HM2X, awesome stuff!
Its amazing how their catch-phrases can even be used to locate Gurus.

These cultish sects try to use a fig-leaf of "anger" to misdirect people, and to try and make them more PASSIVE by saying anger is fear.
There is no anger in this thread. Its ASSERTIVENESS. There is no anger in assertiveness, its very healthy.
And healthy anger is used to repel those who are trying to manipulate you.

Try approaching a well-trained dog that does not want you to approach them, to see assertivness in action...they growl and sneer a bit as a warning, and will escalate their signs to tell you to GET LOST, if they don't want you around. Dogs are smart.

These cultish sects always want to passify people, to make them into good sheep who follow commands.
So when they get hit with healthy assertiveness, they start screaming about anger, and fear, and to passify yourself.
Byron Katie does it, they all do it.
Because when people are assertive, trained in the techniques, and know what is going on, they are out of business.
Whenever any cultish sect tries those techniques to a trained person, they are in serious trouble, its game over.
Its the Gurus and their apologists who are TERRIFIED and AFRAID of assertiveness. If someone is assertive in one of their seminars, they will KICK THEM OUT. They only want passified sheeple in their seminars, who do what they are told. As soon as a person stands up for themselves, they will try to beat them down. If that doesn't work, they kick them out.
That's how it always works.

In this thread, the apologist was afraid of mentioning a specific Guru as they fear critical thinking applied to the house of cards most Gurus are living in.




OSHO Rajneesh was one of the worst, of course. Brainwashing, sexual abuses, mass druggings, poisonings...
Followers of Rajneesh to this day still don't seem to realize that they were probably DRUGGED by the Osho/Rajneesh goonsquad, in those all night ecstatic meditation sessions. To this day there are people posting about it...they can't seem to realize that they were most likely DRUGGED by those Osho manics. They would regulary poison people, never mind "merely" drug them.


Osho / Rajneesh MDMA Ecstacy [forum.culteducation.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/06/2010 05:20AM by The Anticult.

Quote

Yes. The "Dr." also insisted that hostility was really fear. How about hostility is hostility and fear is fear? How about distinguishing them? How about having them co-exist, rather than one canceling the other out?

So, so true. But the strategy is all about making people feel they don't know which side is up. They don't know what they are feeling, so they need a guru to tell them. And isn't it worth $5000-$10,000 to "finally" learn the "truth?"

I have been told that boredom is really fear, depression is anger, anger is fear, fear is anger... makes you wonder why we have specific words for these things, if they all mean something else. What is the point of language if meanings are so hidden? But the gurus all love to mess with the language, change meanings, make up special jargon, use oxymorons ad nauseum (like "good manipulation") etc.

I had a relative who would tell people they didn't know their own thoughts. She would literally say, no that's not what you were thinking. You were thinking so and so. And it was very damaging to anyone who was in personal contact with her. I developed depersonalization disorder in adolescence but did not connect the dots.

This is so insidious, because when you become confused about who you are and what you are feeling, you are much more vulnerable to all kinds of manipulation techniques.

The past couple of weeks reading these threads has meant a lot to me, as I have a much better understanding of my vulnerabilities to different types of persuasion. With all that is going on with James Ray and the "Secret" gurus losing some credibility, they will just try to adapt by adopting other strategies, maybe a more logical, skeptical tone, so beware! These people are extremely adaptable, and if their "livelihood" is being threatened, I'm sure they'll try anything.

Quote
LoriW
The past couple of weeks reading these threads has meant a lot to me, as I have a much better understanding of my vulnerabilities to different types of persuasion. With all that is going on with James Ray and the "Secret" gurus losing some credibility, they will just try to adapt by adopting other strategies, maybe a more logical, skeptical tone, so beware! These people are extremely adaptable, and if their "livelihood" is being threatened, I'm sure they'll try anything.

There certainly are some clever people out there who can smile, laugh, communicate intelligently, and seem to care about you a good deal.... but if you catch them at scamming/harming you and call them on it, they can turn into absolute c*#ts in an instant. I speak from first-hand experience.

It's been such a blessing to find this forum. Hopefully I will be much less likely to get taken by someone in future because of the things I've been learning. I particularly appreciate the very hard work that people like "The Anticult" and "Corboy" have put forth, and for no charge. Imagine that!

Quote
The Anticult
OSHO Rajneesh was one of the worst, of course. Brainwashing, sexual abuses, mass druggings, poisonings...

A little bit about Osho -- aka Rajneesh -- through the eyes of a former follower, who could only partially acknowledge Rajneesh's harmfulness:

[[url=http://www.quackwatch.com/11Ind/gordon3.html]www.quackwatch.com[/url]]

Quote
Hope
...how they twist small kernels of valid methods and teaching to get the most out of their customers financially, without any accountability and without disregard for the well being of other people.
...
In the end, the instigator, like so many others that so many here are familiar with, instead of maybe taking a look at their own behavior, asks what we are so afraid of, why are we hostile. That's straight out of the narcissist's training manual.

