It's one thing to embrace different cultures. It's another thing to try and mimic those cultures without any true understanding. Where my sister lives, there are many Native Americans. She's been to several ritual sweats. For one thing, the women are not allowed to sweat with the men. There's more to it, of course. My advice is to try to embrace different cultures instead of trying to mimic them. I might like the benefits of acupuncture but I'd never try to blindly stick needles into one of my friends.

Mary Struggler

3rd person dies in Ariz. sweat lodge ceremony case

[www.google.com]

They are said to have died 'by choice...'

[www.azcentral.com]

[www.nypost.com]
Mystic's past is guru-some
Injury, suicide at seminars
By JEANE MacINTOSH October 19, 2009

Even before a sweat-lodge retreat led by guru James Arthur Ray claimed its third victim over the weekend, his seminars were already tainted by serious injury and even suicide, The Post has learned.

Ray -- billed as a motivational prophet in the flick "The Secret" and touted by Oprah -- is at the center of a murder probe after two people, including Kirby Brown, a 38-year-old upstate woman, died at an Oct. 8 "sweat-lodge" event he led near Sedona, Ariz.

A third victim, Liz Neuman, 49, from Minnesota, died Saturday from injuries sustained at the event, and her family plans to sue.

Ray's past seminars are also peppered with horrific incidents, public records show, including:

* The July 2009 suicide of a Minnesota woman who jumped three floors to her death from a San Diego mall balcony.

* A May 2005 event at Disney World, where a New Jersey woman shattered her hand after Ray allegedly bullied her into performing a ritualistic board-breaking exercise

On July 25, just 10 weeks before the sweat-lodge deaths, Colleen Conaway, a typically cheerful 46-year-old from Minnesota, made her fatal plunge at the California mall.

Like the victims in Arizona, Conaway had no identification on her when she died, according to law enforcement.

After the jump, Ray and his staffers left the mall knowing that Conaway was missing from the group, according to authorities.

"I had just talked to her two days before, and she was still the sister I knew," said Lynn.

"I can't even comprehend what changed, what went on in those two days that would cause her to do this."

In the Disney World incident, a 2005 negligence lawsuit charged a "reckless" Ray pushed seminar attendee Diane Konopka to smash the board to "overcome . . . self-esteem issues."

Repeatedly unsuccessful, the "humiliated" and "extremely exhausted" Konopka felt "she had no choice" but to do what Ray demanded, the suit says.

The guru settled in 2007 for an undisclosed sum.

After the sweat-lodge tragedy, Ray quickly left town and has declined to be interviewed by police.

A spokesman for Ray declined comment.

____________________________________



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/2009 10:20PM by The Anticult.

There it is, its about time.

QUOTE:[www.nypost.com] "Like the victims in Arizona, Conaway had no identification on her when she died, according to law enforcement.
After the jump, Ray and his staffers left the mall knowing that Conaway was missing from the group, according to authorities."

Oct 14 2009 it was pointed out here that the CBS blog website had comments about a "Colleen" dying at a James Ray seminar. [forum.culteducation.com]
Within a couple of hours it was determined that this was Colleen Conaway by basic searches of the public internet.


But one thing the media have not picked up on yet, is that one of the members of the James Ray CAW seminar, an "AFGrant" claims to have been a witness to the suicide in his blog. October 16, 2009 [forum.culteducation.com]
AFGrant Twitter comment about the suicide [forum.culteducation.com]
And that same person now claims in a blog comment to have told James Ray and others about the suicide.
[www.afgrant.com]


Meanwhile, various people/staff who attended that James Ray CAW seminar in San Diego have said they were not told about Colleen Conaway.
But according to authorities from the article above, they knew she was missing.

People are supposed to be dumb enough believe that they knew Colleen was missing, a member of the seminar saw the suicide from close enough to know it was "intentional", that this same person told James Ray and other staffers about the suicide, and they never figured it out and left the mall?

They left the mall without Colleen Conaway who did not have ID and was dressed as a homeless person?

