Note to CosmicConnie...
...if you read this! Concerning some comments on Shamblog, about this thread.
(for the record, it appears the Sham situation in this forum was mainly a miscommunication. I thought SHAM was a good book, and we need more books like that, with even more specific detail on exactly HOW they get away with it).
But its amazing how distorted viewpoints can get, and this is just to try to clarify a few points.
Dave Lakhani, cult mind control tactics, covert manipulation [
forum.culteducation.com]
First off, of course you were NOT taken to task for twittering with Dave Lakhani.
As said in the thread, there is no twitter police, its a free country as they say. But ole Dave Lakhani was deconstructed pretty intensely in the thread on him, and it wasn't very pretty, and got downright ugly very fast, with Lakhani trying some of his tactics.
Dave Lakhani advertises himself as a PROPAGANDIST. That part is true.
The seminar Lakhani was doing in Vegas with Kevin Hogan? You know what those guys are doing to people's heads/wallets over there, with Kevin Hogan and the gang? Not pretty either. A younger James Ray would love those seminars in Vegas, to learn some more weapons he could use.
Ever been to one of those hard-core "covert persuasion" seminars?
Some of those analyzing this material have been to the top seminars that Kevin Hogan and Dave Lakhani got their material from. The same material they try and sign people to bogus "trade secret" contracts about.
As far as this thread implying that you didn't know that Dave Lakhani is "diabolical" that has to be a joke, right? Does anyone recall anyone saying anything like that?
Dave Lakhani is not diabolical, he's pretty obvious to anyone with any training in the area. He's misleading, and misdirecting. (for your own good, of course, so he says).
Of course Dave Lakhani can be a smooth talker, no one is going to deny that, he does it for a living.
But he also is, to pardon the french, full of shit!
For example, he claims in his advertising he is an NLP Master Practitioner, but he is not. Not a certified one, as he won't prove it. Why not? He's just used to making that claim to people who have no concept of what he is talking about. Like when a new ager says he is a self-taught Quantum Physicist.
Dave Lakhani referred people to the C.A.N. which was taken over by Scientology years ago. That is very serious, for someone who supposedly is against Scientology? Referring people to a Scientology front-group?
So of course there is not Twitter police, of course anyone can do what they want.
But Dave Lakhani is a slippery smooth operator, and acts like a bully when he chooses, which is shown in many places. If people want to learn their lessons in the school of hard knocks, so be it.
But some folks looking into Dave Lakhani, actually went and accessed his books and materials and studied them quite carefully. [
forum.culteducation.com]
The "free" comments in forums like these are much more helpful to the average person, than getting upsold by someone like Dave Lakhani.
His material on persuasion gets an F.
Its not good material, its all derivative, and at best 4th-5th hand. Meanwhile, he promises to reveal the REAL secrets if you join his inner circle, if you've got the cash, and only if he'll "accept you".
Oh please, that is sleazy stuff.
And yes, Dave Lakhani is a smooth talker, and a professional persuader and salesman, and a professional propagandist. So sure, he could bend the head of most people, who are not trained in that area. Especially when he does it in private where it can't be analyzed and challenged.
Yes, the language in these threads can be direct and blunt, but its important to be direct and blunt, to cut through the mountain of bullshit and misdirection in this area.
Conspiracies?
Where specifically in these threads, has there ever been a "conspiracy" around every corner? Why say such a thing?
On the contrary, conspiracy theories are universally debunked. Where in the James Ray case has there been a conspiracy theory?
Why say such a thing, about threads that contain important information that is not contained anywhere else?
There are more FACTS in some of these threads, than in EVERY book ever written by an LGAT Guru in their entire career. Example being Byron Katie, and many others.
There are people who post in these threads, who may not have training in the areas, but are trying to figure out what the hell happened to them, or their loved one. People are really getting hurt, they are getting scammed for thousands of dollars, and worse.
As far as the NLP hypno-persuasion, that is also a fact, as James Ray studied those techniques in Hawaii, and from Tony Robbins. Its a proven fact, even though James Ray tried to conceal that aspect of his training, as he didn't want to give that part away. Notice how those who are trained in these areas CONCEAL it, where others who are not, advertise they are certified NLP Master Practitioners, when they are not? (like Lakhani, for example).
Most people have no idea of where Tony Robbins learned his skills, or what those skills are, and James Ray is not the only one to have studied with those Gurus.
James Ray even uses actual basic techniques from Cialdini like Social Proof, another proven fact.
James Ray hasn't just made it a point to study persuasion techniques, that is his LIFE. That is all he's done for at least 2 decades.
Some posters here have been on the other side of the fence, and have seen these guys in action first hand.
Blunt direct and even harsh language is essential. The flowerly or overly neutral objective language found in mainstream journalism, is not going to cut it, and certainly won't help real people deal with what is going on. Of course it has its place, but its very superficial.
And even taking the strict Skeptic Carl Sagan approach is very helpful, but its not enough.
When dealing with advanced covert persuasion, there is never going to be complete information, and there is only so much time to analyze information, and so much of it is disinformation.
So a person has to make as accurate judgements as possible, with incomplete information, sometimes when they are up to their neck in it.
To break through the deep programming contained in many of these covert persuasion methods, it takes some blunt, forceful, and harsh language. That is deliberate, to cut through the bullshit.
CosmicConnie does a good job on her blogs, but if there are questions or concerns, why not post a question here openly, to get a clarification?
Of course each person has to make up their own minds about extremely complex processes and situations. Its complex and tough stuff.
Dave Lakhani for example, advertises himself as an NLP expert Master Practitioner. Is he? Or was that fabricated for marketing purposes to impress those who don't know any better?
Wonder why Lakhani lost his cool?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/20/2010 11:11AM by The Anticult.