Re: James Arthur Ray - 2 die at Arizona retreat's sweat lodge
Posted by:
Eddystone
()
Date: November 25, 2009 11:46PM
Thanks very much for clarifying that! My mistake...
Incidentally I suppose we're still waiting for the toxicology results on the people who sadly died in Ray's jury-rigged "sweat lodge." I haven't seen anything in the news about this recently, though I still haven't seen an official cause of death for any of the victims.
Incidentally I suppose we're still waiting for the toxicology results on the people who sadly died in Ray's jury-rigged "sweat lodge." I haven't seen anything in the news about this recently, though I still haven't seen an official cause of death for any of the victims.
James Arthur Ray - Oprah is personally to blame for him being famous
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: November 26, 2009 10:13AM
Oprah Winfrey is THE person who literally made James Arthur Ray.
Oprah put the blatant scam-artist James Ray on her TV show several times, when she did her shows on The Secret.
Oprah introduced him to her naive audience, and James Ray went to town with it.
Before Oprah, James Ray was a nobody.
After Oprah, he was able to bilk thousands of people.
Oprah did not ask James Arthur Ray ONE single critical question. She didn't check out his background. James Ray was never challenged on a single point or claim he was making.
At the EXACT MOMENT he was on her show, there were many very serious complaints about James Ray on Oprah's own message boards. [forum.culteducation.com]
They just don't care.
Anyone with any life experience could instantly see that James Ray was a ruthless con-artist. It was shown in these threads years ago.
[forum.culteducation.com]
Oprah would have to see that James Ray is a scammer, she is a very experienced person.
But she promoted dozens of these cons and crooks over the years.
Why didn't Oprah allow a professional critical thinker on her TV show promoting James Ray, and others? No critical thinking allowed.
Its just a pump and dump system, pump up The Secret people, sell books, then dump it.
Oprah's own company may have been connected with the publisher of the book The Secret, or had some kind of business deal with them.
If they would have allowed a professional critical thinker like Michael Shermer [www.michaelshermer.com] or others like him on these shows, sales for the books would drop by 50%.
But the Oprah TV show opposes critical and skeptical thinking.
James Randi was literally sandbagged by the Oprah producers years ago.
"how Oprah Winfrey manages to promote woo-woo ideas on her program by careful management of the content"
[www.randi.org]
Its has to be due to the TV advertisers, they don't want their audience asking if the toilet paper really is the softest, or if the cleaner cleans the best.
Just buy and believe.
Same with The Secret. Don't think about what they are really doing and selling, just "believe" and buy.
Then what do they get? They get a crook like James Ray ripping off thousands of people, and leading to the deaths of a number of people.
Supposedly the "sweat-lodge" case is going to move forward next month.
But Oprah is literally personally to blame for making James Arthur Ray famous. She did it.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/26/2009 10:17AM by The Anticult.
Oprah put the blatant scam-artist James Ray on her TV show several times, when she did her shows on The Secret.
Oprah introduced him to her naive audience, and James Ray went to town with it.
Before Oprah, James Ray was a nobody.
After Oprah, he was able to bilk thousands of people.
Oprah did not ask James Arthur Ray ONE single critical question. She didn't check out his background. James Ray was never challenged on a single point or claim he was making.
At the EXACT MOMENT he was on her show, there were many very serious complaints about James Ray on Oprah's own message boards. [forum.culteducation.com]
They just don't care.
Anyone with any life experience could instantly see that James Ray was a ruthless con-artist. It was shown in these threads years ago.
[forum.culteducation.com]
Oprah would have to see that James Ray is a scammer, she is a very experienced person.
But she promoted dozens of these cons and crooks over the years.
Why didn't Oprah allow a professional critical thinker on her TV show promoting James Ray, and others? No critical thinking allowed.
Its just a pump and dump system, pump up The Secret people, sell books, then dump it.
Oprah's own company may have been connected with the publisher of the book The Secret, or had some kind of business deal with them.
