Quote
Penelope
The concept of mind over matter in New Age circles isn't as extremist as you might think. Abraham-Hicks teach that you can do anything, I mean ANYTHING, if you're in emotional vibration with what you want.

Yes, many new agers sell the New Thought idea of supreme mind/matter.
The difference is that for most of them, they keep it to TALK in their books, and don't really try it out, as they don't REALLY believe it. If they really believed it to the point of delusion, they would try it out.

For example, a sociopathic New Thought Guru would encourage his vulnerable follower to jump off a ledge in a mall as a "test of faith" that they could levitate and FLY like in Carlos Castaneda's books.

Or would have them break the bones in their hands and put arrows to their necks, risking death.
Or the Guru would make his followers undergo a supreme TEST try to overcome death and "cross-over" by roasting themselves to death in a sweatbox.

But notice the Guru does not jump off a ledge, does not break his hand, and does not dehydrate and overheat himself causing permanent organ damage.
The Guru stays at the luxury air-conditioned hotel, drinks plenty of fluids, eats meals and sleeps properly, and sits by the door of the deathbox, as he knows its bullshit, and is not going to risk his neck. The Guru gets-off on watching others risk theirs.

So many Guru's preach that junk, but not very many will ACTUALLY risk their followers lives, and risk putting the Guru in jail.
But the really dangerous Gurus will.
For example in Jonestown, and other suicide cults, they are always told they were going to "heaven" and crossing into others dimensions of reality, and not dying.

Carlos Castaneda is also listed as running a sect/cult with suicidal tendencies, as they were told they were not dying, but crossing over to other dimensions.
Search for:
"Carlos Castaneda" suicide

As was said in the James Ray case, [forum.culteducation.com]
QUOTE:
"A woman identified as Barb told the callers that a channeler at the retreat last Friday said the deceased had an out-of-body experience during the sweat lodge ceremony and "were having so much fun that they chose not to come back."

James Ray copied and modeled Carlos Castaneda in great and dangerous detail.
There are articles on the Rick Ross site about Carlos Castaneda, search for:

site:www.culteducation.com "Carlos Castaneda"

Carlos Castaneda is the dangerous fake-shamanic rabbit hole James Ray is/was leading his followers down.

On the New Age Frauds and Plastic Shamans forum, a correspondant named 'critter'
nailed it when discussing Castaneda by saying 'I have met enough 'Castaneda' followers and they all have this preconceived notion of what/how a teacher is supposed to be..' read the rest, here.

[www.newagefraud.org]

What the discussants on NAFPS refer to as 'preconcieved notion', other persons might
possibly look for evidence of what hypnosis technicians call 'pre-framing.'

And, the correspondant prior to critter made this most interesting suggestion: If you read the Castaneda books, where young Carlos is, so his tales go, being harshly treated by Don Juan Matus, this could lead a reader of Castaneda trash to expect a teacher to be 'a bit abusive.'

Think about it, friends. One can use Castaneda literature as a recruitment and also as a sorting device.

1) The books would repel anyone who detects that they are fiction, or who already knows that Castaneda was a fraud and already knows that genuine tribal teachers never behave that way. An aspiring hustler is GLAD if the Castaneda books repulse this
group of readers---for the huster does not want persons like this in his or her audience. So, potential critical minded trouble makers who see the books are fantasy and insult
the culture of tribal peoples, or who simply find the books childish stay away from the hustler, making his or her job easier.

2) Readers who accept the Castaneda story line as true but who are repulsed by Don Juan's cruel behavior and who dont like the material for that reason and therefere refuse further involvement with any hustler (or potential date) who likes Castaneda books and recommends them--good. The huster does not want to be burdened by people who are kind enough to be revolted by cruelty.

Who is left? Persons who accept the Casteneda fantasy material as true, and who ignore its cruelty because the stuff makes them feel excited and special and they dont know to fact check and cut off any of their friends who express skepticism or disgust
in relation to Casteneda.

This, friends, is what Churchill called the soft white underbelly. This is the niche
market of people that all hustlers want.

And all that is needed is to recommend Castanedas books and see who wolfs them down and shows up for your next event, eyes glowing with excitement.

(Corboy warning--any person who abuses this information to set themselves up as a charlatan and fleece others for thier own ego driven gratification--you will, I promise
get karmic payback. Castaneda died like a poisoned rat in a hole. He was a millionaire and utterly miserable. He died horribly from liver cancer and had only his sadistic imagination for company.)

