Here's more advertising copy for Dave Lakhani – Renegades of Persuasion [www.tactools.org] that comes up from a Google blog search.

Notice the brazen upselling technique described precisely in the other thread SUBLIMINAL PERSUASION [forum.culteducation.com] as seen in his marketing...

- "The Revelation of Material Too Controversial For Dave’s Latest Book".
- "I’ve asked every speaker to reveal at least one technique that the hold back and save for their high priced consulting clients only"

That is at the level of a Joe Vitale, do people really fall for that one?
They are just trolling for people who are naive and believe that the DANGEROUS material was censored out of the book, (of course it wasn't) and can only be bought for tens of thousands of dollars in private "consulting". That is code for trolling for easy targets, who are going to get cleaned out, and spend way more than a mere 3 grand at a weekend seminar.
They will charge that person as much as they will spend, literally, and it can go on for months and for years.
This is not a game, this happens all the time.




________QUOTE excerpt for educational research and textual analysis____________
Here Is A Short List Of What You’re About To Learn:

- Applied Psychological Persuasion and Influence

- Leveraging The Manipulated Mind

- Principles Of Personal Branding

- The Latest Psychological Research As It Relates To Persuasion and Mass Influence

- How To Create Crowds

[...]

- Applied Propaganda ...

- Mass Influence Strategies

- Covert Persuasion

- The Revelation of Material Too Controversial For Dave’s Latest Book

- How to persuade people who don’t want to be persuaded

- Persuasive memetics as well as an overview of memetics and why understanding memetics is important to the persuader

- The Campfire Persuasion Strategy

- The Pinata Persuasion Principle

- How to integrate persuasion with sales and negotiations

- How to leverage persuasion strategies and technologies to sell more the worse the economy gets

- The Emotional Trigger Method

- How To Create and Use Transformational Mechanisms

- Proxemics Skinetics

- Learn What Three Things EVERYONE Wants And Can’t Live Without

- BONUS: I’ve asked every speaker to reveal at least one technique that the hold back and save for their high priced consulting clients only
_______________________________________

Quote
The Anticult
Anyone who is referring people to the "New CAN" is either completely clueless and doesn't know what the hell they are talking about, or they are in the cult apologist business.

A little more regarding Dave's reference to the shady Cult Awareness Network, aka CAN....

A blog called "The Truth Is The Secret" -- which links directly to Dave Lakhani's "Bold Approach" site when you click on "About" -- says in one of the entries that Dave is "considered one of the nation's top experts on ethical and unethical cult profileration."

Considered an expert by whom?

I've read a lot about cults in recent years and I've never heard of him 'til this week.

Also, I wonder how a bona fide cult expert could not know about the current status of CAN?

I certainly know about it and I'm not an expert.

Good afternoon, everyone.

I applaud the first postings on this thread by Anticult and Buffman. Directly questioning and engaging a schooled manipulator is what I personally call "walking into the lions den", which I won't do at this point. Myself, I got a massive goddam headache trying to read the last post by Lakhani, on the other thread, and had to stop trying. I perceive that it might be a new internal reaction to the techniques discussed here. Actually I was going to ask if anyone else had that reaction, when I was distracted.

In time, I would like to have the power (strength, ability, knowlege) to personally and directly answer to the attempts to manipulate me. I take it personally when apologists or, amazingly, those who are apologized for come to these threads to subvert the work being done. I look forward to having the ability through the reading, listening and self observation (I guess I would have to call that personal growth) to stand up to this manipulation with vigor, much like you people are doing.

I appreciate your doing it in my stead, for the present.

qd

Quackdave,

I found this book useful years ago in helping me to learn about logical fallacies and argumentation:
[books.google.com]

Informal logic: a handbook for critical argumentation
By Douglas N. Walton

And no upsells to expensive LGATs! :)

Quote
buffman
Quackdave,

I found this book useful years ago in helping me to learn about logical fallacies and argumentation:
[books.google.com]

Along the same lines, here is a helpful web page:

[[url=http://www.xenu.net/archive/baloney_detection.html]Operation Clambake Presents: Carl Sagan's Baloney Detection Kit[/url]]

That is an interesting find, it looks like the little blog www.thetruthisthesecret.com is actually run by Dave Lakhani, based around a critique of The Secret, which of course is also being used as a self-marketing tool.

Interestingly, there is a direct link to a Lakhani post [boldapproach.typepad.com] about Tom Cruise, Scientology, and the book by Andrew Morton, and how L Ron Hubbard was close friends with Werner Erhard from Landmark and how Landmark is run by Werner's brother, which is all correct.

Now who is talking about paranoid conspiracy theories? His pet-theory was that Scientology was actually somehow behind the Morton book on Tom Cruise!
QUOTE: [boldapproach.typepad.com] "There is a very high likelihood that this is a well coordinated effort by the Church of Scientology to get more publicity or to fully leverage the awareness that they know this will cause".