If they would have allowed a professional critical thinker like Michael Shermer [www.michaelshermer.com] or others like him on these shows, sales for the books would drop by 50%.
But the Oprah TV show opposes critical and skeptical thinking.
James Randi was literally sandbagged by the Oprah producers years ago.
"how Oprah Winfrey manages to promote woo-woo ideas on her program by careful management of the content"
[www.randi.org]
Its has to be due to the TV advertisers, they don't want their audience asking if the toilet paper really is the softest, or if the cleaner cleans the best.
Just buy and believe.
Same with The Secret. Don't think about what they are really doing and selling, just "believe" and buy.
Then what do they get? They get a crook like James Ray ripping off thousands of people, and leading to the deaths of a number of people.
Supposedly the "sweat-lodge" case is going to move forward next month.
But Oprah is literally personally to blame for making James Arthur Ray famous. She did it.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/26/2009 10:17AM by The Anticult.
Re: James Arthur Ray - Oprah is personally to blame for him being famous
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: November 26, 2009 10:22AM
Re: James Arthur Ray - 2 die at Arizona retreat's sweat lodge
Posted by:
Eddystone
()
Date: November 27, 2009 01:59AM
Thanks for the link.
The discouraging part of James Randi's report is the observation--which I'm afraid is only too true--that when Oprah Winfrey manipulates her show to silence the critics of all this "psychic" mumbo-jumbo, she's only doing it to "showcase what her audience wants."
Sure, we can censure public figures like Oprah for pulling the wool over the eyes of their audience. But when there's an audience out there that WANTS to believe in this drivel, there will always be some charlatan ready to peddle it to them. Wherever there's a market there will always be a supplier, no matter whether the product is good for people or not. That's the same whether it's illegal drugs, "Newage" hogwash or whatever it is the suckers are looking for. Educating some people can be an uphill struggle because some people actually prefer to stay in the dark!
The discouraging part of James Randi's report is the observation--which I'm afraid is only too true--that when Oprah Winfrey manipulates her show to silence the critics of all this "psychic" mumbo-jumbo, she's only doing it to "showcase what her audience wants."
Sure, we can censure public figures like Oprah for pulling the wool over the eyes of their audience. But when there's an audience out there that WANTS to believe in this drivel, there will always be some charlatan ready to peddle it to them. Wherever there's a market there will always be a supplier, no matter whether the product is good for people or not. That's the same whether it's illegal drugs, "Newage" hogwash or whatever it is the suckers are looking for. Educating some people can be an uphill struggle because some people actually prefer to stay in the dark!
Re: James Arthur Ray - 2 die at Arizona retreat's sweat lodge
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: December 01, 2009 11:02PM
"...most of us are also missing a sense of true community, which we instead seek to fill in with affinity."
Food for thought from two other persons websitses.
For the rest of this article, read here:
[www.timboucher.com]
Food for thought from two other persons websitses.
Quote
Via Rev Max, here’s a really interesting website with tips about spotting people with fraudulent claims to shamanism. It’s written from the perspective of Native American shamanism, but I wonder how much of it could we apply in a broader way.
Just to warn you, this list is extraordinarily harsh. But then, that’s part of what I think makes it so very interesting. I’d like to go through a few of the more compelling items here to maybe start a directed discussion on them, but definitely check the whole thing out for yourself and see what you think.
Let’s start with this item:
Leaders who demand exorbitant lecture fees and offer to travel all over to country to spread their spiritual ‘knowledge’ should be avoided at all costs. Native American spiritual practices are specific to geography. Legitimate teachers DO NOT LEAVE THEIR COMMUNITIES. Our spiritual practices vary greatly from region to region. Anyone who is entitled to be a spiritual leader would remain in a living, thriving Native American community. Plastic Shamans who travel all over the world are usually cult leaders. They can only damage their followers spiritually, emotionally and financially.
