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NATLFED a/k/a National Labor Federation
Posted by: Mary Struggler ()
Date: July 25, 2009 12:34PM

There is a lot of information about this group, of which I was a member for sixteen years. Some of the blogs have been described as toxic or venomous. It is my hope to educate people about my experiences in this Organization. I worked primarily with Eastern Farm Workers Association as well as directly out of National Office Central (NOC). If you are interested in establishing a dialog, let me know.

Mary Struggler

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Re: NATLFED a/k/a National Labor Federation
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: July 26, 2009 12:08AM

I can pass on some information as a contribution to the dialogue. The real contribution is whether persons who have been inside will feel able to come visit.

Information is always welcome. Any attempt at bullying and shaming is not.


If you want to understand the impact of living long term in a political cult, get and read
Janja Lalitch's book, Bounded Choice. She was in such an organization in the Twin Cities, Minnesota, though her group may have been a different entity than NATELFED

NATELFED definitely has money. One of their front groups is in San Francisco and called Physician's Organizing Committee. A friend told me two of them came into her gym and left brochures trying to get the gym owner to sponsor them.

She was intrigued that the brochure gave no website.

They get sponsorships from MDs and businesses to make themselves look good, but the manpower comes by massively guilt tripping youngsters into derailing their lives and overworking to support POC, and by extension, NATELFED

They do a bit of good cause work for the poor, but the bulk of the money goes to support a secretive leadership. They have enough moola that their offices in San Francisco are at the 450 Sutter medical building—an expensive, Art Deco building that is an architectural landmark and which houses prestige medical and dental practices and every expensive to rent in.

A Google search turned up this information:



Physician's Organizing Committee
based on 7 reviews Rating Details »
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Neighborhoods: Nob Hill, Union Square
450 Sutter St
San Francisco, CA 94199

(415) 434-9335
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7 reviews for Physician's Organizing Committee
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Sri L.

Berkeley, CA
The interactions I've had with this group have so far indicated that they are responsible, trustworthy defenders of high quality, accessible health care for the public.

They are working their tails off to make large corporate institutions such as Sutter Health (who owns many of the local hospitals) accountable for their dubious behaviors, namely shutting down the free psych ward (as if SF needs more whackos on the street), shutting down neonatal intensive care, shutting down free charitable osteopathic care and med student training programs.

The bottom line is that the hospital is acting like a for-profit institution while taking insane amounts of tax cuts (THAT's OUR MONEY) due to their nonprofit status. P.O.C. is simply trying to notify the community and public officials.

They are acting in our best interest, on our behalf and they are doing it for free. I don't get how some people see this as a one star institution. I'd like to give ten.

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Matt R.

San Diego, CA
I volunteered for Physician's Organizing Commitee, doing a tabling operation to get people interested in saving St. Luke's hospital. I also took one of their classes. The class detailed problems with the current economic system in a
very biased and in a cartoonishly inaccurate manner. This made me realize that they weren't interested in saving St. Luke's hospital as much as they wanted to get other people to
join their larger cause.

Based on my experiences and interactions with the group I determined that POC is somewhere near the intersection of wingnut and nutjob.

The group purports to be a non profit group that is fighting on the behalf of doctors, patients and the indigent. It is true that the group is able to get some doctors to volunteer services for people that are unable to pay or have a problem with their insurance company. However this is not the main purpose of the group. The core members of POC or cadre as they refer to themselves are in fact part of clandestine communist organization known as the National Labor Federation(NATLFED).


NATLFED was formed in the 1970s, in 1996 the leader and founder of NATLFED died. An article was written in the New York Times. A leader dead, a fringe group lives on


The members of the group do not do anything violent or illegal. The core members "cadre" function more like a cult. They work about 14 hours a day "organizing" to change the system. For POC most of the time goes to tabling, picking up donated supplies from various businesses, and filling out paperwork for their extensive and tedious bureaucracy. A lot of this is busy work intended to keep themselves busy so they don't think too much about what it means to sacrifice their personal life for their abstract cause.

