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Re: James Arthur Ray - Fractionation, hallucinations
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: December 17, 2009 02:34PM

Just to clarify about the Magick comment, its just some other websites seem to paint James Ray as some type of dark-magician who has some type of mystical power over people.
They ascribe some type of mystical significance to what he does.

In fact, James Ray is really a 3rd-rate covert persuader, who went berserk due to his insane greed, which seems to stem from his outrageous meglomania.
James Ray literally just copied many people's methods, like Tony Robbins. Tony Robbins was talking about Kava Kava long ago, and he built some stories around the Kava Kava, so James Ray just copied that. They could easily dose the Kava Kava with something, someone should have taken a sample of it, and had it analyzed.
But the Kava Kava becomes a metaphor, or a hook, and they hang all sorts of suggestions and stories around it, involving tribal trance rites, and whatever else they can pull out of their ass.

And the James Ray company answers the phone with the word OUTSTANDING, which was also copied from Tony Robbins. So he just copies other people's methods, and then makes them worse.

One other person asked what the significance of people staring into their own hands was. In fact, there is no significance in it at all. If anything, its there to bore people, and to take them further into a trance state.
To make trance deeper, you take people into trance, then out of it, then back in, many times. That is what James Ray is trying to do.
When people get into Deep Trance, then James Ray starts injecting JAMES RAY into the core of people's psyches. James Ray starts to literally PLAY GOD when people are that open and suggestible, and that gets implanted in their minds, the image of James Ray as God.

Then later, those people will do what he tells them to do, buy what he tells them to buy, and lie for him. Perhaps even take the fall for him.
The sexual manipulation of James Ray has not been touched on, but clearly he is sexually manipulating people as well, as seen with some of what is being reported, and with the people who he surrounds himself with.

It is looking like James Ray was going berserk with the power he was getting over people, and wanted to push people past the edge. Like a Stanford prison experiment [www.prisonexp.org] or a Milgram experiment [en.wikipedia.org] but it was not an experiment, it was for real.

Hopefully all of these James Ray staffers who have been covering things up will be held accountable.

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Re: James Arthur Ray - Fractionation, hallucinations
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: December 17, 2009 02:45PM

There are all kinds of links out there about Fractionation and hypnosis.
Just search Google for:

fractionation hypnosis


Just beware, there are extensive lies and misinformation out there, with people trying to sell everything under the sun, and making false claims. Its a real pit of snakes and vipers.
But one can see, even the "seduction" people try to use that method. (in reality, they just use it as a way to sell more products).

In reality, James Ray is extremely 3rd rate in his skills, but he makes up for it by being violently aggressive and by choosing soft-targets who have no idea of what he is doing.
For an audience experienced in these areas, James Ray would not get past first base, which is why he targets the New Age demographic, who seem to have no idea of anything he is doing to them, not even the basic sales techniques, never mind the advanced persuasion and deep trance perversion of hypnotherapy.


[www.hypnos.co.uk]
Fractionation -
In hypnosis, this is a method of induction (Vogt's fractionation method) where the subject is partially relaxed then roused and asked to recount the sensations experienced. Then the hypnosis/relaxation continues again, often with the therapist 'feeding back' the recounted experience and leading the patient still deeper. The patient is then roused again and his experiences sought, before the hypnosis resumes once again. The process continues until a deep trance state is obtained.

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Re: James Arthur Ray - Fractionation, hallucinations
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: December 17, 2009 02:52PM

[www.parkrapidsenterprise.com]
Editorial: Is regulation needed in self-help industry?
....A Park Rapids woman committed suicide in July while attending a self-help seminar in San Diego. Colleen Conaway’s family questions her death and association with self-help guru James Arthur Ray. They wonder how Conaway, who was in the prime of her life, could have committed suicide. Conaway’s family would like to see more regulation in the self-help industry.
Conaway’s death, along with three other deaths associated with a sweat lodge event near Sedona, Ariz., which was also led by James Arthur Ray, have made national headlines...

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Re: James Arthur Ray - Fractionation, hallucinations
Posted by: buffman ()
Date: December 17, 2009 03:21PM

Quote
The Anticult
In fact, James Ray is really a 3rd-rate covert persuader, who went berserk due to his insane greed, which seems to stem from his outrageous meglomania.

James Ray literally just copied many people's methods, like Tony Robbins. Tony Robbins was talking about Kava Kava long ago, and he built some stories around the Kava Kava, so James Ray just copied that.

Totally agreed there. I'd also say Ray is a third-rate magician, in the sense of a great magician is more like an ordinary, humble person or an anonymous monk. But this is a minor squabble--clearly Ray is a copycat sociopathic selfish-help guru, and possibly homicidal maniac (pending the decisions of the courts).

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Re: James Arthur Ray - Fractionation, hallucinations
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: December 17, 2009 03:26PM

There is an photo of James Ray at the Rat which sums up James Ray's real mentality towards other people.

[rumorrat.com]

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Re: James Arthur Ray - 2 die at Arizona retreat's sweat lodge
Posted by: Sol Ivictus ()
Date: December 18, 2009 02:37AM

Can some one give more details on the hand staring technique? I think there may be more then boredom involved. But before put out my theory I'd like to know more details on what he actually has them do.