I know this is probably going to sound drastic to a lot of people, but let’s look at what they are saying. I feel like they’re making a really interesting point about what the role of a shaman or a spiritual teacher is. Namely: they are supposed to have a relationship to their community. The whole reason they exist is to provide their community with spiritual support. The reason they wouldn’t travel is because their community needs them, and because their teachings and visions are particularly tailored and fine-tuned to meet the needs of a specific small group of people. This is very antithetical to how most of have been taught to think about spiritual teachers, but I feel like maybe there’s really something to it. Maybe we’re really missing a key component of the formula.
For the rest of this article, read here:
[www.timboucher.com]
Re: James Arthur Ray - 2 die at Arizona retreat's sweat lodge
Posted by:
buffman
()
Date: December 12, 2009 02:10AM
What was James Ray doing here? Any ideas what the mumbling is? I'm not aware of mumbling as a hypnotic technique. Anticult?
[www.kidsawakening.com]
[www.kidsawakening.com]
Quote
My Experience of James Ray (And What We Can Learn About Parenting)
by Rhonda on December 10, 2009
child meditatingBear with me because I will tie this story back to a parenting lesson at the end of this post…
I took James Ray’s weekend course, Harmonic Wealth a few years ago. A friend of mine had an extra ticket and asked me if I wanted to attend the event in Chicago with her.
I jumped on a plane and the opportunity, being the self-help junkie that I am.
Even though it appeared to me pretty early on that James had a slight arrogance and superiority about him…I looked passed all that because his techniques were powerful…though I recognized some of them from a wide list of other programs I’d taken. Plus, he was charismatic, handsome and seemed to genuinely care about people. AND I was getting a TON out of the weekend.
The course was experiential in nature…so a lot of the breakthroughs I had stayed with me till now. It was a really eye-opening and empowering course. Except for a few strange things that took place…I was glad I went.
The strange things that happened during the weekend went as follows…
At the end of each evening, James would have the entire room (about 1,000 of us) STAND UP holding hands FOR AN HOUR OR MORE after an extremely long day with very little time for lunch. By this time, it had to be like midnight. He would walk around the room, in the middle….just talking and talking and talking about saving the world…but his voice seemed to be getting lower and lower and his words starting blending into each other and I could hardly understand what he was saying…even though he wore a microphone.
My feet were killing me from standing for soooooooo long.
My friend and I finally decided to sneak out when he wasn’t looking. We were afraid he might “call us out” if he saw us “escape”, even though I never saw him do that to anyone. There were others who broke off from the circle and “escaped” too…who also complained about the bazaar situation.
Some people in the circle were older and this was clearly hard on them to stand this long after such a long day. Heck, like I said, it was hard for me and I’m in my forties.
Next day…same thing. Wonderful, amazing day followed by this weird closing at the end, where everyone was instructed to stand in a circle for an hour at midnight or 1 am…(I don’t remember the exact time but I know it was around there. Actually, it might have even been later!). And guess what happened? I believe two people fainted. I know it was at least one-but I believe two. Like I said, it was two years ago…and an ambulance had to be called!
The people who fainted were taken into the area outside the ballroom so quickly that I never even saw it happen. I just remember seeing paramedics outside the door whizzing by and helping someone right outside the door.
We were quickly assured by James that everything was okay…and directed to focus on him and what he was mumbling. It was clear that NOTHING was going to take him away from talking to us while we were holding hands…STANDING…for an hour while he kept sharing the importance of his mission…OUR mission…to make a difference and change the planet….and eventually his words turned into more of a mumbling and I couldn’t understand a word of what he was saying!
I remember wondering if he was drinking too much chlorophyll and if that could be affecting his brain at this point which caused this ranting and mumbling. That’s what he drank all day long while on stage.
Again, my friend and I (and others) “escaped”. And when we made our “run for it” through the double doors and back to our hotel so we could get some rest, others in the group made negative comments about us leaving. I don’t remember the exact comments they made, but it was clear that some of the people that stayed thought we were bailing out on humanity by breaking off from the circle.
