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Having exhausted my little store of cheap shots... I find myself considering the 'co-respondent' in the case: Merzel disrobes, retreats into his BigMind enterprise-- what's next for the erstwhile 'Dharma heir'? Is she busted back to private?

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I also appreciate Genpo in some guises, such as as the author of the very nice book "The Eye Never Sleeps". I have heard him in person and in recordings, and know that he can be an effective teacher in some ways.

Nor do I particularly fault anyone for having an affair or three. That is a matter between consenting grown-ups in the twenty-first century, even Buddhist adults, to handle in their own lives.

On the other hand, a Teacher of the Precepts who de facto destroys a couple of Sangha (there was another 'Kanzeon Zen Center' in Bar Harbour Maine before this one ... now defunct), and a couple of marriages, within a period of a few years of each other in a series of affairs with students and Dharma Heirs ... perhaps a different story.

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IMO The really harmful feature of this situation is the secrecy of it all. And the favoritism implied in singling out one student to be the teacher's consort.

Secrecy and favoritism (even when the favoritism doesnt become sexualized) both introduce deceit and tension that will undermine the trust and spiriutal practice of every person in the community. A teacher who really and truly grasps the big picture would care deeply enough about the welfare of all students that he or she would never be willing to take such risks, no matter what the temptation.

First, keeping an affair secret between teacher and student takes a tremendous amount of energy.

Even if the teacher's wife has consented, its always worth asking

1) Did she really give free consent, or was she bullied into it?

2) Is the teacher's wife hoping to preserve her marriage by colluding in her husband's extra marital affairs?

Either way, this is a grievous lack of integrity for even ordinary persons--let alone those whose authority is based on being 'enlightened.'

Finally, all three persons in this triangle--the married couple and the student--have been living a lie and keeping a corrosive secret from the rest of the sangha.

It is worth giving some though to the sheer effort it takes to hold in your emotional energy, control your eyes, and contrict and guard your your body language when you're in a state of erotic arousal and your secret beloved is sitting in the midst of the sangha.


All the effort used to control one's body and one's nonverbal behavior to conceal a spiritually adulerous affair is energy that no longer available for spiritual practice.

Your inner life may feel very lively and intense due to the erotic charge, and the charge may be intensified by the secrecy, which may generate very confincing 'spiritual' feelings, but these feelings are misleading.

Long term, at a deeper level, anyone who lives this way will suffer diminishment of their inner life. It is a wounding that is very difficult to identify and remedy.

And, we must consider the pround impact on the community.

A sangha is based on profound trust, rooted in a dimension that is supposed to be greater than any one personality.

Before a secret is revealed, members of a sangha may sense some turbulence in the atmosphere and be distracted from it. Thier spiritual practice may suffer and in the absence of validating information, they may blame themselves for thier lack of progress, when in fact the teacher's secret betryals are generating nonverbal anxiety or stimulating distracting lust throughout the sangha.

When the sangha members find that a secret has been kept from them, there is going to be vast betrayal and that in turn will be wounding to everyone's spiritual practice.

This will call into question whether the teachings are worth their effort since
'being enlightened' did not prevent thier teacher, the teacher's spouse and a student from living a lie for so long a time.

Finally, there can be a serious hazard for a young practitioner who is singled out as a teacher's consort.

The intensity of such a bond can interfere with that young person's process of erotic and psychological self development and can make it difficult to find satisfaction in ordinary relationships with partners who are not special, merely human and who cannot offer the intensity and glamor of guru-sex.

It may be that life as a guru can end in a blind alley of intensity and loneliness. An aging guru may fear death and physical debilitation and this may trigger sudden upsurges in loneliness and sexual yearning--urgings that an enlightened being is not supposed to have. Rather than consciously admit this, the suffering guru may unconscious act out--and find a tempting array of young admirers on hand.

Students see the guru as special, they relate to that guru's public image, are trained to relate only to that guru's public image. They relate to that guru's charisma, to his or her maks, but never to the guru as a human being.

