If any or all of what Guy Finley expresses doesn't agree with you . . . . . it doesn't agree. No big deal. . . . but . . . . you seem to have an ax to grind for Guy Finley Anticult. It appears from how you describe your view of Life Of Learning you haven't actually heard any of his talks. . . or if you have . . . it appears we interpret them very differently. Such is life.

I don't hear Finley making or implying any promises for any miraculous cures for anyone . . . . is it not up to the individual to take in or reject any idea or thought?

Do you think you're saving the world from Guy Finley?

Who's playing Jedi here ?

meatpopsicle:

Please avoid personal attacks against members of this message board, which is against the rules you agreed to before posting here.

No big deal? On the contrary; YES, big deal. Methinks the 2-posting apologist doth protest too obviously.

qd

Its not about saving the world from Guy Finley.
Its about Guy Finley starting to be honest and tell the truth, and opening up the financial statements.

For example, who is on the board of directors for the Life Of Learning "Foundation"? (Its in fact registered as a church).
Who is Christine Roberts, who is listed as the owner?
Where are the audited financial statements, so people can see where the donation money is being spent?


And Guy Finley and Jeff Roberts make VERY extreme health claims of what Guy Finley can do.

QUOTE from Guy Finley marketing:
- "Free Yourself From All Stress, Fear, and Anxiety"
- "Find a Contentment, Security, and Success That Can Never Be Taken Away"

Stress and anxiety are psychological and medical issues, and Guy Finley is literally claiming to be able to completely cure them. Is that even legal? To make a medical claim about stress like that?

Guy Finley claims he can heal stress and says... “Broken Heart Syndrome is what is behind stress-induced heart failure.”
Guy Finley is now diagnosing the cause of heart attacks? Is he a MD doctor too?
Where are the controlled studies, that show Guy Finley's method can end ALL stress? There are none. Meanwhile, there are many other treatments that do have evidence showing they work for stress to a degree.
But Guy Finley has no evidence, just Stories, which is the same sales method as Byron Katie.
Vague stories and anecdotes.


Anyone can see that Guy Finley is using the identical technique as Byron Katie. He is saying he can teach you the "lost secrets" of stopping ALL SUFFERING.
That is a mirage, that is a fraud.
Guy Finley knows full well it is impossible to stop ALL stress, fear, and anxiety. That is impossible, and its also very dangerous to try to ignore your healthy natural impulses. People need to have healthy fear in life, otherwise they are going to get scammed by smooth-talking New Wage salesmen, and even worse. Healthy fear can save your life, and has for many people. Those who ignore their healthy fear could risk their lives, and can also be set-up to be cleaned-out by slick confidence-artists.

That is the identical pattern Byron Katie uses, to try to turn off and minimize people's natural and healthy concerns about what she is doing to them. Guy Finley is doing a similar method.
When in fact, when a healthy person looks at Guy Finley's system, they immediately see red flags flying, about the extreme claims being made, the selling of countless products, and the deliberate hiding of relevant financial information, with a focus on pushing donations.
A healthy natural response to Guy Finley is...who is this slick marketer? How is he selling what he is selling?
He is trying to exploit the Pain-Pleasure responses in people.

Once people become very relaxed, and have their natural BS detectors shut-down at the Guy Finley seminars, then what? Then the massive "donations" system kicks in.
Meanwhile, people are not given ANY information about where the money is used, and who the money is going to. All of that information is being concealed by Guy Finley.
And any "foundation" or church which hides the money trail, is doing it for a reason, as the money is being misused.
Otherwise, they would openly publish the financial statements, and not conceal them.




Guy Finley also claims right on his webpages to be able to help people with "suicide", as well as every other problem of the human condition.
What training or licensing does Guy Finley have to deal with people who are suicidal?

Its the identical pattern of many other Enlightenment Salesmen. They set up a salespitch where they make you believe they can end ALL your suffering, and cure all your problems...if only you buy their products, and attend their seminars.
Then they use many subtle methods to make people feel they are in the "group", and exploit those impulses for massive financial "donations".
They also register themselves as a church, to avoid taxes and anyone knowing where the money is going.
Guy Finley also uses unpaid labor to do most of the work, just like other sects.