Do not support this group. Please make donations to other charity or nonprofit groups. Almost everybody donates to this group without having a real idea of the group's objectives.

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Gray T.

Oakland, CA
Unlike most people who wrote a review already. I was a cadre to POC and to the larger organization POC interior cadre belonged to. While their strategy and goals are correct, their actual implementation is pathetic. They spend so much time writing reports and reports, especially on people they're trying to recruit and having secret unit (cell) meetings, among other meaningless tactics. Whether casual volunteers see it or not POC cadre are abusive to new interior cadre once one joins. Oh and they're also abusive to interior cadre that work in other similar organizations.
Of course this is a CULT and believe me, if you want to do advocacy, stop hospitals from being closed and recruit doctors to see those who can't afford it, go someplace else and stay away from these crazy people.

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Christine S.

San Francisco, CA
A front for a political cult. End of story.

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Sohail H.

Oakland, CA
I researched Physicians Organizing Committee after I started volunteering with them, about 6 months ago. Though much of what was written was discouraging, I saw that there is a SERIOUS disconnect between the negative things that are written about the organization and the POSITIVE things that I experience as a volunteer.

One of the people commenting below has never been in before, but has read about something we supposedly did. I am not entirely sure how you can judge our organization when you have no previous experience with us, and, moreover, base this analysis on some stuff you read on a website once. The one guy commenting below, who only came in once, has no perspective with which to judge the organization. We have volunteers coming in 7 days a week working on benefit cases and our office is constantly flooded with calls from doctors whom our medical advocates are working with. Right now we're working with doctors to stop the shut down of San Leandro Hospital in addition to fighting the continued cuts at St. Luke's Hospital while working with doctors struggling to treat Medicare patients, and the list goes on.

There are things written about the organization that are true and factual. Volunteers do work long hours. This, however, is conditional on the amount of time they are actually able to provide. We are all volunteers. It would be easy for you to understand why we work long hours when you see how much work is involved in making change happen. There is indeed an obvious interest among those in POC to find full time organizers, or cadre, and this is no secret. I am not entirely sure what the problem with this is, since unions and other such organizations have full time organizers as well. The only real difference is that their organizers are salaried, while ours are completely volunteer. I also resent the fact that some people would assume a person would be so easily duped into spending their precious time working for a cause that has no end. Show me another way to wrest control of patient care away from profit-motivated interests. Trust me, I've looked. Most of these organizations are reformist at best, trying to patch-up the broken medical system that we have today, rather than working to build the basis for a new one, one predicated on the Hippocratic philosophy of "...I will prescribe regimens for the good of my patients ... and do no harm to anyone...." The system we see today is one that is predicated on the philosophy of the bottom line, generating a return for monied investors.

How these things make us a "cult" is beyond my ability to comprehend. Moreover, any person who studied the labor movement for more than ten minutes would realize these types of accusations have been levied against every successful labor movement since the dawn of labor movements. The success of these lies and deceit are completely predicated on the willful ignorance of the individuals they are manufactured to fool. In the 1870's to 80's, Franklin B. Gowen, president of the Philadelphia and Reading Railroad, tried the same thing in his manufacture of the 'Molly Maguires' in order to demonize the organizing forces of coal miners - people striking for their safety and for the sustenance of their families. Overnight these men were turned from workers striking for a safe place to work and time to spend with their families into "...a secret Irish terroristic organization whose end was the destruction of society...." The mainstream media of the day took up this line, and the public believed it without dissent. Nineteen innocent men were hung for it.