Thus the human portion of the guru may come to feel starved while his or her public persona becomes more and more bloated and top heavy from adultation.


This causes an exhausting split between the neglected, emotionally starved true self within the guru, versus the over fed public persona.

Eventually the person may break down in various patterns of greed, in an effort to find nurture--some may over eat, others may crave money, even if already wealthy, and still others may seek erotic adventure, despite being married.

That's the problem with the enlightenment myth--it puts the enlightened one on a fictitious pedestal and isolates them, putting them at risk of emotional starvation--especially if they become gurus.

A guru in this predicament is trapped. Most gurus socialize only with other gurus who may be potential competitors as well as friends.

How can can a suffering guru admit to needing help and seeking psychotherapy? That's the booby prize of becoming special--you're so special you're ashamed to face that you need help and a gurus life is so extreme that few therapists may be equipped to help.

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I left Genpo's sangha in early 2010, after having practiced there for 3 years. I had a gnawing intuition that something was wrong and it was affecting my practice negatively. There was no structure in place to question anything. I know that this was my crap, but humans live in time and space and ethics are important to me.

Genpo can be a great teacher, but his teachings seem to be swimming in a sea of big money, sex, and power. The dust is still settling on all of this, but at this point Genpo appears to have succeeded in isolating himself even further from scrutiny.

I'm truly sorry for the suffering he and his family are clearly experiencing right now.

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I'll tell you what is unforgivable to me, and what I find myself unable to forgive Genpo for: co-opting the term 'big mind' and trade marking it, a marketing ploy for his 'intellectual property.'

Because to my way of thinking anything big mind, really big mind, would be as free to offer to others as the thoughts which freely came into his head. To take this buddhist term and make it his own, his very own, is as wrong as anything gets, as far as I can see.

Furthermore, to promote the notion that the experience of enlightenment can be had quickly (by lunchtime at a conference) without having to go through 'years of training' is a disservice to the zen buddhism I have been exposed to.

It makes it an experiential thrill for a thrill seeker: it adds to 'seeker's disease;' the insatiability of desire.

The marrow of my bones curdled at first sight, and I am revulsed every time I see that little "tm" after the word.

Hell,Bodhidharma didn't trademark "Big Wall!"

How can he (Genpo) recite all the names, male and female, of ancesters/patriarchs without recognizing those carrying this practice forward to this day did so without profit motive. (At least this is my strongest sense of this-- the sun doesn't trade mark 'BIG RAY' and charge to deliver it...)

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"Postby disastermouse on Sat Feb 12, 2011 8:54 pm

It's not 'their' dharma - it's 'the Dharma'. They don't get to make it up according to their taste any more than I do.

This is not the place for me.
User avatar
disastermouse
"

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Hello Brad,

Just wanted to say its nice to read your stuff and it was nice to read about opposing opinions on the issues of Big Mind™, whether it is right or wrong.

I have experienced Big Mind™ on two occasions, once in a small setting with close friends, and I must admit I enjoyed it and I agree I did have a wow kind of experience, experienced some trippy stuff, you could say experienced oneness of some sort.

My second time was on the island of Ameland and this time with Genpo Roshi on a nine-day retreat. Zen in the morning and Big Mind™ in the afternoon.

Overall I had an unpleasant and at times quite frightening experience and I have been trying to get to grips with it since.

The main issues were what I believed to be repressed sexual abuse, as there is a history of abuse running through our family, and also a running theme of confusion over sexual identity.

When I was unable to deal with what was coming up for me (this included thinking I was the voice of the devil or emptiness unowned) I asked to speak to a zen teacher I know. He suggested I speak to Genpo Roshi about it, not privately but in the group settings with about 250 people plus camera crew. Again I managed to do this after three days and felt it seemed right but I also think after it that I was in a state of shock.

It felt like at times that Genpo Roshi was in my head but maybe this was my delusional paranoia or another voice.