I’m no psychologist, but I bet this is part of the psychology of what happened in the “sweat lodge” incident. Not wanting to be singled out by the group or group leader as someone who bails. Not wanting to be in the spotlight in a negative light. Not wanting to be embarrassed or humiliated.
And so I came home with my board that I karate chopped in half during one of the exercises (Ray’s equivalent of Tony Robbin’s walking on fire) which proudly symbolized my breakthrough of busting through my money barriers…and I felt wonderful and empowered…and yes…in the back of my mind…a little disturbed by the holding hands/standing for an hour/mumbling James/people fainting incident. However, being the generous person I am…tried to overlook the bad and focus on the positive and give him the benefit of the doubt.
So here’s where I tie this whole thing back into parenting. I knew what “didn’t feel right to me”. And it didn’t feel right that James Ray would have all these people of all different ages and degrees of strength and health stand for this long.
The vibes I felt was that something wasn’t right here. It didn’t jive with me and I needed to take care of myself…and so I left. Twice.
This is such an important lesson to teach our kids. We need to teach our kids to honor their vibes. We need to let our children know it’s okay to listen to the voice inside of them…to follow their heart.
Were the people in the sweat lodge following their hearts or were they cast under a spell…giving all their power away to someone else?
Trust your instincts, even if the person is a “Guru”. What is a guru anyway? The only real guru we should be following is the one within ourselves. Yes, we can learn from others…but learning is different than giving your power away.
Here’s some of the words and questions you can use when talking to your kids:
Follow your gut
What do you think?
How do you feel about that?
I’ll tell you what I think – but first tell me what you think…
Follow your heart
Follow your instincts or intuition
These are all questions and phrases we can say to our kids to help them exercise that all-important muscle of intuition.
Intuition is the sixth sense and we are in the age of the Sixth Sense, folks. Let’s encourage intuition and trusting your vibes in our kids and teenagers so they can have the personal strength to break away from the group when things just don’t feel right.
Re: James Arthur Ray - mumbling, and indirect unconscious Trance
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: December 12, 2009 08:54AM
You better believe that mumbling is a hypnotic technique, its one of the main ones in current advanced hypnosis and Trance work.
Its a perversion of advanced Ericksonian hypnosis.
What James Ray is doing, is at the end of a very long day, he pushes people into exhaustion, where their defenses are the lowest.
He then slowly paces and leads them into "unconscious" work, where he deliberately goes sub-vocal, and mixes in Suggestions with nonsense, confusion, and precise instruction.
James Ray is pushing people into Trance states, and then controlling those states of mind.
James Ray then inserts his Suggestions, deliberately done in a vague, confusing, and sub-vocal mumbling manner, to try and communicate directly with the unconscious.
He'd never get away with this with someone in the room who knew what he was doing. That is why James Ray (and others) kick out people from his seminars who stand up to him.
He also frames it probably with the hand-holding, as another deep unconsious bonding experience with people, and the "collective unconscious".
This is mental and emotional abuse of the highest order.
If you EVER notice anyone doing ANY of this stuff, and you have not studied this material for 10 years and know exactly what he/she is doing, get the hell out of that room immediately.
You have no idea of what they are trying to do to you.
This is James Ray doing an extreme perversion of Ericksonian hypnotherapy, and Deep Trance states.
Would you let an amateur unlicensed fake doctor open up your skull to do exploratory brain surgery?
Its a perversion of advanced Ericksonian hypnosis.
What James Ray is doing, is at the end of a very long day, he pushes people into exhaustion, where their defenses are the lowest.
He then slowly paces and leads them into "unconscious" work, where he deliberately goes sub-vocal, and mixes in Suggestions with nonsense, confusion, and precise instruction.
James Ray is pushing people into Trance states, and then controlling those states of mind.
James Ray then inserts his Suggestions, deliberately done in a vague, confusing, and sub-vocal mumbling manner, to try and communicate directly with the unconscious.