The only thing different about Guy Finley, is he and his people are more clever than most, and he is an expert at the smooth soft-sell in his public materials.
But those guy are raking in millions, as they are pushing even on their website to get people to hand over entire Estates.

No one should ever hand over their entire Estate, or even $1 to a church like the Life Of Learning Foundation, when the group refuses to publish ANY audited financial records.
If they were honest, they would voluntarily submit the IRS 990 Form, or have everything audited, and then openly publish everything on their website.
But they try to conceal everything, and even pretend it doesn't exist, using flowery words.

The sad thing is that many in the New Age area fall for it, and no one has even asked who is Christine Roberts, or why no information is available about what is going on behind the scenes.

Guy Finley announces on his website that he is in the "hit" movie...
Beyond the Law of Attraction [www.amazon.com]

First off, its not a hit movie, its a total dud, that is produced on-demand on DVD-R.
Amazon.com Sales Rank: #132,903 in Movies & TV

They just tried to cash-in on the LOA craze, and it didn't work.
More LOA salesmanship.


___________reference________________
Beyond the Law of Attraction
[www.amazon.com]
Actors: Guy Finley, Oren Harris, Beth McCain, Lee McCain, Satyen Raja
Directors: Lee McCain
Writers: Beth McCain, Lee McCain
Producers: Lee McCain, Beth, Janet Birnes, David Hudspeth
Format: NTSC
Region: All Regions
Studio: Sky Blue Aura Pictures
DVD Release Date: May 18, 2009
Run Time: 81 minutes
ASIN: B002A9JXRU

There is a book by Guy Finley called The Essential Laws of Fearless Living.
They even have an extremely slick and highly manipulative website. www.essentiallaws.org just full of all sorts of sales and marketing techniques. They even offer "152 FREE GIFTS".
These folks know what they are doing, in terms of internet marketing and the psychology of sales.


The book open with a list In Gratitude, and its just a bunch of initials, like VH, JC, (Vernon Howard, Jesus Christ), you are supposed to guess the rest?

He opens the book, advertising his other CD programs and books, which he names and lists. So on PAGE ONE of the book, he is already cross-selling 3 CD programs, and 3 books.
And those programs cross-sell 3 more, and so on.
The SOURCES for the book, the biblography, list 10 more programs, all published by the Life Of Learning Foundation (church).
So this one book, upsells you to at least 16 more Guy Finley products. What a salesman.


He closes the book, with another salespitch to the LOLF, with more deceptive noninformation about the LOLF. He then pitches you the websites, and invites you to come to the LOL retreats.

Guy Finley utilizes Reciporicty, by offering a "gift" if you phone in, and ask for it. Guess what, then they get your full name, address, phone number, email and whatever else they can get.


What is this book, The Essential Laws of Fearless Living?
Its basically a cross between Eckhart Tolle "no mind" with Byron Katie Storytelling. Its simple a series of STORIES, with all sorts of embedded structures and meanings, and using many common trance and hypnosis techniques...again.

Guy Finley is another Enlightenment Salesman.
He tells you he can teach you to overcome all suffering, if you buy his book, then CD, then seminars.
Since the goal is IMPOSSIBLE, and you just get a little quick-fix through some trance dissociation, then when you come out of it, you need another book, CD, seminar.
When you are at the seminars, then you get signed up for "donation", and onward it goes.


On page 36, he even tells a long hypno-STORY about an old haunted HOUSE in a town in Texas named Turnaround. Is there even a town in Texas called Turnaround?

But notice, that is the Byron Katie term, Turnaround. Very interesting.
Byron Katie Turnaround House [forum.culteducation.com]

There are many links between these two, in terms of demographic marketing, they have almost an identical demographic. Maybe someone can find something.
Search Google for:

"Guy Finley" "Byron Katie"

Its frankly amazing that Guy Finley has seemed to stay under the radar. They are making a tax-free fortune with the Life Of Learning Foundation church, and no one knows anything about it.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/20/2010 04:24PM by The Anticult.

