Quote
The Anticult

New Warrior Training Adventure® is trying to do some serious PR [mankindproject.org] to distance themselves from James Ray, like everyone else in the New Age and LGAT business.

When I tried to access this page I got:

Access denied
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You are not authorized to access this page.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Maybe the MKP hierarchy are monitoring this thread!!!!

ST



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2009 10:21AM by SeekingTruth.

Reading the website they start their followers FREE. So perhaps a good way to learn how to make a death lodge for business purposes. What's better for business than that, right?


This is in the FAQ from the Mankindproject.org...

Are you affiliated with James Arthur Ray or the Spiritual Warrior Training?

The ManKind Project is in no way associated with James Arthur Ray or the Spiritual Warrior Training. We are deeply saddened and extend our heartfelt condolences to those affected by the October 2009 tragedy in Sedona, Arizona.


Hopefully all the media members that read this forum can investigate any records of the events Mr. James Ray has attended in the last 25 years. He claims at his seminars of attending as many seminars per year as possible. He asks audiences, hope many events like this do you need to attend each year to make a difference in your results, 3,4,5? This events changed his life he always says but, I'm really pondering in which way now. Learning techniques I guess.


To add a little nugget from my visit to a seminar in May 09, James Ray told the story of a man that attended an event January of 2009. The Harmonic Wealth Seminar changed his life he said. James Ray later in the day introduced the man as a "student" who will soon be presenting seminars in New Jersey on Harmonic Wealth for him. James Ray said, that the guy would make him a lot of money. After reading or skimming through this forum prior to my first visit to a LGAT seminar, that was my "OMG moment". The poor man looked like he was brainwashed on this stuff. Brainwashed is an understatement, a better way to express it would be that he was hypnotized. He was not the only person associated with James Ray that looked like that either. Some of the women in his "Dream Team" were robotic my friends. I do consider that James Arthur Ray has taught some good lessons but, reasoning was never taught. I feel for the men and women, even myself for thinking that $20,000 could bring "righteous" change to my life. I didn't spend that much, bless the Lord but, plenty of people around me did.

That MKP "access denied" is just a generic message.
It looks like they have blocked viewing of that page. The article was pulled from other websites too. Maybe they only wanted it out for a short while for the media.

The page seems to available elsewhere if you search the internet for their PR catchphrase...

------ MKP Not Associated with 'Sweat Lodge' Incident in Arizona --------

It could be reposted here, but its just MKP propaganda for their fake sweatlodge, and directly conflicts with reports about their fake sweatlodges.

But regardless, its still in search engines caches for now, but it will disappear soon.
Grab it while its there.

[74.125.155.132]

Its looking like MKP uses their bogus "sweatlodge" as a central part of their LGAT seminar system, that could be analyzed closely.
Ironically, MKP is now directly linked to the "sweat lodge incident" in Arizona with James Arthur Ray.
It will be interesting if it turns out that James Ray took some seminars with MKP at some point, and just copied their method, like he copied everyone elses stuff.

The native american activists could be alerted about how Mankind Project is claiming to also use a "sweat lodge".



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2009 01:39PM by The Anticult.

There is an alleged worksheet from the James Ray death lodge event.

[www.examiner.com]
______________alleged worksheet quote________________________
Worksheet title: "Opening Black Bags: Hooks, Holes, and Damns"

Events: During which your sexual vision was created or modified (e.g. opinions of what is right and wrong, good and bad)”
“Of sexual experiences, during which you resigned or lost something that was an expression of your ‘identity’, during which fears were programmed, with painful emotion, of which you are ashamed”.
“People with whom I have had sex, relatives (e.g. parents [or anyone acting in a parental role], family), friends, partners (e.g. business or otherwise), companions in school, people related to my spiritual quest, people with the greatest impact, teachers, clergy)."
______________________________

There seems to be some confusion of what the purpose is of the worksheet.
Its not confusing at all.
Its by the book. Its all there in the text, and that can be analyzed.

What he wants to do is to open up peoples painful unconscious memories and trauma.
Specifically, sexual trauma, sexual abuse that affected your IDENTITY connected with painful emotions and shame.
He wants to go right into the very CORE of the person.

Doing what James Ray is instructing here, is certainly the most damaging and dangerous things a person can do with trauma.
If you have trauma or sexual trauma, you do NOT FLOOD your psyche with all of the pain at once, as once the pain starts, sometimes it cannot be stopped and people commit suicide.
Imagine what happens to these people when they are sleep deprived and food deprived? You could crack up.
In normal circumstances dealing with that level of abuse with a licensed professional, its dealt with very carefully with 24 hr supports in place.

Why? Because triggering trauma and PTSD can lead to suicide, that can occur very rapidly. All of a persons defenses can break down, and they get FLOODED with terrible traumatic pain that does not stop.

James Ray knows this.
Byron Katie know this.
They both actively seek out the sexual trauma's in people's psyches and TRIGGER it, and FLOOD the person with it.
That is the worst possible thing you could ever do, as it could lead to a breakdown, suicide, hospitalization, psychoses, and all sorts of terrible problems that take years to try and repair.
Its literally a retraumatization and a revictimization.