I’m not too sure what I am saying. Only that the retreat left me feeling pretty shocked, like I had taken an acid trip and very fearful of touching it again. My thoughts were wholly suicidal and I was glad to have my girlfriend and someone to talk to when I got back.

I’m left feeling very confused as if I shouldn't question Genpo, as if he knew better than me, like he said at the end of the last session, "I have you exactly where I want you." The final voice he requested was that of the voice of Vairocana Buddha. For me this felt like I was having heart palpitations. And then after a friend of mine dropped semi dead on the floor after he asked him to show him 'mu' dead. I stood and said, “I am gay.” But I didn’t mean it like that. I thought I was responding to what he wanted.

I’m not sure if you can make sense of this or offer me anything but it would be nice if there was further material on Buddhist practice and sufferers of abuse. Just wanted to know your thoughts were. Part of me thinks I should get a good therapist the other thinks fuck this shit I have had enough.

Thanks for your time

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“I don’t want to appear hateful. My overall concern with these big experience as you say is that they put the experience over and above the welfare of the individual. This seems to show little concern for what happens after. I mean shouldn’t it carry a danger warning, or have therapists on standby or a hotline to call afterwards? You are just stripped clean then sent on your way.”

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they put the experience over and above the welfare of the individual.

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Because most of these people are familiar with my work, they
are almost entirely second-tier or integrally oriented already. The most
common comment that we hear from people at the seminars is something like,
"Just being among 50 other people who are already open to integral ideas and
practice is an extraordinary experience."

If you are like most people who have an integral awareness, you probably
can't talk about this with anybody. If you are integral in this culture, you
are, in effect, in the closet. So can you imagine spending a week with 50
people who are fully open to integral ideas, and with whom you can discuss
these things without hesitation, reticence, or reluctance? Some people
report that this is the most freeing and exhilarating aspect of the entire
seminar.

I believe this is why every single teacher who we have had participate in
these events claims that these are the finest students they have ever worked
with.

If money is a problem, please sign up for our scholarship program. We are
very generous with these, and we want to do everything we can to make sure
that these types of teachings are made available to people regardless of
their income.

So what do you think? Did I completely commercialize and prostitute myself?
Oh wait -- here is one more corny thing I can throw in. Come to one of the
seminars, and if you are not completely blown away like the rest of us have
been, we will give you your money back right on the spot, no questions
asked. I'm dead serious.

Well, there you have it. And if I can drop the slightly tongue-in-cheek
attitude for a moment, the thing that has touched me the most about these
seminars is that we are building a community -- a learning community -- of
people who are integrally informed and integrally aware, and who can share
this extraordinary experience and understanding together, and then begin to
take it out into the world where all the real work needs to be done. I truly
would love for you to become a member of our community, and help us with
this extraordinary adventure.

Hope to see you soon,

Ken Wilber,

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KW: In Integral Psychology I present charts that summarize over 100 developmental psychologists, East and West, ancient and modern and postmodern. Spiral Dynamics is only one of the 100, but I have recently been using it quite a bit because it is simple and fairly easy to learn, even for beginners. Based on extensive research begun by Clare Graves, Spiral Dynamics (developed by Don Beck and Christopher Cowan) sees human beings evolving or developing through eight major waves of consciousness. For convenience, I will reprint my brief summary of these from A Theory of Everything.

SPIRAL DYNAMICS AND THE WAVES OF EXISTENCE

The first six levels are "subsistence levels" marked by "first-tier thinking." Then there occurs a revolutionary shift in consciousness: the emergence of "being levels" and "second-tier thinking," of which there are two major waves. Here is a brief description of all eight waves, the percentage of the world population at each wave, and the percentage of social power held by each.

1. Beige: Archaic-Instinctual . The level of basic survival; food, water, warmth, sex, and safety have priority. Uses habits and instincts just to survive. Distinct self is barely awakened or sustained. Forms into survival bands to perpetuate life.

Where seen: First human societies, newborn infants, senile elderly, late-stage Alzheimer's victims, mentally ill street people, starving masses, shell shock. Approximately 0.1% of the adult population, 0% power.