Defending patients' right to care, fighting for doctors being singled out for standing up for their patients, teaching them how to organize and saving hospitals are all no easy feats. No, that's not all we do. Yes, there is a lot of other work involved. No, we don't always succeed. But I challenge you to find something better. Find anything that has worked better in the past 70 years to make lasting change in protecting the rights of patients against run-away profiteering that hasn't already been undermined and eliminated by government agencies or big-business interests. I'll join up. Until then, I'm going to stick to the only winning plan that we have. There are those of you who would choose not to work with us because you have obligations, other priorities, or feel that this work is just too damn hard. I understand, I can't and won't hold that against you.

But, for those of you willing to spend a few hours to find out what all the hub-bub is about, call us to set up an orientation and stay to work on a case, or do patient advocacy with a doctor, or go to a public hearing to fight healthcare cuts. No previous experience is required, but a desire to work for what you believe in is a must.

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lucifer c.

San Francisco, CA
I just read in disgust on an e-mail list I belong to that these jerks from the Physicians Organizing Committee came to the Castro this weekend to set up a table at 18th and Castro to promote their organization. The location is traditionally a spot for the recently deceased to be honored with flowers and loving messages. Usually the recently departed are people important to the neighborhood and community. But Friday, the Physicians Organizing Committee set up their table ON TOP of the spontaneous Del Martin shrine!! They became belligerent and rude when informed of their sacrilege claiming it was a "public space" and they discouraged mourners from placing flowers there! They obvious don't deserve respect if they refuse to show respect! What losers!

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michelle g.

San Francisco, CA
Every Friday we have left over food at the restaurant, and every Friday, we give some of this food to POC.

It's a ritual: They call, we chat, they send someone down for the food, they update me about their current battles, they invite me to dinner, I usually decline.

POC does not have a website, but they do have a mission. If I could synthesize their stance, it would be something like "they seek to organize doctors and members of the community at large to caretake the medical community's ethical core". Those are my quotes and my synthesis, mind you. I haven't checked with them to see how they want to be represented if at all.

I first encountered POC while they were tabling at Andronico's Park and Shop. They contacted me incessentaly but I was (sigh) not available to do the good work.

On Cinco de Mayo of last year, we got an order for a delivery of $60 or so worth of food to a doctor's office, courtesy of a pharmeceutical company. Since Cinco de Mayo is our busiest day of the year, I told them we wouldn't be able to make the delivery. The rep's reply was "Money is no object. We'll give you $100 to bring it."

To make a long story short, I acquiesed and decided to ho' for the man too, despite my supposed super ethical stance. I got off the elevator on the wrong floor and started to panic. This was our busiest day of the year. I had to get back to the restaurant. As fate would have it, right in front of me, yes like a beacon, shone POC's open door. "Help me, please! I have to deliver this overpriced food to some pharmaceutical whore's luncheon!" I cried. Ever the practiced volunteer army, they leapt to my aid. And for this, I remain forever in their debt.

POC is about as down as you can get. No payroll. No website. No non profit status. No gimmicks. No dressing up as surgeons or throwing syringes or hunger strikes. They are serious about their business and definitely don't want to be perceived as quackish. They fight the little-known battles like the St. Luke psychiatric inpatient unit closure or the filthy filthy TAX FREE $1,000,000,000 bond approved to Sutter Hospital Corporation or the Emergency Room closure at Natividad Hospital in Salinas. Boring stuff, yes, but kind of critical to a healthy society.

They pretty much rule.

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Corboy note:

Del Martin was a much beloved lesbian activist. With her wife (they were able to marry in the narrow period just before Election Day when Proposition 8 put a cruel stop to Marriage Equality in California) Del Martin was a living monument and fantastic human being. She and her wife had spent nearly half a century serving the community.

Del Martin's death meant the departure of a tribal elder. For POC to disregard all this and set its leafletting table on top of the shrine and to reportedly show belligerance when the community tried to set them right--this would indicate an appalling indifference to the 1) preferences and 2) traditions of the neighbhorhood and community that POC claimed to want to serve.

They seem more interested in themselves.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/26/2009 12:11AM by corboy.