Then worse, in the hours, days, weeks and months since, that no one figured out it was her that day, when figuring that out from public internet searches took a few minutes?

People are supposed to believe that? What an utter crock.
Its clearly a lie, an organized lie.


Isn't it more believable they instantly knew what happened, and then just got the hell out of there, and played blind, deaf, and dumb?

Or maybe its far worse than that?
What type of seminar "exercises" were being conducted?
Possibly involving confronting a fear of dying a homeless, a fear of heights, or fear of suicide, or a "confronting death game"?
Was someone commanded to "face their ultimate fear", or worse?

Someone is going to speak up, even just to save their own skin.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/2009 11:10PM by The Anticult.

According to the news report above...

__________QUOTE_________________
[www.nypost.com]
* A May 2005 event at Disney World, where a New Jersey woman shattered her hand after Ray allegedly bullied her into performing a ritualistic board-breaking exercise.
In the Disney World incident, a 2005 negligence lawsuit charged a "reckless" Ray pushed seminar attendee Diane Konopka to smash the board to "overcome . . . self-esteem issues."
Repeatedly unsuccessful, the "humiliated" and "extremely exhausted" Konopka felt "she had no choice" but to do what Ray demanded, the suit says.
____________UNQUOTE___________________


Some people's ultimate fear is ending up as a "homeless bag lady" and dying a horrible death.
These types of LGAT seminars deliberately try to find those extreme fear "buttons" and then push those buttons repeatedly. On top of this, people are purposely severely sleep deprived, food deprived, water deprived, and relentlessly pushed to their psychological, emotional and physical brink, to literally break them down.

When in that delirious, exhausted and disordered state of mind, a vulnerable person who is too trusting of the "leader" can easily be pushed to do self-harm, as seen in the report above.
The power the leader exercises over the follower becomes intoxicating for the leader, as has been seen in the Godlike-complex the most arrogant and narcissistic seminar gurus take on.

How it works is the Guru elicits the person's "ultimate fear in life" which could be ending up as a homeless bag lady, which many people fear more than death.
A vulnerable person in an extremely exhausted state, could then be put through a supposed seminar "exercise" or game, of confronting their most extreme fear, acting "As If" it has happened, and then pushed beyond.
As in, what would you do then? What if you did end up a homeless bag lady?
They push the person to act "as if" its already happened in the present moment. They push and push and push, until the person is in tears, crying, broken down, humiliated.
Then perhaps in that moment of extreme exhaustion, food deprivation, sleep deprivation, the person says if that really happened, they would "end it all".

In a reckless "seminar" gone over the edge, the person would then be pushed even far beyond that, and challenged, humiliated and even mocked to "do it".
They would put them in the ACTUAL situation, called "in vivo" where the person is taken right to the place they fear it would happen. (which is from behavior therapy, but of course that technique is being horribly abused in the seminar).
They try to push people right to the literal "edge", supposedly thinking they will get to the edge, and then turn back, and have some sort of catharsis.

But what if a reckless seminar guru with a God-complex, pushed them far past the edge emotionally and psychologically, and told them to "do it", or commanded them to "die" in some type of extreme seminar "game", and in a few seconds of delusion from being so exhausted, they did it?

What then?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/20/2009 12:10AM by The Anticult.

There is a post here about another LGAT seminar system called the Mankind Project, which also uses a so-called sweat-lodge.
An ex-MKP Warrior reports: [forum.culteducation.com]


Looks like both of these groups are deliberately using plastic covering on the lodge. (its not a real sweat lodge of course, it should be called a brainwashing tent.)

Obviously that plastic would be put on the structure intentionally, to create some level of "asphyxia" and hypoxia which then can produce that head-rush and "high".

There are teenagers these days that do something called a "choking game" [en.wikipedia.org] to get high.
And of course there is the deadly "Erotic asphyxiation" [en.wikipedia.org]

These LGAT seminar leaders would choose to use oxygen deprivation to create some euphoria in the people taking the workshop.
Yet another in a long line of tactics, along with sleep deprivation, and food/water deprivation.
Oxygen deprivation.