2. Purple: Magical-Animistic . Thinking is animistic; magical spirits, good and bad, swarm the earth leaving blessings, curses, and spells which determine events. Forms into ethnic tribes . The spirits exist in ancestors and bond the tribe. Kinship and lineage establish political links. Sounds "holistic" but is actually atomistic: "there is a name for each bend in the river but no name for the river."

Where seen: Belief in voodoo-like curses, blood oaths, ancient grudges, good luck charms, family rituals, magical ethnic beliefs and superstitions; strong in Third-World settings, gangs, athletic teams, and corporate "tribes." 10% of the population, 1% of the power.

3. Red: Power Gods . First emergence of a self distinct from the tribe; powerful, impulsive, egocentric, heroic. Magical-mythic spirits, dragons, beasts, and powerful people. Archetypal gods and goddesses, powerful beings, forces to be reckoned with, both good and bad. Feudal lords protect underlings in exchange for obedience and labor. The basis of feudal empires --power and glory. The world is a jungle full of threats and predators. Conquers, out-foxes, and dominates; enjoys self to the fullest without regret or remorse; be here now.

Where seen: The "terrible twos," rebellious youth, frontier mentalities, feudal kingdoms, epic heroes, James Bond villains, gang leaders, soldiers of fortune, New-Age narcissism, wild rock stars, Atilla the Hun, Lord of the Flies . 20% of the population, 5% of the power.

4. Blue: Mythic Order . Life has meaning, direction, and purpose, with outcomes determined by an all-powerful Other or Order. This righteous Order enforces a code of conduct based on absolutist and unvarying principles of "right" and "wrong." Violating the code or rules has severe, perhaps everlasting repercussions. Following the code yields rewards for the faithful. Basis of ancient nations . Rigid social hierarchies; paternalistic; one right way and only one right way to think about everything. Law and order; impulsivity controlled through guilt; concrete-literal and fundamentalist belief; obedience to the rule of Order; strongly conventional and conformist. Often "religious" or "mythic" [in the mythic-membership sense; Graves and Beck refer to it as the "saintly/absolutistic" level], but can be secular or atheistic Order or Mission.

Where seen: Puritan America, Confucian China, Dickensian England, Singapore discipline, totalitarianism, codes of chivalry and honor, charitable good deeds, religious fundamentalism (e.g., Christian and Islamic), Boy and Girl Scouts, "moral majority," patriotism. 40% of the population, 30% of the power.

5. Orange: Scientific Achievement . At this wave, the self "escapes" from the "herd mentality" of blue, and seeks truth and meaning in individualistic terms--hypothetico-deductive, experimental, objective, mechanistic, operational--"scientific" in the typical sense. The world is a rational and well-oiled machine with natural laws that can be learned, mastered, and manipulated for one's own purposes. Highly achievement oriented, especially (in America) toward materialistic gains. The laws of science rule politics, the economy, and human events. The world is a chess-board on which games are played as winners gain pre-eminence and perks over losers. Marketplace alliances; manipulate earth's resources for one's strategic gains. Basis of corporate states .

Where seen: The Enlightenment, Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged , Wall Street, emerging middle classes around the world, cosmetics industry, trophy hunting, colonialism, the Cold War, fashion industry, materialism, secular humanism, liberal self-interest. 30% of the population, 50% of the power.

6. Green: The Sensitive Self . Communitarian, human bonding, ecological sensitivity, networking. The human spirit must be freed from greed, dogma, and divisiveness; feelings and caring supersede cold rationality; cherishing of the earth, Gaia, life. Against hierarchy; establishes lateral bonding and linking. Permeable self, relational self, group intermeshing. Emphasis on dialogue, relationships. Basis of value communities (i.e., freely chosen affiliations based on shared sentiments). Reaches decisions through reconciliation and consensus (downside: interminable "processing" and incapacity to reach decisions). Refresh spirituality, bring harmony, enrich human potential. Strongly egalitarian, anti-hierarchy, pluralistic values, social construction of reality, diversity, multiculturalism, relativistic value systems; this worldview is often called pluralistic relativism . Subjective, nonlinear thinking; shows a greater degree of affective warmth, sensitivity, and caring, for earth and all its inhabitants.