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Re: NATLFED a/k/a National Labor Federation
Posted by: Mary Struggler ()
Date: July 26, 2009 01:06AM

Eric, the point of this post is to open up dialog for those seeking information, not just re-hash the same old stuff on the web. All that you posted sounds well and good but you left out the part about NATLFED being an umbrella Organization within the Communist Party United States of America, Provisional Wing, with an agenda to overthrow the government and establish the dictatorship of the proletariat.

Some differ as to whether or not it started as a cult. Jeff Whitnack says it was always a cult. I am trying to be very delicate because I have heard many criticisms from people seeking good information that the sites they visit are venomous as ex-cadre bicker and dicker. I do not want that here. I want people to ask questions and get information. That is perhaps why my blog is doing fairly well. Sure, not too many public comments, but several persons have asked for private e-mail communications. They always say the same thing, that such dialog is a refreshing change from what they find on the internet.

Yes, I am brutally honest. We were soldiers of the international fighting to establish the dictatorship of the proletariat dedicated to overthrowing the government of the USA. I refuse to sugar coat the hidden agenda with the veneer of the public agenda of clothing and food distributions, medical care, etc.

Mary Struggler

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Re: NATLFED a/k/a National Labor Federation
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: July 26, 2009 09:05AM

Mary Struggler:

Not everyone sees things as you do.

This is an open forum and everyone may express whatever they wish within the guidelines of the rules.

NTLFED, in my opinion, fits the criteria of personality-driven cult.

The politics are more of a facade, than anything else.

Some cults use politics as a facade, others religion, therapy, meditation, etc.

See []

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Re: NATLFED a/k/a National Labor Federation
Posted by: Christa ()
Date: July 26, 2009 10:51AM

Who the hell is Eric?

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Re: NATLFED a/k/a National Labor Federation
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: July 26, 2009 09:54PM

All are welcome to correspond here on Rick Ross's message board.

But if someone is currently having a vigorous disagreement with someone outside of the Rick Ross venue, its best to keep that out of the message board and solve the problem 'off campus.'

If people come here and get the idea that one minor misstep will result in them being yelled at, they'll be afraid to post anything and this message board will fail in its mission to be a sanctuary and research space. There's a lot of shaming and abusive hot seat stuff in political cults, and the last thing needed is to re-enact these dynamics on a thread that is meant for healing from this kind of abuse.

If there are any misunderstandings, feel free to take them to Mr Ross. He is the moderator.

Everyone else here is merely a registered member, and subject to the terms of use.

In case further clarification is needed:

What I did was to quote a chunk of dialogue that appeared on a YELP review of NATELFED. I am not sure what if this has anything to do with 'Eric' or not.

So that quoted material from YELP was a dialogue.

For that quoted material included viewpoints from people who supported NATELFED and also very strong and informed critiques from persons who disagreed with NATELFED--and some who disgreed had been, respectively a former NATELFED cadre, and disliked
the situation after having lived it at first hand.

Another person spoke of how a NATELFED front group disrupted a neighborhood shrine honoring Del Martin, a beloved activist who had spent 50 years fighting and living for gay and lesbian human rights.

I hope this clears matters up.

For the record, I do not approve of any group that would be so insensitive as to disrupt a neighborhood shrine honoring Del Martin.

Genuine activists heed the concerns of a neighborhood. They never impose their own ideology. They're supposed to serve people, not impose their rigid ideology upon people...thats like making everyone walk in the same size shoe regardless of whether the shoes fit or not.

To re-iterate, I hope that other persons who have been inside NATELFED feel able to dialogue here--and not be in fear of being yelled at if they make an innocent blunder.

One probably got yelled at all the time inside NATELFED, and those in recovery from NATELFED must be very careful not to re-enact this pattern within their own recovery venues.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/26/2009 10:08PM by corboy.