An introductory essay on Castanedas philosophy of Erasing Personal History

[sustainedaction.org]

This site is the go to place for anyone trying to make sense of the Castaneda charade.

[sustainedaction.org]

The Must-Read book for understanding Castanedas inner circle is the harrowing memoir by Amy Wallace Sorcerers Apprentice:My Life With Carlos Castaneda

Now, what is of great interest is visiting a long term website run by former
followers of Castaneda and reading material in 'Ellis Place' the portion of the forum
in which Amy Wallaces book was discussed. (She and other women in the circle were given other names. Her 'slave name' was 'Ellis'. Later, it was changed to Amy Wallaces
Place.

The dreadful thing is that there are legions of people out there who never met Castaneda but fully believe his material and who argue loops around anyone who disagrees. Trying to deal with them is like trying to grab a blob of mercury.

[sustainedreaction.yuku.com]

and there are reports that Castaneda visited Esalen. That was a place where a lot of folks could share ideas, perhaps learn each others 'tech'.

This refers to a film.

[sustainedreaction.yuku.com]

and--where someone gives different versions

[sustainedreaction.yuku.com]

For the AntiCult and everyone here:

Considering James Arthur Ray's trial will be held in the general Sedona area, which is apparently a central site for beliefs along the lines of The Secret, (and similar), what questions would you want to see prosecutors pose to potential jurors in the voir dire (questioning) process?

And, if the prosecutors are reading this, who would you want them to consult with in creating the list of questions posed to potential jurors to red flag those with bias to Ray, The Secret, LOA, cult mindset, abusive authority figures, etc?

I wonder if Robert Cialdini would consult or appear as an expert witness? Whether the criminal case or in any of the civil cases to follow.

If Ray is smart, he will spend a lot on a top jury consultant to try to shape the jury as best he can.

Yavapai County is, unfortunately, limited by a government budget.

There is long term, excellent international publicity to be gained for one or more cult-buster experts to serve as expert witness(es), even without pay, as the headlines made by the information he or she will disclose to the press on the whole covert persuasion industry can make that person a household name and provide them with media and publicity for years to come only dreamed about by most.

Lastly, in some cases, the court will accept amicus briefs - also called Friend of the Court briefs, on selected key issues. I'd love to see amicus briefs on proper Native American practices as well as briefs from persuasion and cult experts. Groups must have standing to file amicus briefs, and they must ask the court for permission to file.

@ JimmyProfit
Excellent points, that should be cross-linked all over the place, like on the Droid, and others covering this.

One can't imagine how Robert Cialdini can avoid being involved in this.
After all, James Ray recommends his book Influence.
And its a proven FACT that James Ray uses (abuses) the precise social covert Influence techniques explained in the Robert Cialdini book called Influence.
James Arthur Ray - SOCIAL PROOF [forum.culteducation.com]

This case is going to see if an LGAT seminar leader or New Age Guru can get away with repeatedly injuring and having his customers/followers die at his seminars.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/19/2010 02:54AM by The Anticult.

Looks like CNN changed its headline, to reflect the facts. Imagine that.

[twitter.com]
NancyOgilvie: MISLEADING CNN HEADLINE CHANGED: "Medical examiner rules deaths accidental as sweat lodge guru faces charges" power to the ppl! #jamesray

@Jimmy Profit,
The list of witnesses for the prosecution includes a woman called Kate Lady Hawk, who I assume is a Native American. Investigators also contacted Native Americans checking reports that JAR had tried to find a Native American to vouch for his sweat lodge credentials.
[tommcfeeley.com]

I think people who've read Deepak Chopra and Wayne Dyer over the years have been put in a frame of mind where if someone DOES tell them to put it to the test, they'd be much more likely to go along with it and think it's possible. These two authors are extremely popular and mainstream. I have no doubt the average James Ray fan has read Chopra, Abraham-Hicks and/or Dyer, if not own many of their books. Dyer has had PBS specials where he talks about miracles and magic and the power of "intention" over matter. And then you have the Hick's, who's followers would have NO problem with the idea that the sweat lodge participants who died 'where having so much fun they chose not to come back'. James Ray knows he's just building on these popular ideas. People were shocked by the channeler's message to the survivors but I wasn't at all. It sounded exactly like what I'd expect from any of the pop mystics whose books are flying of the shelves these days.

Quote
The Anticult

Quote
Penelope
The concept of mind over matter in New Age circles isn't as extremist as you might think. Abraham-Hicks teach that you can do anything, I mean ANYTHING, if you're in emotional vibration with what you want.