The licensed professionals who deal with sexual trauma know that treating trauma is a very difficult thing.
But these LGAT maniacs run around and Trigger Trauma in people to make themselves feel powerful, and also to push people into having a breakdown.
Its beyond malpractice.
Its lethal.

James Ray targets the sexual trauma, as he knows his target audience has many of those issues, and it goes right to the CORE of the psyche.
There is also a fantasy many people have of purging and catharsis with trauma, like they can "get it all out".
That has been proven to be 100% false.
It makes it much worse.
Trauma has to be dealt with properly.

Wht James Ray and others are doing here, is literally trying to open up people's core traumas and PTSD, and sexual abuse. Once the psyche starts to get FLOODED, they can't turn it off. This makes the person even more dependant on James Ray, and they keep running to more seminars trying to get relief, but it just gets worse.
The person can "fall apart" and for years struggle. You can bet there are many many people who attended the James Ray seminars who years later are still trying to put the pieces back together again.

He is literally doing the opposite of what needs to be done with the trauma, it needs to be approached strategically with the help of trained professionals.

Frankly, this is most likely happened to those who committed suicide. They crack open people's minds, and perhaps a person has a trauma buried away, and it just overwhelms the person, and the pain won't stop. They try more seminars, the pain just gets worse, and they get hopeless, or have a psychotic break.

Its truly cruel and heartless malpractice these guys are engaging in.
Please, never allow any crazy seminar Guru, or anyone, to crack open your traumas like cracking open an egg. It can be lethal.
See a licensed highly trained professional in the field.

[twitter.com] ".@danbharris Thank you for mentioning Colleen Conaway's suicide during July James Arthur Ray event - 4 deaths in 90 days"


So Colleen Conaway was mentioned on Nightline tonight.

The local San Diego media should have been all over this story long ago. Why the delay?
Another person died at a seminar of James Ray.
Why not interview the authorities, family, and witnesses?

Quote
The Anticult
There is an alleged worksheet from the James Ray death lodge event.

[www.examiner.com]
______________alleged worksheet quote________________________
Worksheet title: "Opening Black Bags: Hooks, Holes, and Damns"

Events: During which your sexual vision was created or modified (e.g. opinions of what is right and wrong, good and bad)”
“Of sexual experiences, during which you resigned or lost something that was an expression of your ‘identity’, during which fears were programmed, with painful emotion, of which you are ashamed”.
“People with whom I have had sex, relatives (e.g. parents [or anyone acting in a parental role], family), friends, partners (e.g. business or otherwise), companions in school, people related to my spiritual quest, people with the greatest impact, teachers, clergy)."
______________________________

There seems to be some confusion of what the purpose is of the worksheet.
Its not confusing at all.
Its by the book. Its all there in the text, and that can be analyzed.

What he wants to do is to open up peoples painful unconscious memories and trauma.
Specifically, sexual trauma, sexual abuse that affected your IDENTITY connected with painful emotions and shame.
He wants to go right into the very CORE of the person.

Doing what James Ray is instructing here, is certainly the most damaging and dangerous things a person can do with trauma.
If you have trauma or sexual trauma, you do NOT FLOOD your psyche with all of the pain at once, as once the pain starts, sometimes it cannot be stopped and people commit suicide.
Imagine what happens to these people when they are sleep deprived and food deprived? You could crack up.
In normal circumstances dealing with that level of abuse with a licensed professional, its dealt with very carefully with 24 hr supports in place.

Why? Because triggering trauma and PTSD can lead to suicide, that can occur very rapidly. All of a persons defenses can break down, and they get FLOODED with terrible traumatic pain that does not stop.

James Ray knows this.
Byron Katie know this.
They both actively seek out the sexual trauma's in people's psyches and TRIGGER it, and FLOOD the person with it.
That is the worst possible thing you could ever do, as it could lead to a breakdown, suicide, hospitalization, psychoses, and all sorts of terrible problems that take years to try and repair.
Its literally a retraumatization and a revictimization.

The licensed professionals who deal with sexual trauma know that treating trauma is a very difficult thing.
But these LGAT maniacs run around and Trigger Trauma in people to make themselves feel powerful, and also to push people into having a breakdown.
Its beyond malpractice.
Its lethal.

James Ray targets the sexual trauma, as he knows his target audience has many of those issues, and it goes right to the CORE of the psyche.
There is also a fantasy many people have of purging and catharsis with trauma, like they can "get it all out".
That has been proven to be 100% false.
It makes it much worse.
Trauma has to be dealt with properly.

Wht James Ray and others are doing here, is literally trying to open up people's core traumas and PTSD, and sexual abuse. Once the psyche starts to get FLOODED, they can't turn it off. This makes the person even more dependant on James Ray, and they keep running to more seminars trying to get relief, but it just gets worse.
The person can "fall apart" and for years struggle. You can bet there are many many people who attended the James Ray seminars who years later are still trying to put the pieces back together again.

He is literally doing the opposite of what needs to be done with the trauma, it needs to be approached strategically with the help of trained professionals.