That is not likely in the least, frankly, so it does make one wonder.
For example, if he did recommend the CAN group which is now run by Scientology, and in that blog post says he is does not support Scientology, does that make sense?
It sounds like a big blunder, actually.

But he does again repeat his method of creating controversy and polarizing people, intentionally.


So quackdave, when your eyes are glazing over and you feel like you are getting a "massive goddam headache" from reading a professional Applied Propagandists writing, that is a signal.
I will go through the Lakhani post soon as well, in detail.


Dave Lakhani does have some knowledge of persuasion, but at the same time is making some serious blunders, and there are some serious cracks in his stories.

Another technique to watch out for, that comes from Richard Bandler, are persuaders who suggest they are doing super-complex persuasion technques to you you can't understand, when in fact those are just mistakes they are making, or random noise.
Dave Lakhani tries that method as well at times.


So again, its not about saying anything "personally" about Dave Lakhani.
Its about very carefully analyzing what he is selling professionally for money, and what he is doing, and using it as an object lesson.
But take note of the first warning I gave, and that is that those who sell persuasion as "content" always have a meta-content they are running simultaneously.
So that can be far trickier than someone selling Quantum Physics mindpower, or Non-duality, who is also running persuasion techniques.

Its far trickier when someone is selling some alleged persuasion techniques and at the same time DOING other persuasion techniques to you at the same time, that you cannot see. That is primarily what Richard Bandler does, for example.
For example, this other Dave Lakhani persuasion site is loaded top to bottom with those techniques, while allegedly selling persuasion to people. www.masterpersuasionnow.com


But Dave Lakhani is not at that level, even though he is trying to market himself as such, as he is making some very obvious blunders.
Why is he not coming up on any of the NLP sites? Who did he allegedly get certified in NLP from?
It will be interesting to see what Richard Bandler or John La Valle have to say about Dave Lakhani or if they've even heard of him.

Quote
helpme2times

Quote
The Anticult
Anyone who is referring people to the "New CAN" is either completely clueless and doesn't know what the hell they are talking about, or they are in the cult apologist business.

A little more regarding Dave's reference to the shady Cult Awareness Network, aka CAN....

A blog called "The Truth Is The Secret" -- which links directly to Dave Lakhani's "Bold Approach" site when you click on "About" -- says in one of the entries that Dave is "considered one of the nation's top experts on ethical and unethical cult profileration."

Considered an expert by whom?

I've read a lot about cults in recent years and I've never heard of him 'til this week.

Also, I wonder how a bona fide cult expert could not know about the current status of CAN?

I certainly know about it and I'm not an expert.

Believe it or not, I did not realize that CAN was taken over by Scientologists or I wouldn't have recommended it. Completely my mistake. So, thanks for pointing that out, while I did mention in the interview I did CAN, I typically refer people to Rick Ross. So, good to know.

If you want to have a legal argument, let's do it, identify yourself and we'll continue.

I'd like you to present evidence proving that I did in fact include all of the material that I'm suggesting I didn't in the book, please present that proof. You won't be able to because there was considerable concern about some of the material I wanted to cover and it didn't go in. For example, some of the material revolved around military psychological operations against populations. Additionally, believe it or not, there are specific marketing and sales techniques that I do reserve for my consulting clients because they are the ones who pay me. I don't reveal all of my methodologies in my books because many of them make up the processes I use to help companies grow.

And, to be sure, many people on your hit parade (whom I regularly criticize as well) do in fact continually upsell people into mindless programs that don't do anything. Until you audit one of my high priced programs ($3000 to learn how to build a speaking business is hardly considered high priced) then everything you say is based at best on your best guess about what happens. Be factual or clearly identify that what you are saying is at best your guess about what happens at my events.

Sorry to disappoint you guys, but I took many courses on cult investigation while I worked in law enforcement, particularly satanic groups and conducted investigations. I've also instructed at the college level and have been an expert witness on cults, all of those things would qualify me as an expert. Not to mention the fact that I've spend 27 years studying cults, particularly religious cults, mass influence and persuasion.

Despite your best efforts you've yet to demonstrate that I've done anything other than speak on stages you disapprove of and use marketing language you disapprove of. You have yet do demonstrate in any significant way that I've done anything other than what I've suggested, to teach people how to leverage psychological principles of persuasion effectively and how to know when they are being influenced by them. If you see that as being inappropriate, that is your issue.

In terms of posting a torrent of any of my programs, I find it deplorable that the person who suggested it wasn't immediately kicked off the forum by the moderator and the post taken down. It is illegal to do so and a violation of federal law. I think it is interesting that a moderated forum lets these kind of ideas be published as they clearly put the forum at Rickross.com at risk of a lawsuit.