There is no town in Texas coming up named Turnaround.

What are the chances...Guy Finley telling a psychological hypno-Story about a haunted House in a town called Turnaround, during the "Depression"....when there is no such town.

Byron Katie, who's entire system is based on the Turnaround, and the Turnaround House.

Guy Finley is very clever, notice how he used the word "depression", very subtle.

Wow, Anticult, did someone at LLF spit in your beans? Guy Finley does not conceal anything about his teaching; in fact, it would take you about a year to go through all the free stuff at his website. And the materials for sale are cheaper than other similar materials. I can also understand lumping Guy's teachings together with other new age stuff, since on the surface some the differences are subtle. If you had taken the time to listen to Guy, you would know that he discourages taking his word about anything; you must verify things for yourself (I think this is important when it come to any spiritual teaching, and will keep you from getting snookered by charlatans, or involved in a cult). And isn't it unreasonable to ask that LLF disclose potentially sensitive financial documents to assuage your doubts? If you were about to donate a large sum of money and you had such doubts, Guy would tell you himself not to donate. Think about it: some people who donate might want to remain anonymous (for various reasons).

Keep in mind, too, that any institution must consider practical financial matters, if it is to exist in the world at all. I can fully understand and appreciate your cynicism when it comes these things, but also consider that there may be rare exceptions. Each individual must decide for him or herself if LLF is one of them.

No doubt an 'evangelical atheist' (a phrase coined by Thom Hartman), would vehemently assert that there is no such thing as spirituality, and consider all such organizations useless or, worse yet, cults. I do not know if you feel this way or not, or if you personally belong to another church that disparages all alternate teachings. If the later is true for you, does that 'church' disclose all its financial documents?

So, am I defending LLF? No, I would just like people to research things and decide for themselves. Personally I've, so far, found nothing untoward about Guy Finley or LLF. That does not mean I have my eyes wide shut when it come to his organization. KT

Yeah, every single Guru and their promoters say the same thing.

Guy Finley does load his website up with "free" material. That is the hook that many new agers use, that is how they influence people and suck them into their system for L-I-F-E.
Then they hook them with donations for years, and "retreats" where people hand over large sums of money in person.

To say that Guy Finley does not conceal anything in his "teachings", is completely false. Like many other New Wage Gurus he is using metalevel processes to persuade and manipulate people. That is a fact, and is very obvious.


Of course Guy Finley should be open about where all the money is going. He tries to represent his group as a "charity", but all the money is hidden. One should NEVER EVER donate money to any so-called "charity" without full open financial disclosure audited by independent 3rd parties.
Otherwise, you have no idea of where your money is going. It could be going into overseas bank accounts of the family of the guy running the group.

Guy Finley Inc is not reluctantly engaging in "practical matters" As shown, its a very organized corporation, operating in many areas, and doing a ton of online promotion and viral marketing. Its a business.

Its a red herring to try to asset that a critic is opposed for religious reason, which is obviously not the case. Religion or non-religion has nothing to do with it.

Where is all the money going that Guy Finley Inc is raking in?
No one knows. They could be pulling in millions, and no one knows where any of it is going.
So anyone who cares where their money goes, would not give $1 to that, or buy anything.

And the countless Guy Finley products are not benign or harmless. They are laced with persuasion material, doing many of the same techniques being done by many others.
Its also a endless hodgepodge of material, like Fourth Way, which is just a way to confuse people, which is another technique. Confusion.
Guy Finley is quite slick, but its obvious what he does.

Just another in a long line of Enlightenment Salesmen.
Same story...went "east" in the 70's to attain "enlightenment". Then came back and learned the ropes from Vernon Howard, churning out endless books and materials for sale. Those guys make amazing amounts of money doing that, which they hide using the religious tax loopholes.

Multimillionaire enlightenment salesmen and entrepreneurs. That is what they are and do.

chessgames73:

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