From Freedoms description, the group that she were loyal to failed to reciprocate her loyalty by failing to care for her after she was attacked and needed medical attention.

Instead, from Freedom's description, at the very time she needed to have her loyalty to the group reciprocated, by getting specialized medical care for a time urgent medical, psychological, sexual trauma, the group she trusted, instead, from her descrption pressured her take care of the group's reputation by staying silent, not going to hospital, not reporting the rape, which resulted in witholding treatment and care she needed immediately.

To me, the way to tell if a relationship or group is clean or not clean is whether your loyalty is reciprocated, promptly, with no argument when you need care.

IMO Every account of what has been listed as a cult boils down to unreciprocated loyalty.

Corboy,

Wow, thanks so much for your entry!! You explained things so clearly and with so little judgment. I feel so supported. I never even thought about half the things you said. Like for example, I did need to at least go to the hospital and get treatment for possible STDs. Also about reporting the rapist so he wouldn't do it to others. And thanks for pointing out "Try to instill shame by suggesting, why not go to the police now, ten years later?" When I read this part of alrick888's entry, "What's keeping you from reporting the situation now," I felt bad inside but I didn't know why. But after you pointed it about I feel that this comment is shaming. I don't think alrick888 meant to do this, but it still shamed me. I'm just glad you pointed it out so I don't have to feel shame over this.

And I also never thought about how I was doing unpaid missionary work. I mean I felt responsible for saving all the "sentient beings" in the country I was in and I worked 24/7 to accomplish this. And of course no one ever gave me a penny. I even spent lots of my own money to work for the organization.

Also, I was wondering maybe you could help me. I left the group but I still feel like the group is inside of my mind and I really would like to get the group out of my mind. It's like I'm to the point now where I would not like to participate in FG because, in my opinion, the leader and the teachings hurt other people and I don't want to be a part of hurting other people. Also, I feel like the leader and his teachings hurt me and I don't want to get hurt any more. But my problem now is that I still believe that I will be “eliminated” and go to hell, even though his teachings don't make any rational sense to me and I don't resonate with them at all. Not in my heart, but in my mind, I still believe that the leader has the truth.

Do you have any insights that might help me with this issue.

Thanks, so much again for your entry. I just felt so hopeful after reading it and that there is good in this world and that maybe I can live a life without fear and suffering.

Freedom

This forum is so great. I feel like I’m finally getting to openly discuss, things that have been in my mind for so long. I wanted to reply to your comment below:

The thing is in the current situation if you start saying that FD is a cult that means that you agree with the views of the Chinese government. You then hold the same views. That might be interpreted by outsiders, or ordinary people, as condoning torture, rape and executions of Chinese practitioners. I don't think anyone in their right mind would do that, regardless of the consequences (if any). You have a right to speak out about this of course but then just name the specific group or person involved. If I was wronged by only one Chinese person or group and then started blaming all Chinese persons for it, well would that be considered racism or would it not?

This is a tricky issue. Because in my opinion there are two groups that aren’t doing healthy things. There is FG on one hand that is psychologically abusing people and then the Chinese government who is committing all kinds of other abuses. I can’t speak personally to the abuses of the Chinese government, but I have seen quite a lot of evidence that seems convincing, in my opinion.

For the record, I don’t support any of the abuse. And I believe that one can state their opinion about each account of abuse without supporting either the Chinese government or FG. For example, at the same time I believe that the psychological abuse that Li Hongzhi commits is not good, as well as, I think that the abuses that the Chinese government commits are not good as well.

One other things that just has made me very upset, is the situation surrounding the deaths of Falun Gong practitioners. According to some accounts that I have read on a Falun Gong website, a practitioner who is being beaten can be released from this awful situation if he or she signs a statement claiming that he or she is not a Falun Gong practitioner. Many practitioners do not sign these statements and receive extreme abuse and even are beaten to death. I have also read that if practitioners sign these statements and do not make confessions then they will be eliminated and go to hell, according to Li Hongzhi’s writing. So it seems to me that many practitioners are being abused and killed in part because they are refusing to sign these statements for fear of being eliminated and going to hell.

By no means am I saying this is the practitioners’ fault, but I feel angry at Li Hongzhi because it seems to me that many people are being abused and dying for no reason. This by no means excuses the Chinese government but if one of Li’s three main teachings is Compassion, then why does he not have the mercy to tell these practitioners that it does not matter if they sign these statements or not, so their lives will be spared.

Please if anyone high up in Falun Gong is reading this, please change this. Please spare the precious lives of the Falun Gong practitioners in China.

Well, thanks again for this Forum.

Freedom

I am just a member of the forum--ordinary private citizen. .

Mr Ross is the best person to check with if you want referrals to persons qualified as exit counselors/therapist for trauma.


A note about acupuncture. Some acupuncture protocols act as powerfully as a heavy tranquillizer.

If improperly used, those types of acupuncture protocols can actually hamper recovery from trauma or group betrayal because it just suppresses your emotions, much the same way as over using alcohol or a tranquilizer.

If a person needs psychotherapy or exit counseling, acupuncture can at best supplement this, but can never replace it.

To whom it may concern:

alrick888 has been banned from this message board.

Freedomtochoose:

See [www.culteducation.com]

This is a directory of qualified recovery resources.

This person has some quirky perspectives-for one thing, I totally disagree with his opinions concerning the HIV pandemic.

But a number of the articles have led me to some very high quality books and research leads.

[www.kevinrdshepherd.net]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2009 12:06AM by corboy.

Please ignore item posted above. I goofed and thought this would start a new
thread and I landed it here by mistake.

Take good care

C