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Re: James Arthur Ray - 2 die at Arizona retreat's sweat lodge
Posted by: buffman ()
Date: December 18, 2009 02:12PM

I'm not sure of the details of what Ray did, but asking someone to stare at their hand is a common hypnosis induction. Try holding your gaze steady at any object for 30 seconds to 5 minutes and you'll find yourself going into a trance. Do it for 2 hours again and again after a 16 hour intense seminar and you'll be utterly delirious.

If in doubt, try it yourself--stare at your hand and say "is this a dream, or is this reality?" for a couple hours and let us know what happened.

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Re: James Arthur Ray - 2 die at Arizona retreat's sweat lodge
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: December 18, 2009 02:26PM

Again, I was being somewhat glib about the boredom involved.
But that is a part of it, endless repetition, is a part of it.

In reality, to properly analyze the hand-staring technique from James Ray, you would need a lot more detail of exactly what was said, and exactly what was done.
That way you can look at the specific suggestions, and embedded suggestions.

But as described in the article, he was using fractionation, coming in and out of trance states, which is an advanced and common technique to get people into deep trance states, where they are the most suggestible.
Two hours is not long at all to try and achieve those deep trance states, it can go much longer that that.

And the hand-staring, is just a point of focus. It could be staring at a spot on the wall, or a swinging watch, it doesn't matter.
When they repeat the suggestion..."Is this real or is this a dream?” they are triggering those dreamlike deep trance states.
Some people who get into deep trance, easily hallucinate like a dream. Or they can have a negative hallucination and not see the chair in front of them.
So James Ray is just using that technique to try and take people into deep trance states, so then he can implant the images of himself as "God", literally, in their minds.
Don't forget, the entire weekend he's paying those "games" of his where James Ray is "God" and commands people to die.

Combine that with deep trance states, and people can literally die. Its a myth to think people cannot harm themselves in deep trance states, they can harm themselves, and kill themselves.
Its very scary and sad that people would play-along and go into those deep trance states with such an obviously disturbed person like James Ray. But James Ray cons them, and tricks them, and makes them initially feel comfortable, and takes advantage of the fact they have not been trained in how these things work.



________QUOTE from article_____________
Another activity at Modern Magick is something called “Dreamers and Dreamed”. Participants were put on silence and not allowed to talk to anyone and then had to wander around to different “stations”. At these “stations” the participants were supposed to hold their arms out in front of their face and look at their palms. They would then flip their hands to look at the back and say something like “Is this real or is this a dream?” after they had done this at the different stations they would go back to the classroom and lay down on their mat. They would rest for a bit and then they were supposed to get up and do the exact same thing, over and over again. This went on for about two hours, maybe longer. It was stressed to participants how important it was to do the exact same routine without variation.
______QUOTE____________

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Re: James Arthur Ray - 2 die at Arizona retreat's sweat lodge
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: December 18, 2009 02:29PM

Boring the shit out of people and confusing the hell out of them, is all part of advanced hypnosis.
Its like when you are driving on a flat highway for a long time, you can naturally go into a deep trance state.

Quote
buffman
I'm not sure of the details of what Ray did, but asking someone to stare at their hand is a common hypnosis induction. Try holding your gaze steady at any object for 30 seconds to 5 minutes and you'll find yourself going into a trance. Do it for 2 hours again and again after a 16 hour intense seminar and you'll be utterly delirious.

If in doubt, try it yourself--stare at your hand and say "is this a dream, or is this reality?" for a couple hours and let us know what happened.

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Re: James Arthur Ray - 2 die at Arizona retreat's sweat lodge
Posted by: buffman ()
Date: December 18, 2009 02:52PM

We should think of the hand-staring exercise as the grand finale of a looooong day of unlicensed therapy and unsafe psychological and spiritual practices.

Starting at 8 or 9am, it is now 1am the same day. A room full of midwestern soccer moms are already in the dream state due to the long hours and intense practices. The thought-stopping mantra "is this real or is this a dream?" in this context encourages participants to lose touch with reality. This isn't just a confusion technique to bypass the conscious mind, it is literally an attempt to confuse people as to what is real. The likelihood of psychosis or worse is very high in such circumstances, and the result is that most people will accept whatever Ray tells them is real in order to find some semblance of sanity.

In very different contexts, these techniques can be used for good. For example, one can learn to lucid dream with a similar mantra. In Stephen LaBerge's well-researched book Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming, he recommends asking yourself several times a day "Am I dreaming right now?" so that you then find yourself asking the same question in a dream and become lucid. But he doesn't say to repeat this for multiple hours over and over after a day full of intense processing of your deepest childhood wounds with strangers while a sociopath tells you the reality he wants you to adopt. Very different.

Similarly, one can enter a nice meditative state of concentration or absorption by staring at a spot on the wall or watching a candle flame for 5-10 minutes, or even as long as an hour, or even many hours on a legit meditation retreat. But again, within reasonable limits and for purposes of healing or developing concentration or stress-relief, not for attaining infinite wealth--and more accurately, giving your wealth to some egomaniac.

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