So, if you don't have the spine to identify yourself and talk to me in public because you are so afraid of me, then as far as I'm concerned, this conversation is over. Or, we could just have Rick Ross himself moderate the conversation and you can identify yourself by your avatars if it makes you feel safer.

If I ever see one of my programs up on a torrent site, I'll have my attorney start his research with Rickross.com records and will identify you since you've now moved into threatening my business, my income and my intellectual property.

Sad really, I'm on your side and have done my best to help thousands of people see where they've been manipulated and taught them how to avoid it and help even more learn how to do sales and marketing effectively and appropriately. If you are too narrow minded to see the difference then enjoy yourselves here, my work and my reputation stands on its own.

This is to reinforce the WARNING [forum.culteducation.com] put out about the methods and tactics of Dave Lakhani in a previous post.
Of course that warning was 100% correct, and here is the evidence.
There is much more evidence than this, but this gets to the direct point.

___________QUOTE__________________
Dave Lakhani Speakersite [www.speakersite.com]
QUOTE by Dave Lakhani:
"I'm also one of the world's fastest hypnotists and can put people into trance in seconds."
"I'm also one of the world's fastest hypnotists and can put people into trance in seconds."

______________________________________

Would you like to get put into a trance on the telephone in seconds?
Does that appeal to you?
Do you know what that means, how its done, and how that increases suggestibility?
Why do professional persuaders post their direct telephone number like this?

WARNING: Do not call them on the phone.
This applies across the board to those who say they sell persuasion for a living, and to those who conceal it, and to those who do both. They are trained professionals, who know exactly what they are doing.
This is not just about one persuader, but about how many persuaders operate.

...take note of the serious WARNING in previous posts, about being extremely cautious when "talking in person" or on the phone, to these kinds of professional advanced persuaders. Remember, they do this professionally for a living, and some have done it for decades. This is a SERIOUS warning about calling up a professional persuader/manipulator on the phone.

And don't step into the ring with a blackbelt in Taekwondo either, unless you want to get knocked Unconscious in seconds, without knowing what hit you. Its the same thing.


What is Dave Lakhani really doing? [forum.culteducation.com]

Here is the danger and WARNING about guys like Dave Lakhani [forum.culteducation.com]

Don't go into a one-on-one meeting or phone-call with them, unless you have at least 10+ years experience in persuasion. [forum.culteducation.com]



HOW TO NOT GET KNOCKED OUT: (cross-post)
Would you get into a sparring ring with a blackbelt in Taekwondo, when you've never practiced martial arts? What if the guy inviting you into the ring, had a big smile on his face?
What if the blackbelt Taekwondo expert was wearing a nice sweater, and pretended he wasn't a blackbelt, would you Voluntarily walk into the ring?
What if he told you that Taekwondo is not as effective as everyone thinks...and to not look at the 900 lb gorilla in the room and instead to direct your Attention to where he is putting it now? ..that's right...

Would you like to get knocked Unconscious in seconds by this person? You will literally not even see it coming.
Beware, as those who are professional and experts, can literally have you in a submission hold in minutes if not SECONDS.

Dave Lakhani talks in his writings about inducing trance rapidly, and some of these guys know they can use those techniques in literally minutes. Watch out.

QUOTE by Dave Lakhani:
- "I'm also one of the world's fastest hypnotists and can put people into trance in seconds."

The entire point of many recent threads, is exploring the precise techniques used by persuasion experts person to person, in what appears to be "normal conversation". That is conversational trance and hypno-persuasion, and its very powerful and effective, especially when the guy who is doing it to you, tells you its NOT that effective.
(normally they just say it doesn't exist, at the exact same time they are doing it to you).
Or like Byron Katie, they say reality doesn't exist, while they are doing it to you.

The Taekwondo martial artist inviting you into the ring using deception and misdirection, is the professional persuasion expert who's studied all of the techniques in the world, inviting you to phone him, to have a "conversation"...conversational hypnosis and persuasion..that is.
You don't stand a chance, unless you are too a blackbelt, and you will not know what hit you, until you are knocked out, and then its a bit late.

Its very unfortunate there are not more people in the marketplace, who are willing to actually teach the public how others are "putting them into a trance in seconds", and what that means, and exactly how it works.

The problem is that those who know how to do it, do it to make money and they are not going to cut their own nose off.
And there appears to be no serious money to be made educating the general public in psychological self-defense.
And those who do speak-out about cultic persuasion usually don't know anything about it, as they have not done the advanced training in this area.

And those who do the advanced training, usually cross-over to the dark side, as they see...holy crap, I can make serious money doing this to other people!

Its a bit of a closed loop.

ImthatDave:

No one on this message board has any obligation whatsoever to disclose their personal information or identity to you.

Arguments can be made regarding an issue on this message board without necessitating such a disclosure.

Either the argument and citation facts that support it are compelling, or they are not, regardless of who posts the material.