There is a real difference here between so-called "cults" in a classic sense, and LGAT seminar systems like James Ray was running.
There are many different levels in these groups.
No question, many "religious" based groups have hard-core true believers who can believe anything, and will do basically anything in certain cases.

But corporate commerical LGAT seminar groups, are really a very different animal.
That is what James Ray was running.
The people who are the professional salespeople, like James Ray and his senior people, know EXACTLY what they are doing to people.
They are technocrats.
All the new age fuzzy stuff is just sales and distortion.
They call it Belief Systems...BS...Bullshit.
That is a fact, that is how they are trained, and how they think. These people don't believe their own bullshit they sell most of the time, they consider themselves above that.

Proof of that in the case of James Ray Inc were those posters in their sales offices, which were precise instructions on how to exploit vulnerabilities in people to make money.
There are PRECISE MANUALS out there, with every detail of exactly how to use these sales and persuasion techniques on people. Its not New Agey nonsense, that is the smokescreen. Many people have a bookshelf full of these manuals and binders full of precise info on how to do it.
People become objects to them, sales targets.

Many people who were members of a "cult" don't know how those who are running the show think. And basically everyone involved in an LGAT don't realize how the salespeople operate. These are the people who are on the phone all day selling and upselling more seminars.
Its a very cynical business, like telemarketing.
To see what its really like, one has to go into the field for a while, and see how it operates.

That is where James Ray learned how to do it, systematically and technically.
So the people who are selling these seminars fulltime for years at a time, they don't really believe the salespitch. They pitch the salespitch with their precise techniques of covert persuasion and manipulation.
Again, these are the people at the top, in the inner circle, the people making the money.

One cannot argue that Megan-Josh are true believers, in that they believe the salespitch. One can see from their selective memories, and their inability to remember anything, and trying to spin things for James Ray.
They may get away with trying to play dumb that they didn't know anything, but its not believable in the least.

The people who work for free at the LGAT seminars, many of them do believe the "content" of the seminars.
But not the fulltime paid staffers and salespeople who make the big sales, they think about it very differently.


As far as the sweat-lodge, there is no way that James Ray believed he was leading people into deep 'spiritual' near-death experiences, that is not believable.
He was trying to do many things to people at once, and it mainly seems like he was trying to manufacture extreme traumatic emotional experiences for the GROUP, and insert himself as a Godlike being into peoples psyches, in a way that would last for many years, and even for LIFE.
Its a form of Installing The Guru inside the mind, which many sects do in their own way.
If they do it in an extreme enough way, they believe the installation can last for many years, even for life. Installing the Guru for 10 years into people's psyche is not that hard to do in an extreme LGAT seminar.

So there is a massive difference between the followers and those being exploited in these groups, and those who are doing the exploiting. Some of the most senior inner circle can make a lot of money on commission, but not too much. If you get too big, too good, the Guru will kick you to the curb.

Then they go and start their own operation.
Expect Megan and Josh, once this is all over, to start up their own operation too. As Josh even said, he was running websites marketing James Ray material, and his sites were making more money than James Ray sites. (so he says). But regardless, Josh and Megan were in it for the money right from the beginning.
Once you have met many of the pro LGAT salespeople, they are not that hard to spot.
A hint is when every photo of them is a manic smile with their eyes bugging out, and they are running all of the online operations of the company, and also Directing the seminar operations.
Another good hint is when every word that comes out of their mouth is sales bullshit.

Megan and Josh knew exactly what was going on, which is why their memories conveniently went almost totally blank.
They are not victims anymore, not for a long time. They may walk away from this entire nightmare in one piece, and in short order start up their own little LGAT seminar company.

'They are not victims anymore, not for a long time.'

I think that this is a very important point.
In the early years of cult indoctrination it is possible to operate a kind of double-think, to hold two opposing belief systems at the same time. So it is entirely possible for indoctrinees to believe that Death Ray is god's gift to mankind and to also tolerate the sales manipulation that is necessary to keep the money flowing in.

But as time goes on and the worker-indoctrinees see more of what goes on behind closed doors, the gap between these two opposing beliefs becomes more and more apparent to even the least intellectual of them and they then have to make a choice to either walk away or throw in their lot completely with the deception.

This is a sort of moral dilemma and it can only be solved with a conscious choice. The result of the choice indicates whether or not the person has any kind of functioning moral compass.