Yes, many new agers sell the New Thought idea of supreme mind/matter.
The difference is that for most of them, they keep it to TALK in their books, and don't really try it out, as they don't REALLY believe it. If they really believed it to the point of delusion, they would try it out.

For example, a sociopathic New Thought Guru would encourage his vulnerable follower to jump off a ledge in a mall as a "test of faith" that they could levitate and FLY like in Carlos Castaneda's books.

Or would have them break the bones in their hands and put arrows to their necks, risking death.
Or the Guru would make his followers undergo a supreme TEST try to overcome death and "cross-over" by roasting themselves to death in a sweatbox.

But notice the Guru does not jump off a ledge, does not break his hand, and does not dehydrate and overheat himself causing permanent organ damage.
The Guru stays at the luxury air-conditioned hotel, drinks plenty of fluids, eats meals and sleeps properly, and sits by the door of the deathbox, as he knows its bullshit, and is not going to risk his neck. The Guru gets-off on watching others risk theirs.

So many Guru's preach that junk, but not very many will ACTUALLY risk their followers lives, and risk putting the Guru in jail.
But the really dangerous Gurus will.
For example in Jonestown, and other suicide cults, they are always told they were going to "heaven" and crossing into others dimensions of reality, and not dying.

Carlos Castaneda is also listed as running a sect/cult with suicidal tendencies, as they were told they were not dying, but crossing over to other dimensions.
Search for:
"Carlos Castaneda" suicide

As was said in the James Ray case, [forum.culteducation.com]
QUOTE:
"A woman identified as Barb told the callers that a channeler at the retreat last Friday said the deceased had an out-of-body experience during the sweat lodge ceremony and "were having so much fun that they chose not to come back."

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/19/2010 03:55AM by Penelope.

Rumorrat has rumours of a class action suit by those wanting refunds on prepaid events:

[rumorrat.com]

What if Colleen Conaway was dared and intensely manipulated and brow-beaten by a sadistic Guru to jump as a test of faith?

James Ray ordered all his seminar attendees to read all of the Carlos Castaneda books, and said they MUST read them IN ORDER, and copied many aspects of Castaneda's methods [forum.culteducation.com]
One of the primary belief systems in Castaneda, is that if you "believe" hard enough you can "fly", that is "levitate".

What if a sociopathic New Thought Guru manipulated his vulnerable follower to jump off a ledge in a mall as a "test of faith" that they could levitate and FLY like in Carlos Castaneda's books?

[books.google.com]
"Did I really fly, don Juan? ... did my body fly? Did I take off like a bird?
...As you take more of it, you will learn how to fly perfectly."









_____________quote_____________
[www.abc15.com] Suicide at James Ray event raises new questions

PHOENIX -- Family members of some sweat lodge victims say they would have thought twice about going to James Ray's Sedona retreat if they had known about a suicide at another of the spiritual guru's events.

Colleen Conaway jumped to her death from a San Diego shopping mall balcony last July during one of Ray's seminars.

Police quickly determined it was a suicide, but now her family wants authorities to reopen the investigation, in light of the sweat lodge deaths and reports of other injuries during a 2005 Ray sweat lodge ceremony.

Conaway's sister, Lynn Graham, calls what happened afterward a cover-up.

"We have a lot of things that just don't seem to add up," said Graham.

She said her sister had plans to open a business, was in a good place in life and told her over the phone she couldn't wait to come home and tell her family about her experience in San Diego. Graham said she even had a lunch packed for her return home days later.

She said she has been in touch with Tom McFeeley, Kirby Brown's cousin. Brown died of heat stroke in the sweat lodge three months after the suicide in San Diego.

McFeeley said the way Ray and his team handled the suicide is telling.

"They really developed a protocol for death," said McFeeley. "They spoke to their attorneys first. They didn't acknowledge her identity. They didn't connect the dots when she didn't show up at the bus. They really did everything they could to make sure the show went on, and to hide it from the other participants."

James Shore, who also died in the Sedona sweat lodge, was one of the participants at the San Diego seminar.

"Would he have gone to Sedona if he knew Colleen Conaway committed suicide at the James Ray event?" said McFeeley. "We'll never know the answer to that, and that's an additional tragedy here."

While the sweat lodge victims' families are just beginning their journey for closure through the justice system, Conaway's family is left to wonder what compelled her to end her life.

"There is definitely questionable behavior associated with him and his organization, and I definitely fear for the safety of anyone that attends his seminars," said Graham.

....
____________________________________