But who knows, maybe they have a complicated strategy to get immunity for the employees, who then just say they can't remember anything.
Then later, James Ray blames everyone else, but they already have immunity, so it just turns into a mistrial or reduced charges.

JRs lawyers claimed the number of rounds had been reduced. But the fellow who was tending the fire said he couldn't work out why they added a round. Looks like the lawyers are up to something. I think it will definitely be an aspect of the trial.

Seven rounds for seven chakras makes sense (in that special new age way). Surely cutting out an entire chakra as the lawyers suggested would be sacreligous to the Native American Hindu Mosaic traditions that were guiding the the lodge.

I have no doubt at all that Death Ray will be setting up the Dir of Ops and hubby to try to take the heat off himself. He had no qualms about killing his customers, he's unlikely to have qualms about throwing his employees under the bus.

It would be interesting to know who paid for the employees legal representative, he didn't seem to be working too hard in his clients best interests, in my reading of the transcripts. Perhaps I am maligning him but I had the cynical thought whilst reading that he might have loyalties elsewhere than in advising the employees to fully co-operate with the investigators (as the immunity deal demanded).



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/2010 06:16AM by Stoic.

Josh & Meg both have the same lawyer, so they are both getting the same strategy. JR seems to have a dozen lawyers plus Clinton's fixer, Fabiani working for him. J & M probably only have the one JR provided lawyer.

FRom the transcripts, the investigators seem like they have him surprisingly well sussed. Still, I guess experience with hardened criminals is a suitable background for sussing JRs game.

New update: Bail reduction granted
[apps.supremecourt.az.gov]

A poster on the salty site who was an attorney says the bail reduction response from the
YCSO has been granted as under seal. The hearing to settle the issue of bail reduction is on the 23 Feb according to this report:

azcentral bail order

[www.flickr.com]

Make sure to get copies and repost this James Ray photo and to search for others, before they are disappeared from the internet. It contains a James Ray catchphrase...

GOD
MONEY
SEX

Ray then draws a tic-tac-toe of ONE through it.

Ray has shown he wants his followers to think of Ray as GOD.
Ray has shown he wants to take all of his followers MONEY.
Ray says GOD MONEY SEX are ONE.

Ray playacts and says he is God, Ray takes all of your money, but that's not enough.
Do the math, all the signs are there, that there is sex within the harem of young women Ray has surrounded himself with. Many manipulative leaders use sex to control and deeply emotionally involve their inner circle followers, using sex and emotion to manipulate.
Rael of the Raelians [www.culteducation.com] also uses sex in his harem, and also uses sex to recruit new followers, as do many others, like Seung Sahn [forum.culteducation.com] and countless other sect leaders.

When the entire James Ray can of worms gets opened up over the next months and years, what has gone on in the Ray Org looks looks to be even worse than expected. Ray is using every technique available to LGAT seminar leaders, and has gone way beyond those and is using the most destructive techniques that can be used on people.

Ewww..
Speaking as a female, I find absolutely nothing physically appealing about James Ray. I saw him in person a couple of years before this incident and, ick. He looked like a cheesy used car salesman to me. I think he uses emotions to manipulate, it's definitely not his looks...

Reading Josh and Megan's police interviews, I don't know understand how they could put themselves in such a dangerous position for this man. They had immunity, they could have protected themselves. Just bizarre. I remember reading once that a symptom of battered woman syndrome is a belief that their abuser is somehow omnipotent, as illogical as that sounds. Maybe that's a factor here, especially with JR actually PLAYING God in his role-playing exercises.

There is a strange dynamic that takes place in many groups/sects, where the Guru may be physically very ugly and crass, but the deeply indoctrinated literally perceive that person as being very beautiful, and even divine and Godlike.
From looking at this for some time, the Guru is able to quite precisely ENGINEER into their followers, a psychological projection onto themselves. Sometimes the projection is of "God" or the divine, or of being an Enlightened person. They are also able to trigger romantic and sexual transference projections onto themselves, by using very precise techniques done in groups or individually.
On a banal level, they also try to make themselves into a "celebrity" in the minds of their followers, to create those projections as well, so their followers idealize them like a Rock Star, or celebrity.