He'd never get away with this with someone in the room who knew what he was doing. That is why James Ray (and others) kick out people from his seminars who stand up to him.
He also frames it probably with the hand-holding, as another deep unconsious bonding experience with people, and the "collective unconscious".
This is mental and emotional abuse of the highest order.
If you EVER notice anyone doing ANY of this stuff, and you have not studied this material for 10 years and know exactly what he/she is doing, get the hell out of that room immediately.
You have no idea of what they are trying to do to you.
This is James Ray doing an extreme perversion of Ericksonian hypnotherapy, and Deep Trance states.
Would you let an amateur unlicensed fake doctor open up your skull to do exploratory brain surgery?
Re: James Arthur Ray - 2 die at Arizona retreat's sweat lodge
Posted by:
Sparky
()
Date: December 12, 2009 10:07AM
The Anticult, thank you for all you do here. I appreciate the hypnotic expertise you bring.
I have attended a Hypnotist act at a local comedy club. The Hypnotist approached me after a break he took and asked if I would consider being hypnotised (I am an extrovert and was laughing etc. his show, and therefore very attractive to a hypnotic show). I laughed and told him I did not believe in hypnotism and thought it was a self-induced state and wouldn't be a good candidate.. He smiled, agreed, and moved on to easier 'marks'.
I would assume that this form of hypnotism that you describe, The Anticult, is attacking folks who are completely broken down both mentally and physically thereby making many people vulnerable.
Is there any technique that a 'mark' can use to, well, NOT be a 'mark' in these hypnotic attacks? Personally, I would leave and refuse to cooperate with such a terrible mind-numbing experience.
Can you offer advice to people who may be thinking of attending one of these horror shows on how to protect themselves?
I have attended a Hypnotist act at a local comedy club. The Hypnotist approached me after a break he took and asked if I would consider being hypnotised (I am an extrovert and was laughing etc. his show, and therefore very attractive to a hypnotic show). I laughed and told him I did not believe in hypnotism and thought it was a self-induced state and wouldn't be a good candidate.. He smiled, agreed, and moved on to easier 'marks'.
I would assume that this form of hypnotism that you describe, The Anticult, is attacking folks who are completely broken down both mentally and physically thereby making many people vulnerable.
Is there any technique that a 'mark' can use to, well, NOT be a 'mark' in these hypnotic attacks? Personally, I would leave and refuse to cooperate with such a terrible mind-numbing experience.
Can you offer advice to people who may be thinking of attending one of these horror shows on how to protect themselves?
Re: James Arthur Ray - advanced hypnosis
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: December 12, 2009 01:27PM
The local stage hypnotist is not connected with the deeper forms of advanced hypnosis. Much of stage "hypnotism" is simply direct suggestion, they find people who want to act up for laughs for their friends. Its a comedy show.
But at the end of an intense LGAT seminar, when the hypnotist like James Ray starts mumbling, and raving, that is something else altogether.
Its a technique.
Some of it is smoke and mirrors to create confusion, which is a technique.
But what that person described is PRECISE advanced hypnotic technique.
All "hypnotism" is in that area, is powerful suggestions, and Deep Trance states, which humans have accessed since tribal times.
James Ray knows that of course, and uses that as well.
How to deal with it?
If a person has had less than 10 years of experience in professional advanced hypnotherapy and persuasion, and if you cannot understand EVERYTHING that is being done...GET OUT FAST.
Get the hell out of there. Or you might end up in an ambulance, or worse, at the next seminar, and you won't know why.
For someone who is highly trained, they might go sit and the back of the room and take notes on the processes, or watch on video, or fake they are playing along, when in fact they are observing. But that can be dangerous too, you can slip into it.
But sadly, the average person either knows nothing of what is going on, or is cocky and thinks they are smarter than some crook like James Ray, and can resist. They are wrong.
You don't know what the guy is doing, especially if you are exhausted.
You can't resist when you don't know what you are resisting.