Where seen: Deep ecology, postmodernism, Netherlands idealism, Rogerian counseling, Canadian health care, humanistic psychology, liberation theology, cooperative inquiry, World Council of Churches, Greenpeace, animal rights, ecofeminism, post-colonialism, Foucault/Derrida, politically correct, diversity movements, human rights issues, ecopsychology. 10% of the population, 15% of the power. [Note: this is 10% of the world population. Don Beck estimates that around 20-25% of the American population is green.]

With the completion of the green meme, human consciousness is poised for a quantum jump into "second-tier thinking." Clare Graves referred to this as a "momentous leap," where "a chasm of unbelievable depth of meaning is crossed." In essence, with second-tier consciousness, one can think both vertically and horizontally, using both hierarchies and heterarchies (both ranking and linking). One can therefore, for the first time, vividly grasp the entire spectrum of interior development , and thus see that each level, each meme, each wave is crucially important for the health of the overall Spiral.

As I would word it, each wave is "transcend and include." That is, each wave goes beyond (or transcends) its predecessor, and yet it includes or embraces it in its own makeup. For example, a cell transcends but includes molecules, which transcend but include atoms. To say that a molecule goes beyond an atom is not to say that molecules hate atoms, but that they love them: they embrace them in their own makeup; they include them, they don't marginalize them. Just so, each wave of existence is a fundamental ingredient of all subsequent waves, and thus each is to be cherished and embraced.

Moreover, each wave can itself be activated or reactivated as life circumstances warrant. In emergency situations, we can activate red power drives; in response to chaos, we might need to activate blue order; in looking for a new job, we might need orange achievement drives; in marriage and with friends, close green bonding. All of these memes have something important to contribute.

But what none of the first-tier memes can do, on their own, is fully appreciate the existence of the other memes. Each of the first-tier memes thinks that its worldview is the correct or best perspective. It reacts negatively if challenged; it lashes out, using its own tools, whenever it is threatened. Blue order is very uncomfortable with both red impulsiveness and orange individualism. Orange individualism thinks blue order is for suckers and green egalitarianism is weak and woo-woo. Green egalitarianism cannot easily abide excellence and value rankings, big pictures, hierarchies, or anything that appears authoritarian, and thus green reacts strongly to blue, orange, and anything post-green.

All of that begins to change with second-tier thinking. Because second-tier consciousness is fully aware of the interior stages of development--even if it cannot articulate them in a technical fashion--it steps back and grasps the big picture, and thus second-tier thinking appreciates the necessary role that all of the various memes play . Second-tier awareness thinks in terms of the overall spiral of existence, and not merely in the terms of any one level.

Where the green meme begins to grasp the numerous different systems and pluralistic contexts that exist in different cultures (which is why it is indeed the sensitive self, i.e., sensitive to the marginalization of others), second-tier thinking goes one step further. It looks for the rich contexts that link and join these pluralistic systems, and thus it takes these separate systems and begins to embrace, include, and integrate them into holistic spirals and integral meshworks. Second-tier thinking, in other words, is instrumental in moving from relativism to holism, or from pluralism to integralism .

The extensive research of Graves, Beck, and Cowan indicates that there are at least two major waves to this second-tier integral consciousness:

7. Yellow: Integrative . Life is a kaleidoscope of natural hierarchies [holarchies], systems, and forms. Flexibility, spontaneity, and functionality have the highest priority. Differences and pluralities can be integrated into interdependent, natural flows. Egalitarianism is complemented with natural degrees of ranking and excellence. Knowledge and competency should supersede power, status, or group sensitivity. The prevailing world order is the result of the existence of different levels of reality (memes) and the inevitable patterns of movement up and down the dynamic spiral. Good governance facilitates the emergence of entities through the levels of increasing complexity (nested hierarchy). 1% of the population, 5% of the power.