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Re: NATLFED a/k/a National Labor Federation
Posted by: Mary Struggler ()
Date: July 27, 2009 04:08AM

I have one gentleman looking for answers. His son is in an entity. I can only tell him my experiences and what drew me in, kept me in, the shock of being thrown out for daring to speak out, watching people I knew turn into mindless robots. I can't point him to a good site or person for help. He thanked me for sharing and now I'm sitting here wondering what else I could have offered. He wants his son out. I can't tell him how to do that.

Quite frankly, there was no one there for me. Sixteen years is a long time, recruited at age fifteen, beaten and dragged out of the office at age thirty three. Now admittedly I do not fully understand the concept of politics as facade (then the guns must have been props, yes, there really were guns). People genuinely committed to a cause.

There are people looking for answers. I suspect every person's case is highly individual. Most of the ex-cadre in the various forums are ones that chose to escape. How they arrived at that decision, I do not know. Maybe that's what the gentleman was looking for. Instead, he got the "screaming me-me" version of being beaten and dragged out the door, someone that didn't want to leave, someone that didn't see the truth until months later.

Again, I can't tell him how to get his son out. I know I can't suggest he do one of those kidnapping things or lock the kid up in a room for thirty six hours with a crazy de-programmer. I am beginning to doubt that ex-cadre will participate in this forum. People are tired of being tossed around the web from one site to another just to read the venom of ex-cadre. They don't know what to think. It is a cult? Is it a party? What ex-cadre often forget are the friends and relatives of cadre still in the Party, the people looking for help and not finding it.

All I can hope is that at least with this one man maybe I did make a difference, hopefully in a good way.

Mary Struggler

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Re: NATLFED a/k/a National Labor Federation
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: July 27, 2009 09:17AM

Mary Struggler:

It seems to me that you have a lot of sorting out to do.

See []

You might find this recovery page helpful.

Note the directory of counseling resources.

Also see []

This reading list might provide some helpful books.

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Re: NATLFED a/k/a National Labor Federation
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: August 03, 2009 10:10PM

"..become a Viable Volunteer...Leave Before They Suck You In"

An article about NATLFED can be read here and the following comments are of the utmost interest.


The commenter who is partially quoted below advised staying in NATLFED just long enough to learn fieldwork skills and then get out and take those skills to a project that is less self serving.

"If you have 2 years or more experience organizing in the field with natlefed your are probibly one of the best trained labor organizers in the country... The tecniques of natlfed with community oriented labor organizing works, and saying it doesn't and the group is just a cult totally discredits you."

Corboy Warning: Caution--this advice sounds interesting and some may indeed be able to implement it. However, it is possible to get trapped, by thinking you can use an organization for a time limited period and unestimate just how powerfuly that organization may affect you, and compromise your decision making skills, once you are inside.

If you're overworked and dont get enough sleep, and are yelled, have trauma buttons that can be pushed, are put through thought reform or if you see too many friends broken and shamed, then it may be hard for you to remember that that leaving is an option. The point of Zimbardo's Stanford Prison Experiment was that it took just a few days for both the students role playing guards and role playing prisoners, to forget they were free to leave.

Two, if you are persuaded to do anything embarrassing while in NATLFED, you may be so ashamed that you may become afraid to leave, and find yourself trapped. In other cases, you may be in love with someone, they may be afraid to leave, you dont want to leave that person, and that too can result in your being trapped. These are two scenarios that the commenter, for all his or her good advice, does not anticipate.

This said, here is the person's comment:


If you have a friend involved in natlfed field work you will never be able to discourage them by telling them that it is a cult and that what they are doing is not of value because it is simplistic and not exactly true.

If you have 2 years or more experience organizing in the field with natlefed your are probibly one of the best trained labor organizers in the country and you should not let the brainless prattle of self absorbed idiots get in the way of doing the work you are capable of doing.

When I saw chip Berlet on the stage with ward churchill at NCOR 2 or 3 years ago, ward lost a significant degree of credibility with me. The tecniques of natlfed with community oriented labor organizing works, and saying it doesn't and the group is just a cult totally discredits you.

