversation and mannerisms, cloning of the group/leader in personal behavior'.

Repetition of the group/leader's jargon would come into this category.

It is well known that cults target people with social problems. In some cases they can actually help. However, they ultimately replace them with a different set of problems brought about by the social conditioning of the cult.

Information available on the web suggests that other points on the list of warning signs which stand out as typical of Desteni include:

No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.

Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.

Extreme obsessiveness regarding the group/leader resulting in the exclusion of almost every practical consideration.

Whenever the group/leader is criticized or questioned it is characterized as "persecution".

Dependency upon the group/leader for problem solving, solutions, and definitions without meaningful reflective thought. A seeming inability to think independently or analyze situations without group/leader involvement.

Hyperactivity centered on the group/leader agenda, which seems to supercede any personal goals or individual interests.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/04/2010 08:00PM by Sandman.

I have no dependency upon anyone. I made this post to share my experience of myself and how I welcome these changes within me that I have been experiencing since I became self honest with myself and started applying self forgiveness. I am being self honest when I say that I no longer gamble and I no longer take drugs and interestingly enough, I no longer desire to in any way. You do not and can not know my experience and you are judging me, so please do not assume you know me, as you don't. If desteni were gone tomorrow, I would not be affected in any way, I would however continue applying self honesty and self forgiveness. I am gratefull for their assistance as it has assisted me to see me, that's all. I am Not 'dependent' upon them. I am only sharing my experiences, not trying to sway someone to 'believe' a certain way or trying to create 'fear', as all should see for themselves who they are through their own experiences. Yes, common sense.
thanks Cathy

Of course it is impossible for me to make any personal judgement about you, Cathy. I have not even attempted to do so, but have pointed out the way in which you have employed jargon invented by Bernard Poolman of Desteni, and how Desteni operates as a group.

It is also impossible in this circumstance for another person to make a proper evaluation of your references to giving up gambling or drug-taking. Such experiences cannot be understood just from reading one or two brief written statements. The Church of Scientology weans some people off gambling and drugs, but the Church of Scientology is probably the most well-known destructive cult on the planet. A person could give up addictions for a variety of reasons, perhaps because they got bored with them.

If Desteni disappeared tomorrow there would be no context for anyone to 'apply self honesty and self forgiveness'. That practice only exists in the Desteni group, as does the concept of 'structural resonance alignment'. Inevitably, those who had taken part in it would move on to other things. Hopefully, they would be brave enough to start to think and speak for themselves.

Desteni is not a charitable public service to help cure people of addiction. If it wants to be then it needs to present evidence of its legal and professional status and qualifications. No, Desteni is a group with a very peculiar philosophy constructed out of a reinterpretation of occultism, spiritualism, conspiracy theories and New Ageism. It has a leader at its center and its mode of operation suggests it may be a potentially destructive cult.

Everyone uses 'jargon' as a characterized manner of speaking sandman, even you. The words I use are 'my' words that I am choosing in this moment. Words are who we all are. The manner of 'addiction' causes one to progress to other forms of 'addiction' in which one goes from one to another. What I am speaking of is the want, need, and desire to pursue something outside of oneself to fullfill something within that one senses is missing. Maybe you have never experienced what I'm speaking but I can assure you 'self honesty' and 'self forgiveness' when applied effectively releases such behaviors. This I have walked and shown for 'myself'.

I find it interesting that you say if desteni disappeared there would be no context for anyone to apply 'self honesty' and 'self forgiveness'. So what you are saying is you see no need for 'self honesty' and 'self forgiveness'. In this world that we exist in, I can see nothing more beneficial for ones self than 'self honesty' and 'self forgiveness' with 'self'. I don't need a 'website to know this and I do speak for myself and I live on the other side of the world from Bernard Poolman. It seems you are more interested in him than I am which clearly shows a sign of 'addictive behavior' within you. Nothing personal but you know not of that which you speak. You by your own definitiion show signs of destructive 'cult' behavior. I came here to share, you come here to prove wrongs of others.

Cathykrafft:

Have you given any money to desteni?

Have you done volunteer work for the group?

How is the group governed? Is there a democratically elected board, or is it run by an individual like a for-profit business?

How does Bernard Poolman support himself?

I just began sra class 2 months ago that I chose to begin to assist myself in 'muscle communication' which has already assisted me. So yes I have just began paying less than you would believe for these services that I chose for myself. No one forced me and this class is similar to kinesiolgy classes yet substantially less expensive and more effective. I did alot of research before choosing to take this class, the benefits are outstanding. I have and know more people who give more money to church's than I will be giving toward this class. If you do not want me here sharing that is fine but there is no bizarre behaviors or a democratically elected board at desteni. They are people, just like me and you. They assist where they are able and visa versa, so yes I have volunteerd in helping others on the forum where I could assist from my own personal experiences. I do not know how Bernard supports himself. I suppose most of us make money at one point or another in our way of seeing ourself as support for others. How do you support yourself?

Cathykrafft:

In your research have you come across a scientific study regarding destini, which has been peer reviewed and then published by a credible journal concerning the results that you have claimed?

How are claimed results proven other than through anecdotal personal stories?

If there is no elected board than is it fair to surmise that destini is essentially a privately controlled business? Or does it somehow have nonprofit and tax-exempted status?

How are the people that run destini accountable?

Are they licensed or board certified?

Are there educational requirements (e.g. accredited college degree) required before someone can run a destini program?

What educational or professional requirements exist at destini regarding its volunteers?

Do volunteers make up a large part of the working staff at destini?

I have personally walked a case study as 'myself'. lol, The claimed results proven that I have seen are based on my own experiences which are more significant to me than anyone 'licensed' or 'board certified'. I speak only for myself when I tell of my reasons for visiting desteni website and taking the sra class. It is highly effective as a means of self support. I am living proof for 'myself' and for no one else. When one can see this effectiveness within themself one doesn't require what you are asking. It really is 'self discovery' free from interpretations and titles and forensic evidence. I have had many licensed and board certified specialist fall short of assisting me with 'real change within 'myself'. This is a personal journey that one can only do for ones self.

Cathykrafft:

So then you are admitting that there is no objective evidence of any meaningful results. And that nothing has been independently verified through any scientific study, which has then been peer-reviewed and published within a credible journal.

And there is no meaningful accountability for destini staff through any regulatory licensing, certification, nor required accredited education.

Whatever it is therefore that you believe is "proven," this is only through your personal subjective experience. Nothing more than anecdotal evidence.

Are the classes at destini at least accredited by some outside credible educational organization or body. If so please specifically name it.

You offered an analogy that included "church," which seems to imply that destini is comparable to some a faith-based religious experience, rather than anything scientifically measurable.

Has destini then applied for and/or received church tax-exempt status?

Is Bernard Poolman somehow ordained?



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/06/2010 02:22AM by rrmoderator.