8. Turquoise: Holistic . Universal holistic system, holons/waves of integrative energies; unites feeling with knowledge; multiple levels interwoven into one conscious system. Universal order, but in a living, conscious fashion, not based on external rules (blue) or group bonds (green). A "grand unification" [a "theory of everything" or T.O.E.] is possible, in theory and in actuality. Sometimes involves the emergence of a new spirituality as a meshwork of all existence. Turquoise thinking uses the entire Spiral; sees multiple levels of interaction; detects harmonics, the mystical forces, and the pervasive flow-states that permeate any organization. 0.1% of the population, 1% of the power.

With less than 2 percent of the population at second-tier thinking (and only 0.1 percent at turquoise), second-tier consciousness is relatively rare because it is now the "leading-edge" of collective human evolution. As examples, Beck and Cowan mention items that include Teilhard de Chardin's noosphere, chaos and complexity theories, universal systems thinking, integral-holistic theories, Gandhi's and Mandela's pluralistic integration, with increases in frequency definitely on the way, and even higher memes still in the offing....

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Dealing with two or more parts with an assumption they are in conflict is an entirely different approach and equally effective.

I have read Roy's history of his approach with great interest and wondered at what point does the 'Parts' model of Tebbetts cross over with the Parts model of NLPers. I appreciate such labels are rather broad. I am just trying to find any common origin.

In this article you mention Charles studied Fritz Perls.
[www.royhunter.com]

Did the concept of parts he pioneered originate with Fritz Perls? Was Tebbetts already integrating ideomotor communication at that point (mid eighties)?

Thanks

Best regards,

(name omitted)

www.headhacking.com

Tags: anthony, hacking, head, hypnosis, jacquin, nlp, parts, therapy

► Reply to This

Replies to This Discussion
Permalink Reply by D R on June 19, 2010 at 2:13pm
I am not familiar with the complete training of these individuals however it is likely that they have an understanding of the fundamental NLP principles.

BTW, his name is spelled: Charles Tebbetts
► Reply
Permalink Reply by SI on June 21, 2010 at 7:26am
:) Thanks! It was early. I realized after I sent it.


DRl said:
I am not familiar with the complete training of these individuals however it is likely that they have an understanding of the fundamental NLP principles.

BTW, his name is spelled: Charles Tebbetts
► Reply
Permalink Reply by RH on June 23, 2010 at 11:18am
Hello everyone,

I've been offline from Hypnothoughts for several days, and am pleased to see such a lively discussion on the origins of parts therapy. For the record, I learned it from Charles Tebbetts personally in 1983.

Tebbetts originally pioneered it based on the work of Paul Federn (after reading about his work in the 1950's), and evolved it over a number of years. Originally he referred to the parts as "ego parts" and then he himself shortened it to "parts" at the time I was taught. Tebbetts also taught Gestalt, because the client role plays each part just as he/she might role play another person during regression therapy. He once showed us a b/w video of Fritz Perls sitting in a circle of clients doing Gestalt with each of them...while he smoked on a pipe and blew smoke in their faces!

Contemporary with the development of parts therapy, John and Helen Watkins pioneered ego state therapy, which was also based on the work of Federn.

Other variations came later, and I believe that most (if not all) are spin-offs of either parts therapy or ego state therapy. My text, HYPNOSIS FOR INNER CONFLICT RESOLUTION: INTRODUCING PARTS THERAPY has a chapter that discusses the variations, including voice dialogue (an NLP version).

Also (for the record), SI attended both my parts therapy training AND my first "Train the Parts Therapy Trainer" workshop...so she has invested considerable time mastering parts therapy.

RH
Permalink Reply by KCe-NLPTrainingQuest.com on November 29, 2010 at 1:33am
Hi everyone,

I just stumbled onto this older post and would love to add a bit of insight to it.