There are very precise techniques to engineer that into followers minds. (like not allowing any follower to talk to the Guru, or even look at the Guru unless given permission, and like playing God). There are far more precise tech from the NLP areas, where they literally deconstruct peoples beliefs about "God" and then precisely anchor that to the Guru, using very specific methods, and repetition, and indirect and direct suggestion. This is done without the persons conscious awareness.


As far as Megan-Josh, they cannot be classified as victims of James Ray anymore.
Pretty much everyone starts out being victimized by the LGAT Guru like James Ray, but among those who are lured in, there are some who join the Guru's business.
They join the shark in the hunt, with quite full awareness. Some of the most senior salespeople are extremely aware of what is going on.
Anyone who has worked closely inside an LGAT seminar corp for even a short period of time, sees what is REALLY going on. It does not take long, if the person pays attention at all. They see the same people coming back to the seminars, and not getting better but getting worse, and they see the ruthless SALES tech being used, and how people are getting cleaned out financially by the LGAT seminar system.
That does not take years to figure out, anyone who has a shred of intellectually honestly can see it in a few months on the inside.

So when a Megan-Josh have been a right hand accompliss of James Ray for YEARS and YEARS, of course they know what is going on, top to bottom.
James Ray would select those he knows can do the jobs he wants them to do, and the more you do what James God Ray wants, the more praise you get from the Guru Godman, like being promoted to run the seminars and websites.
He also fires those who don't follow orders without questioning.
The Guru seeks out and SELECTS his henchpeople. Even Megan and Josh admit that.

Some of the most ruthless and even criminal acts done by various Gurus, have been done through their senior followers. Look at any group out there. Some of the senior inner circle of the Guru can be the hatchet-people, the ones who carry out the orders of the Guru.
If there is an accident or death at a seminar to cover-up, the Guru is not going to leave a voicemail. He gets his closest inner circle Rays Angels to make the call, and leave the voicemail.
If asked, the Guru says he knew nothing about it.
The Guru can even try to play innocent and say he left the scene of a tragedy, because he was told to by his staff.

Those who are close to these exploitative Gurus long ago ceased to be classified as victims, like those who are getting scammed at the seminars, and cleaned out of every dollar they can borrow.
They become co-perps and accomplisses.
Of course they are indoctrinated and are true believers, but they can also be quite cynical as well, especially about their customers and followers.
But many of the ugliest acts of many groups and sects have not been carried out by the Guru directly, but by their senior inner circle, and many of them have been women as well as men. The Guru knows how to recruit and select their inner circle.

There is a very good argument to be made, that most of the terrible and even criminal acts carried out in groups and sects, is done through the senior inner circle of the Guru.

Anticult,
I think you under estimate a bit the strength of belief in long term true believers..If you were lucky enough to never get caught into a cult long term, then it may be hard to understand how someone cannot exercise intellectual ability to get themselves out of cult think. But the reality is, belief operates on a different "gut " level and even very smart people can get conned. There are various common psychological mechanisms which people use to prevent themselves from being aware of the cognitive dissonance involved.


You see if one is operating from a belief system for example that "vomiting is a wonderful sign of removing toxins and very cleansing" then there may be no real awareness that "hey, people are dying here.."

Unfortunately we are all as human beings capable of allowing bad things to happen for what we percieve as the greater good.

We send soldiers out to murder other people, with our blessings, because we believe (often rightly) that if we don't harm will come to those we love.

loving parents can hold down children while they scream in pain if they believe for example that a painful medical treatment is neccessary, and that there is no alternative.

I think many people find it hard to realize that those long term believers who do these kinds of things in cults are not neccessarily evil. Instead they are often operating from a place where they believe that what they are doing is "for the greater good'.

It is the heart breaking thing that so often the cult belief system in which they have placed all their faith is so often completely wrong and sometimes dangerous.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/19/2010 12:35PM by yasmin.