This gets to the heart of the matter to me. Forums such as this aren't about who is a "true teacher," but about how kernels of useful spiritual and therapeutic truths and techniques are used by coercive groups and their leaders are to manipulate and control others.

Fascinating research, @helpme2times.

An additional danger of A.B. Curtiss' advice is that someone reading such advice who is currently taking psychopharmaceutical medication for depression or bipolar illness might decide to abruptly cease taking their medication. Compliance with medication protocols is a very common problem for those with depression and bipolar. Cutting off medication all at once can itself be a cause of depressive and/or manic episodes.

Often someone with bipolar will get on meds and then have a manic episode or start healing, then willfully decide that they no longer need the very drugs that are making them feel better. Since there is often a several week delay before meds kick in, and often several different meds need to be tried (or different dosages) before the patient finds something that works for them with minimal side-effects, such rash decisions can totally disrupt the healing process.

While I personally believe antidepressants are over-prescribed and don't get at the root causes of many mental illnesses, I strongly recommend that those diagnosed with major depression or bipolar work with their doctor and therapist in a rational, long-term plan for sustained mental health. Continue to take all of your medications unless advised to reduce your dosages by your health professionals.

For those interested on the off-topic subject of antidepressants, the blog "Neuroskeptic" has some excellent coverage of antidepressant drug research from a neuroscientist: [neuroskeptic.blogspot.com]

...and now back to your regularly scheduled cult education.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2010 11:35AM by buffman.

Sorry Buffman, I nearly forgot to answer you....

I recall at least one participant in a Byron Katie event reporting that quite a few fellow participants had suddenly stopped their medication -- as if BK's approach were a panacea. That's very scary.

I'm very curious to read about A.B. Curtiss' non-drug "cure" for depression. I've just obtained a copy of her book and am eager to go through it. However, I've also gotten hold of a few other books by some people discussed in another thread, and I would like to check those out first. All in good time.

(Thankfully I've spent very little on these books. Either they've come from the library or are inexpensive used copies.)

I want to know if anyone has info on an alleged attempt to poison a city water supply by the rajneesh group?
I acnt find very good data on the net and am concerned media reports may be bias.
Maybe someone here has 1st hand knowledge.
thnx

mazinaw:

See [www.culteducation.com]

The "cult" was involved in quite a bit of criminal activity before Rajneesh was forced to leave the US.

Why would anyone see news reports that detail the criminal activity of this group, subsequent prosecutions and convictions as "biased"?

There is tons of accurate information about Rajneesh group and the poisonings.
Of course the current OSHO/Rajneesh cult is going to try and do propaganda to deny everything. That group had no qualms about drugging and even poisoning people.


Search Google for:

rajneesh poison water Oregon


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Bioterrorism in Oregon [www.efilmgroup.com]
The Truth Emerges
...state police obtained warrants to search the compound, including their sophisticated medical clinic where they discovered a clandestine laboratory that had been used to prepare germ cultures. There, police discovered glass vials containing salmonella bactrol disks which proved to be of the same strain that had contaminated The Dalles the previous year.

That wasn’t all they found. They also discovered invoices showing the cult had purchased such dangerous pathogens as Salmonella typhi, which can be cultured to cause typhoid fever, francisella tularensis, which causes tularemia, as well as several others. The germs had been bought in the name of Rajneesh Medical Corporation from commercial medical supply companies, who provide them for research and standard diagnostic tests, and would have been considered unnecessary in the Rajneesh laboratory. The pathogens were never found.

Several cult members began to talk. A story emerged of the commune’s determination to win the county election at any cost. Within the inner circle, two highly ranked women, known as Sheela and Ma Anand Puja, liked the idea of incapacitating non-Rajneeshees at election time to prevent them from being able to vote and thereby influencing the outcome of the election. Hepatitis and typhoid were considered; so was the idea of putting dead rodents in the water supply. Eventually the women settled on Salmonella typhinurium and ordered germ disks from a Seattle-based medical supply company. The germs were cultured to produce quantities of the bacteria.

Eventually Sheela and Ma Anand Puja confessed to plotting to poison the county commissioners in 1983 and to contaminate salad bars in The Dalles in 1984. Prosecutors believe the cult also carried out similar attacks in other Oregon towns and cities which were never discovered. According to testimony, cult members sprinkled “salsa” on lettuce and other fruits and vegetables and put salmonella in restaurant coffee creamers and salad dressings. The Rajneeshees reported that they were more than willing to sacrifice one thousand “unenlightened people” to preserve the vision of one “enlightened master.”
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