Frankly, this is most likely happened to those who committed suicide. They crack open people's minds, and perhaps a person has a trauma buried away, and it just overwhelms the person, and the pain won't stop. They try more seminars, the pain just gets worse, and they get hopeless, or have a psychotic break.

Its truly cruel and heartless malpractice these guys are engaging in.
Please, never allow any crazy seminar Guru, or anyone, to crack open your traumas like cracking open an egg. It can be lethal.
See a licensed highly trained professional in the field.

where did you get this information?

could you please pass the link?

ive never heard of such thing

the story is not on the news cause its not "hot"

Thank you. Re: MKP and their statement:

Quote
The Anticult

[74.125.155.132]

It seems to be a categoric statement of their position of non-involvment with JAR-type sweat lodges and that safety is their priority. Strange that they should block it. What are they hiding or ashamed of? Why have they removed it?

Anyway it says (in part):

"There is no fasting prior to the sweat, and participants are fully hydrated before beginning." I understood that food deprivation is part of the MKP weekend. Or if the 'ceremony' is after the breaking of the weekend fast, that too is dangerous. Never take a sauna on an empty stomach, nor a full one. And what about topping up the hydration during the event?

"Men are given specific instruction on how to handle the heat in the lodge, and we make it clear that the P&R is not an 'endurance' contest ." Hmm - including touching the cocks of the men beside you?

"The participants spend an hour or less in the lodge, and the door of the structure is opened at least three times during the experience to reduce the effects of the heat and to verbally check in with every man." Only verbally? What about visually too. After all if a guy faints he ain't gonna say anything thing is he?

"No man is required to participate, and men are encouraged to leave if they begin to feel light headed or overheated. " But peer group pressure makes sure that no-one 'wimps out.'

Lies and lies and yet more lies from the MKP stable.

ST



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2009 05:04PM by SeekingTruth.

Fasinating and 100% accurate comment below about these "worksheets" people fill out at LGAT seminars. Its absolutely 100% factual and true.
People fill out these forms, and they go into the database.
And not just the psychological deep dark secrets and traumas.

Just as important, and MORE important, are the FINANCIAL details you fill out at the "financial" seminars.
They tell you they are going to come up with a "plan" to make you richer. But of course, you first need to fill out forms about your assets, income, debts, houses, net worth, spouses income, and everything else they can get.

All of that information gets entered into their databases immediately. That information is GOLD for them.
Don't get duped. They go through the forms, and find people with high incomes, and lots of assets, and those people become the hot-leads for the salespeople.
And of course they cross-reference that with the personal psychological information.

That is reality.
That is a fact.
That is how it works.
Many people get cleaned out, literally, and pushed into the high-end memberships, where they will scoop 60K a year off them, for nothing, for meeting the guru with 100 other people.
Others might get scooped for 100K a year in telephone coaching, if they have the money. Or even more.
Or they will take a mere 20K from a regular person too, they are not too fussy. Money is money.

Every piece of information you write down, especially financial, is databased with your NAME in fancy contact management software. When the salesperson talks to you on the phone, they open your digital file, and make notes in your dossier.
Of course.

And if your financials show you are broke like more than 50% of the people at the LGAT, then guess what? Then you get to be a "volunteer" and work for free at the seminar events.
If you are broke and won't volunteer, then they will stop calling.

Never ever give an LGAT seminar guru or their "staff" any personal information, unless you want it in their digital database forever, under your name, income, assets, personal issues, traumas...



__________QUOTE_________________________
[www.examiner.com]
seminar participant says:
This is important people - here is why - I was a staff member on a tony robbins event once, and they had another staff person in the back of the room going through these types of questionaires...supposedly confidential, but anyone could see them in back. When tony would call on someone, they would kick into gear in the back, find his or her's form, and there was a monitor on stage and they would type tony information on the teleprompter screen, deeply personal stuff about the person, and tony would use it from stage - sometimes to embarass the person into complying with tony's strategy for "change". People would always think what a genius he is and how he read everyone's questionaire...but in truth it is just like the cheap con game where someone is talking into his ear with details of the person's life - it was pretty upsetting to me, as I had been "worked on" by tony in the room before, and now I saw the darker side of his genius.
October 30, 11:48 AM
__________________________________

Nightline - ABC News [abcnews.go.com] did a special on James Arthur Ray, the video is now online.
Part 1: Healing Seekers
Part 2: Deadly Treatment
Part 3: James Ray: The Guru
Were others injured in the past for people seeking treatment from James A. Ray?
[abcnews.go.com]

Its a decent overview but doesn't get into the deeper issues, of these advanced methods and techniques of persuasion being used on these people.
Clearly standard journalists and their editors are not able, or interested, in exploring some of the more complex issues at play.
It would take a more investigative journalist, and a 1 hour special at least.
Some investigative journalist could win themselves an Emmy for carefully exploring the world of LGAT style seminar group persuasion!

But part 3 of Nightline does mention that Colleen Conaway died while attending a James Ray seminar just before Sedona, but goes into no details about what happened.
It took 2 weeks for the national news to report about Colleen, how much longer before someone looks into the details?