The causes of death will be released at some point, and perhaps that will shed some light on this.

Of course, one should never enter a overheated structure like that with a plastic or dense covering without proper ventilation. Its not only potentially lethal, it could cause organ damage and brain damage.

I've watched your coverage very closely, and I really felt good seeing that the Post picked up the information you've researched. Great job.

And he isn't slowing down either.

"Ray reportedly refused to speak to YCSO detectives about the incident and left the state.

He has continued to host seminars mainly in Southern California and still offers reservations for his next Spiritual Warrior retreat scheduled in Sedona from Sept. 18 to 23, 2010.

The Web site for Ray’s Spiritual Warrior program reads, “There is no sacrifice — only greater and more magnificent results, wealth, adventure and fulfillment. You owe it to the rest of your life to get to Spiritual Warrior as quickly as you can. The investment is only $9,695 per person.”

[bit.ly]

_____________________________
[www.cbsnews.com]
Sweat Lodge Victims "Definitely Murdered"

Family Members of Sweat Lodge Victim Say Guru was Playing "Dangerous and Trying Physical Games"

(CBS) Two weeks ago, around 60 people sat in a packed sweat lodge in Arizona when tragedy struck.

The participants were on a so-called spiritual retreat organized by self-help guru James Arthur Ray. Each had paid $9,000 to attend.

However, something went wrong in the sweat lodge, leaving three people dead.

Relatives of Kirby Brown, who lost her life on the retreat, spoke out on "The Early Show" about the sweat lodge and Ray's alleged involvement in the tragedy.

Robert Brown, Kirby's brother, said his sister didn't know what she was getting herself into.

"I think that she went there with all the right ideas and purposes in mind to better her life, to better herself. She had big plans," he said.

And while Kirby had attended Ray's seminars previously, Robert said, they were in classroom-like settings for information and networking -- not the physical kind of retreat she attended this time.

Tom McFeeley, her cousin and family spokesperson, said something went "horribly wrong" in the sweat lodge.

McFeeley said, "We've talked to many people in the lodge. And what we found out is that it was a very confusing scene because people were passing out and coming to. There were a lot of people who wanted to leave the tent, wanted to leave the lodge, but when people could leave was controlled by James Ray."

Ray, McFeeley said, was at the door.

"You could you only leave after each session, this was about 15 minutes, and he controlled when the session was over and how long that door stayed open, so we believe there were very dangerous decisions made by him about when people were allowed to exit, re-enter to help other people out," McFeeley said. "We have very serious concerns about those questions."

McFeeley added that Ray was inadequate to do the things he did on the retreat.

"I think when you see someone who writes books and has CDs and has been on 'Oprah,' I think you make an assumption about their qualifications," he said.

McFeeley said he believes three people who died in the sweat lodge were "definitely murdered."

"There's no question they were murdered," he said. "We think it's lucky that 52 other people survived. What they did to them through sleep deprivation and a 36 hour fast, and they came off the fast with a breakfast buffet like it was the Holiday Inn. This is not the way do you these physical things."

McFeeley said Ray was playing "very dangerous and trying physical games."

"He was literally putting people's lives at risk and he should have seen signs," McFeeley said. "There were other people who got sick at other events in previous years."

Robert saud remembering his sister and never having this happen again is what's on his mind now.

"I want people to know my sister, you know, the truly beautiful, inspirational, unbelievable woman that she was. She was everybody's best friend," Robert said. " ... Nobody should be going through what we're going through right now. She was taken from us. I want her back."

However, though his family knows Kirby isn't coming back, he said, they're hoping now that the other victims get the professional counseling they need to get through this "traumatic experience."
_____________________

Oh, wow. This article about Narcissistic Personality Disorder in spiritual gurus could have been written about the man, himself:
[ezinearticles.com].


I also posted over in saltydroid.info. He's got good stuff on this egomaniac.