They get trained for years on how to deal with resistance, and they do it with the Yes set, and permissive suggestions. Byron Katie is the master at that.
James Ray would generally be anchoring James Ray deep into your psyche in those times, for use later at future seminars.
The average person has to GET OUT and stay out.
Only a very highly trained person can stay in there, and even then its a risk, and its terribly hard work, to analyze everything that is going on.
And a skilled persuader, will see you working to analyze the methods, and turn that against you, to try and exhaust you.
Or just kick you out of the seminar, as he knows you know what he is doing.
So for the average person, just get the hell out of there.
Then spend a few hundred hours very carefully studying all of the methods and techniques they use, much of which is now available in the internet for free and linked in this thread.
Of course, James Ray thought of that. That is why he Targets a demographic from The Secret, people who believe they can have everything without any effort.
James Ray likes people who think like that, that is an easy customer to sell.
James Ray is a professional salesman, and the first thing they learn is to find easy customers, and avoid tough customers.
But at the end of an intense LGAT seminar, when the hypnotist like James Ray starts mumbling, and raving, that is something else altogether.
Its a technique.
Some of it is smoke and mirrors to create confusion, which is a technique.
But what that person described is PRECISE advanced hypnotic technique.
All "hypnotism" is in that area, is powerful suggestions, and Deep Trance states, which humans have accessed since tribal times.
James Ray knows that of course, and uses that as well.
How to deal with it?
If a person has had less than 10 years of experience in professional advanced hypnotherapy and persuasion, and if you cannot understand EVERYTHING that is being done...GET OUT FAST.
Get the hell out of there. Or you might end up in an ambulance, or worse, at the next seminar, and you won't know why.
For someone who is highly trained, they might go sit and the back of the room and take notes on the processes, or watch on video, or fake they are playing along, when in fact they are observing. But that can be dangerous too, you can slip into it.
But sadly, the average person either knows nothing of what is going on, or is cocky and thinks they are smarter than some crook like James Ray, and can resist. They are wrong.
You don't know what the guy is doing, especially if you are exhausted.
You can't resist when you don't know what you are resisting.
They get trained for years on how to deal with resistance, and they do it with the Yes set, and permissive suggestions. Byron Katie is the master at that.
James Ray would generally be anchoring James Ray deep into your psyche in those times, for use later at future seminars.
The average person has to GET OUT and stay out.
Only a very highly trained person can stay in there, and even then its a risk, and its terribly hard work, to analyze everything that is going on.
And a skilled persuader, will see you working to analyze the methods, and turn that against you, to try and exhaust you.
Or just kick you out of the seminar, as he knows you know what he is doing.
So for the average person, just get the hell out of there.
Then spend a few hundred hours very carefully studying all of the methods and techniques they use, much of which is now available in the internet for free and linked in this thread.
Of course, James Ray thought of that. That is why he Targets a demographic from The Secret, people who believe they can have everything without any effort.
James Ray likes people who think like that, that is an easy customer to sell.
James Ray is a professional salesman, and the first thing they learn is to find easy customers, and avoid tough customers.
Re: James Arthur Ray - mumbling, and indirect unconscious Trance
Posted by:
buffman
()
Date: December 12, 2009 01:33PM
Thanks, Anticult. I appreciate your expertise here. Techniques of manipulative hypnosis have gotten stranger than I imagined possible. To me the biggest warning sign of coercive persuasion is in the long hours and total overload, but that's the level of things that I can see most clearly I suppose.
Also, I just watched the recent Nightline on James Ray, available here:
[abcnews.go.com]
James Ray told staffers re: Colleen Conaway "She's fine, we've found her, she decided not to return to the event" after she suicided and they found that she was in the morgue, and encouraged them to repeat this lie.
Also, I just watched the recent Nightline on James Ray, available here:
[abcnews.go.com]
James Ray told staffers re: Colleen Conaway "She's fine, we've found her, she decided not to return to the event" after she suicided and they found that she was in the morgue, and encouraged them to repeat this lie.
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