In belief systems of value, the aquiring of a solid moral foundation is a prerequisite, ie the Ten Commandments of Christian belief, other systems have their own version of do's and don'ts.
Only when the moral foundation is in place to such a degree that it is part of the persons unconscious functioning is it possible to begin consciously examining those beliefs for their validity.
A belief system of value encourages each person to constantly re-examine and re-evaluate those beliefs according to changing circumstances and to decide for themselves whether the belief is valid in a particular situation. That is a functioning moral compass.
The person takes full responsibility for their choices, knowing that we can never see the full picture of any circumstance.
This isn't a 'blame the victim' stance. This is about making conscious decisions and requires a degree of self-honesty and the ability to look compassionately on our own inevitable mistakes, because we are always flying at least partially blind (never being able to see the full picture)

Death Ray's workers, depending on their degree of closeness to the deception, will all have made a conscious choice to 'go along to get along.' That is their responsibility alone and there aren't any excuses that hold up.

In other, more extreme, situations the only acceptable excuse for 'going along to get along' is the real and imminent danger of being killed for refusal, but that doesn't apply here.

Boston Herald article cites now sealed court documents regarding financial position of James Ray, he's $4+ million in debt and has $14,000 in a checking account.

He lists liabilities of $8+ million, most of which are unexplained---some off-shore exploration might provide some explanatory guidance.

They want a reduced bail as he isn't a threat to public safety----the constant casualties and trail of death notwithstanding!

JAR broke



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/19/2010 10:38PM by Stoic.

There you have it, as predicted the scammer James Ray has stashed his cash.
Could be the brother and family members are sitting on a chunk of it, as well as all sorts of offshore shell-companies like Werner Erhard used.

They called the company James Ray International, "international" as in making and moving money out of the country.
Call in the IRS.

Even the true believer James Ray followers have to now see what an outrageous scammer he is.
But the longterm JRI employees won't be surprised, as all these types of LGAT "wealth seminars" teach on the first day to COVER YOUR ASS-ETS, and hide your money, and to not keep your money in your name. Move it offshore, hide it in trusts, put it in the name of your cat, bury it in the backyard if you have to...that is what they teach.

The incredible lies told by James Rays team are exposed in the article, when they say its the "media" who said James Ray was wealthy, when in fact it was James Ray himself bragging.
The longterm senior James Ray employees know all this, in great detail. They know its a scam and a huge confidence trick, but they are in it for the money as well.

So now will be the moment of truth to see if the James Ray hide your assets scams work, when the court looks at the books.
Notice how the Beverly Hills mansion is not listed as an asset, could be its in the companies name or something?
Next step is to file bankruptcy, so all the lawsuits get wiped out.

Its all tricks and scams, from top to bottom, and guess who think he will be laughing all the way to the offshore banks.
He's a crook.



________QUOTE___________________
[www.bostonherald.com]
"Ray himself has touted his wealth and success in numerous media interviews and on his Web site, including an estimated $10 million in revenue in 2009 and a seven-figure advance for his book, "Harmonic Wealth" that hit the New York Times [NYT] Best Sellers List in May 2008.
He told "Fortune Magazine" for an April 2008 article that his financial goal was $21 million a year and that he was sure there were limits, but "I am not aware of them."
______________________________

Before anyone buys into the predicted [forum.culteducation.com] James Ray propaganda that he is broke, its important to research these LGAT seminar companies and how they operate.
For those who have taken many of the same seminars taken by James Ray when he was learning how to run his own seminars, literally on the first day on the first page of the seminar, they always teach you to never keep any serious money in your company, or in your own name.
That is a fact, that is exactly what they teach, as their own type of guerilla business tactics. [forum.culteducation.com]

They teach specific strategies that as soon as you make any money, that money needs to be moved out of the company instantly, in one way or another. You don't keep equity in your houses, or in the businesses. They lease houses and vacation houses.
And if anything, you run all your businesses on the edge, or deep in the hole, just in case the house of cards collapses.
OPM, Other Peoples Money. What they also do is go into parnerships with many people, and run those into the toilet as well.
All of their business are just mechanisms for them to extract money.

As a matter of fact, what has happened with James Ray is now going to be a teaching story for other LGAT seminar leaders. That is their #1 fear, that they will get sued.
The solution for them is not insurance, but to keep the businesses in the red.