First off, S---n, I'm not certain who you trained with in NLP, but if they taught you to do Parts Work in just a couple of minutes all I can say is Wow... they did not teach you very well. At least when it comes to Parts Work. I personally dedicate about 2 and a half DAYS to it in Practitioner and continue with it further in Master Practitioner. Here's a video of me working with a student using a great deal of Parts Work and you'll see it's pretty in depth: [www.hypnothoughts.com]

Now, of course Roy is the master when it comes to Parts Therapy via Charles Tebbetts and has "second hand knowledge" as to the history of "Parts Therapy", where as my knowledge of "Parts Work" is more "3rd and 4th hand knowledge", so I will simply refer to the history as I know it as... "As legend has it..."

That said, "Parts Work" (as it's usually referred to in NLP) was first utilized in NLP by Richard Bandler & John Grinder who learned about it from Virginia Satir (Who made infamous what's called a "Parts Party").

Now, who Virginia learned about Parts Work from, and whether or not it was Charles Tebbetts - or possibly Charles Tebbetts learned about it from her, is unknown to me and to most others as well.

While there is much recorded history regarding Virginia and her form of Parts Work, there unfortunately simply is not very much recorded history regarding Charles and his form of Parts Therapy- but they are very similiar.

That said, Parts Work (again speaking in the realm of NLP, but with much respect towards Parts Therapy) was later taken to entirely different realms with techniques including, but not limited to Core Transformation created by Connirae and Tammara Andreas. **Definitely not a process that only takes a couple of minutes... We're talking a minimum of 45 minutes...

And of course R has done an incredible job at continuing to take Charles Tabbetts work in Parts Therapy to greater realms as well.

So... which came first, the chicken or the egg? I'm not sure, but what I do know is that the understanding and use of 'Subconscious Parts Conflicts' and the 'Communication and Integration' of 'Subconscious Parts' crossed over into NLP mainly from the work of Virginia Satir - and I believe some from Fritz Pearls as well (although I do not believe he approached 'Parts Work' in nearly the same way that NLP uses it today.

Hope that sheds some light on this mystery...

-Kevin
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Permalink Reply by DR on November 29, 2010 at 3:30am
Paul Federn (October 13, 1871 - May 4, 1950)
In the late 1920s, Federn published important books such as "Some Variations in Ego-Feeling" and "Narcissism in the Structure of the Ego". In his works he elucidated upon the concepts of "ego states", "ego limits", "ego cathexis" and the median nature of narcissism.

Source
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Permalink Reply by J on November 29, 2010 at 5:17am
I'd worked with parts and subpersonalities long before knowing about NLP or parts therapy in hypnosis (albeit I'm relatively new to to hypnosis/NLP). Probably the most notable body of work in this area is by Hal and Sidra Stone who created Voice Dialogue "The Psychology of the Selves" in the early 70's. [delos-inc.com]

Although their methods involve longer therapeutic processes, the insights they've gathered as to the psychology of the parts has been invaluable to me personally and I think very much lends itself to application in hypnotherapy and NLP. A contemporary offshoot of Voice Dialog is Genpo Roshi's "Big Mind" process - "a combination of Eastern non-dual wisdom and Western psychological understanding to transmit the essence of Zen in a way that is readily accessible and relevant to the modern day seeker" [www.bigmind.org]

In addition to that, many spiritual teachings (including channeled works) that could be categorized as "spiritual psychology" incorporate processes with subpersonalities. I don't think it's anything that original - any self-aware individual can sense that they are a composite of many different viewpoints and "parts". If anything our cultures condition us away from noticing this - lest we be labeled as schizophrenic.
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Permalink Reply by AJ on November 29, 2010 at 5:54am
Thanks for all the info.

I guess the main split I am looking for is between

a) working with two parts in conflict a la Hunter
b) working with one part, one intention a la NLP

Thanks again.

A
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Permalink Reply by Kevin Cole-NLPTrainingQuest.com on November 29, 2010 at 10:32am
--There is no working with *just one Part* "ala NLP". Here's one of many links discussing her work and a bit more of the history behind Parts Work in NLP and other modalities as well. That said, it unfortunately does not mention Charles Tebbetts, which I think is a shame : [www.transformations.net.nz]...