If the shit really hits the fan, they just go bankrupt and they can walk away from everything, and start over again. Meanwhile, the money they did make is controlled by family members, or stashed.

Of course there are many (most?) wannabe LGAT gurus who are broke, and just lie saying how rich they are, and never get a chance to stash money away. (Joe Vitale is likely in that category)

But James Ray is not one of those people, thanks to Oprah. Before Oprah, James Ray was nickle and dime, but the promotion of James Ray by Oprah many times, and getting the Oprah endorsement allowed James Ray to make millions.
James Ray is not stupid, he is not going to keep his money where the "vultures" can get at it. That is literally the first thing these guys do when they make money, that is their mentality, as that is how they think.

None of this is a surprise, its by the book. Technically, if they did it properly, then James Ray could be broke on paper, as that is the plan. So we'll see what happens with the bail.
Next step is to try to reduce the charges or get a mistrial, and then go bankrupt to wipe away the lawsuits. Once that is done, he'll start up again in one way or another, or in another location.

Unless of course he has tried to screw the IRS, which is a fatal mistake many of the greedy LGAT Gurus make.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2010 04:59AM by The Anticult.

Its more than a bit surprising so many are believing the James Ray propaganda.
Even very small time players know how to play this game. There are countless small time players who make a few hundred grand in a year, much of it in cash, and then are able to squirl it away.
But these guys are professionals, they hire pros to take care of moving that stuff around.

As far as some seminars not being full, that doesn't matter. For example, to rent a few lights and some staging is not expensive, its in the hundreds of dollars, one-ticket. They don't pay staff, and even CHARGE staff to work at the seminar.
They are often are able to get the hotel ballroom at cost, if they are able to sell enough hotel rooms, in a contra-deal with the hotel. The expenses are very low, the profits very high. That is why every serious scammer goes into the LGAT seminar business.

The key is to get famous, like getting on the Oprah TV show, then you really start to make out like a bandit.

But already there are some interesting hints.

_______________________
[www.washingtonpost.com]
QUOTE: "Ray's attorneys said his financial stability has been shaken by withdrawals from bank accounts in the last several months to pay creditors and legal fees, including a significant retainer deposited in a trust account at the California-based law firm representing him."
_______________________

That is interesting, that his remaining bank accounts have been drained in the last few months to "pay creditors". One has to wonder who those "creditors" are? It will not be a surprise to see they are companies controlled by James Ray's family or associates or entities.
James Ray has done this by the book. Keep some cash on hand, but when there is trouble, transfer it to the lawyers.
Have to see how it all plays out.

Someone made a sarcastic post about how none of James Ray's colleagues and buddies like Jack Canfield have offered to pay his bail, or help with it.
James Ray still advertises their support of him all over his website, especially Oprah.

James Arthur Ray | The Oprah Winfrey Show | Free Resources | Oprah
James Ray, Rhonda Byrne, Jack Canfield, Michael Beckwith, Lisa Nichols
[jamesray.com] www.jamesray.com/resources/oprah.php



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2010 05:53AM by The Anticult.

The scammers mantra:
OPM--Other Peoples Money.

Cosmic Connie posted about some previous blogs of her on this subject of asset protection 101 for scammers. [forum.culteducation.com]


For decades in even the most basic seminars on how to do LGAT seminars, lesson #1 is ASSET PROTECTION.
Literally, on day one, the guy gets up and screams at you that you must protect your assets. (they do this also to upsell you to other programs on that subject, and their financial "coaching" advisors they are selling as well).
These are not fancy or complex courses, James Ray took those courses many years ago.
There are many legal ways to shield assets, as well as many dubious areas, and of course illegal suitcases full of money.

But right at the financial LGAT seminars, they have these "advisors" come right into the seminar, and have an afternoon where they will meet with people one on one, and go through some of that.

This is one thing that a person can be assured of, that James Ray was doing that right from the beginning.
You don't have to be too smart to do it, it just takes having some money, and a phone call and a meeting with experts through your contacts. There are tons of experts who specialize in doing it in legal ways, and plenty that work the gray area.
They set up complex Asset-protection trusts, and who knows what.