Again, Virginia worked with one part, two parts, and many parts "ala Parts Party" and that's where NLP first utlized Parts Work and it has expanded from there.

That said, there isn't always a "Parts Conflict" with clients, especially when you "chunk up" to a specific parts highest intention first.

Hope that clarifies things...

-Kevin





Anthony Jacquin said:
Thanks for all the info.

I guess the main split I am looking for is between

a) working with two parts in conflict a la Hunter
b) working with one part, one intention a la NLP

Thanks again.

Anthony
► Reply
Permalink Reply by Anthony Jacquin on November 29, 2010 at 10:49am
Let me clarify Kevin, as 'a la NLP' is a little broad.

I am referring to dealing with one part with an intention - the kind of language used in a six step reframe, outlined in Frogs into Princes and the original Tranceformations.

Thanks for the link.

Anthony




Kevin Cole-NLPTrainingQuest.com said:
--There is no working with *just one Part* "ala NLP". Here's one of many links discussing her work and a bit more of the history behind Parts Work in NLP and other modalities as well. That said, it unfortunately does not mention Charles Tebbetts, which I think is a shame : [www.transformations.net.nz]...

Again, Virginia worked with one part, two parts, and many parts "ala Parts Party" and that's where NLP first utlized Parts Work and it has expanded from there.

That said, there isn't always a "Parts Conflict" with clients, especially when you "chunk up" to a specific parts highest intention first.

Hope that clarifies things...

-Kevin





Anthony Jacquin said:
Thanks for all the info.

I guess the main split I am looking for is between

a) working with two parts in conflict a la Hunter
b) working with one part, one intention a la NLP

Thanks again.

Anthony
► Reply
Permalink Reply by Kevin Cole-NLPTrainingQuest.com on November 29, 2010 at 11:21am
Gotcha... I'm not sure if you're familiar with what's called "The Visual Squash" (And I can't remember if it's in Frogs into Princes or Trance-Formations), but it involves somewhat of a different language than a process like 6 Step Re-framing...

And of course, I "think" it was Connirae Andreas that originally thought to "chunk up" to a specific parts highest intention- which keeps the parts 'conflicts' down to a minimum- and I always emphasize the value in that. **Again, I only "think" it was Connirae that first started "chunking up" when it comes to working with parts. I could be mistaken. In addition, it's a good idea to realize that working with parts- in any form- is much more of an art, than a specific technique, hence why -imo- it should definitely be taught over a period of at least a couple of days.

That said, I want to continue to respect the fact that this is Roy Hunter's discussion group on Parts Therapy and he is the true master of that arena. I'm simply sharing my experiences from the world of Parts Work in the NLP arena, since the question was brought up...

Thanks Roy, for allowing me to comment and I hope my distinctions between the two are clear...

-Kevin



Anthony Jacquin said:
Let me clarify Kevin, as 'a la NLP' is a little broad.

I am referring to dealing with one part with an intention - the kind of language used in a six step reframe, outlined in Frogs into Princes and the original Tranceformations.

Thanks for the link.

Anthony




Kevin Cole-NLPTrainingQuest.com said:
--There is no working with *just one Part* "ala NLP". Here's one of many links discussing her work and a bit more of the history behind Parts Work in NLP and other modalities as well. That said, it unfortunately does not mention Charles Tebbetts, which I think is a shame : [www.transformations.net.nz]...

Again, Virginia worked with one part, two parts, and many parts "ala Parts Party" and that's where NLP first utlized Parts Work and it has expanded from there.

That said, there isn't always a "Parts Conflict" with clients, especially when you "chunk up" to a specific parts highest intention first.

Hope that clarifies things...

-K

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AJ said:
Thanks for all the info.

I guess the main split I am looking for is between

a) working with two parts in conflict a la Hunter
b) working with one part, one intention a la NLP

Thanks again.