But that is lesson #1 for the LGAT Guru, protect your assets. They are not into the seminar game for fun, they are there to make money, and they get sued a lot, and operate on the edge of bankruptcy.
This is not saying James Ray has zillions stashed, with his vanity and massive Ego he probably did spend a lot of the money away, and lose a lot of it on vanity projects.

But every LGAT Guru operates like this. If things go to ratshit for them, you are not going to find any real assets in their homes or companies. They have pillaged them long ago into empty shells. That is how they do it.

James Ray has made a conscious CHOICE to stay in jail and not post bail, or get the money from his family to post bail. That is a strategic choice made by James Ray.
It will be interesting to see what happens next.

I agree. JAR got into this business in order to benefit from OPM.

The first rule is to establish a flight fund, or moving money, a ready source of cash for when he has to get out of the business quick. Thereafter his financial strategy is built on salting away as much as possible in inaccessible places while preserving the veneer of a solid businessman with roots in the community.

I disagree with Cosmic Connie only on the point of feeling some compassion. Death Ray is hoping to trade on the compassion felt by less manipulative people, good enough reason for me to be very, very wary of extending compassion to him in any event.
It will be interesting to see if his followers match the compassion they are extending to him with the financial support he is expecting from them.

Yes, the LGAT Gurus deliberately and cynically exploit human emotions to their advantage. Most of them approach human emotions like "compassion" in a very cynical way. Many of them think of compassion like Ayn Rand, as a weakness. And they exploit that "weakness" in others. Werner Erhard did that constantly, they all do it.

The LGAT leaders deliberately tug on the heartstrings of their targets to manipulate and exploit them.
That is not theory. That is a FACT.

You can see the actual sales manuals where they tell you exactly how to do it. To find the customers pain, to deliberately and precisely magnify that pain and take it to emotional threshold, and then to make them think buying your products/services will stop the pain. (which it does for only a moment).
Then repeat repeat repeat, until they are broke.
And yes, they DELIBERATELY push people to go broke. That is also not a theory, but a FACT. This can be proven as they push and walk them through raising their credit card limits IN THE SEMINARS, and then get them to max them out buying their crap.
They deliberately push people to sign contracts they cannot get out of going years in advance, for the LGAT seminar packages.

Its frankly scary that so few people understand these cynical advanced SALES techniques they use to manipulate peoples emotions, and how they literally don't care what happens to you.
The James Ray system shows they don't care if you go bankrupt, they don't even care if you get seriously injured or die right before their eyes.



And concerning the wealth of James Ray, before The Secret and Oprah, James Ray was a small time player.
But he got primary placement in The Secret and was on Oprah several times. Each appearance on Oprah for those who are selling products translates into millions of dollars of sales for each appearance.
So the millions raked in by James Ray around the time of The Secret, has very little to do with James Ray. Its The Oprah Effect. [www.cnbc.com] [www.inc.com]

And this was the super Oprah effect, as Oprah hyped The Secret more than she hyped anything else in many years. All of the main people in The Secret made MILLIONS, thanks to Oprah. Rhonda Byrne made a quick fortune of many millions, and then just disappeared.
James Ray Inc raked in millions from The Oprah Effect and The Secret global mania.
Oprah promoted and hyped James Ray on her show several times, and in repeats. [forum.culteducation.com]
Oprah literally crowned James Ray the new Werner Erhard on her show 3 years ago, and he took that to the bank, and exploited it to the maximum. They made millions and millions, James Ray supposedly got a "7 figure" advance for one of his crappy books, that was just copied material from other writers.

The Science Of Success" by James Arthur Ray [forum.culteducation.com]

So those millions raked in from The Oprah Effect by James Ray in the last couple of years were moved away instantly somewhere. Maybe there is a non-profit "charity" controlled by family members sitting on some of it, and it could be anywhere.


note:
The link above about the James Ray book speculated that he worked for Tony Robbins in La Jolla. Well, turns out he did, which year was that?
[saltydroid.info]
QUOTE by Tony Robbins for James Ray:
“I wanted to thank you personally for your outstanding work with the Robbins Research Telemarketing Group and with our Life Mastery Trainers. The response to your energetic and motivational training sessions has been exceptional. Your commitment to personal and organizational mastery is evident in the unique technologies you have put together, and the effective interaction you facilitate.”



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/21/2010 03:28AM by The Anticult.