But Natlfeds strong point, being the advance level of theory that comes with practical work is lost on the national level, it is likely the most top heavy organization on the face of the earth.

In 81 I think NOC's physical plant, it's space doubled in size after the purchase of the building on carroll street, and national began bringing fledgling cadre stright into NOC without allowing them to develope practical skills, theory and the confidence that comes with experience to challenge Gino authority.

These undeveloped children pride themselves on possessing a big picture when in reality they don't know squat and spend thier entire day like modern day monks reproducing orders they are briefed on.

I personally saw occassions where three to four Noc cadre worked all day on directives to go out to an field entity that had two or three cadre to implemented them. They where from my observation just like Chip Berlet, academic oreinted middle class kids easily convinced they knew better than lower class people more family with direct class struggle.

If you are involved in natlfed then ask yourself what effective political movement has ever been that damn top heavy?

thier field method works fine, if you want to learn how to canvass, fund raise etc then go ahead and become a Viable Volunteer for awhile and learn some practical skill, but leave before they suck you in, preferably with a copy of the EO slipped into you backpack. But Don't expect to ever implement anything all to far within thier structure,
I guaranttee they will sabotage your work.

If any former cadre needs emotional support transitioning into REAL political work I am willing to lend an ear an an encouraging word or two. I have successfully transfered some organizational method into an anarchist framework, replicating the special event protocal to direct actions aganist globalizations. I am also interested to know if anyone else has done this.

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Re: NATLFED a/k/a National Labor Federation
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: August 03, 2009 10:33PM

Another person who commented gave this advice--excerpt from a longer comment.


They are most likely trying to recruit you, but that doesn't mean there isn't also a human connection there.

What we see looking in now as manipulation, didn't seem like that when I was there.

In the very narrow closed logic that I got caught in*, it seemed the right thing to do so people could see what was really going on in the country and learn how we (Natlfed) were the answer.

*(Janja Lalich calls this 'very narrow closed logic' "bounded choice" Her book, Bounded Choice, describes how this works.-C)

'There are also some very good people from the low income community and other stratas volunteering. But, you can be sucked into this group very quickly.

'If you continue to volunteer, ensure you have other activities, get adequate sleep, and maintain an intellectual balance. Don't take what they say as the truth and check it out independently. If you begin to feel to pressured, say no and don't go in for awhile.

'Another alternative is to find another group that doesn't have the same leadership and credibility problems as Natlfed, but provides the same services or does the same type organizing. The SEIU for instance always needs volunteers. There are social service organizations in every community as well.

'Maybe you can cut part of your time with Natlfed and volunteer at another organization as well to see what the options are


-,mac link Wrong? 23.Aug.2006 12:54


Wrong, because you are a volunteer or IC cadre?

You actually think that what they're dong is going to in someway start a social revolution in this country? You think it's right to misrepresent and lie to volunteers and people in the community where their donations are going. It's OK to lie because thats what the government does? Because you're doing it in the name of "revolution" or to "build communism".

They are the masters of their own tiny universe. That they have been able to con the public into donating money, resources and property, so that they might build some tiny empire (owning buildings, apartments and businesses in cities from San Fransisco to New York) is not a testament to their revolutionary skill, just skills as con-artists.

The main and only purpose of the small offices in your locale are to recruit more "IC", interior cadre, i.e communists. i.e people that are coerced into working 7 days a week, from 8am to 11:30pm, to the point of mental and physical exhaustion, to keep the resources coming in.

Of course you need to legitimize the work, and the work of helping low-income people is never done.

It's not to say that the offices never help the members, they do, but that is just a byproduct.

If you really wanted to accomplish their said goals, don't you think more progress would have been made by now? [And they don't use computers??to accomplish said goals?

It's ridiculous. yes I did care and I truly believe that other cadre care about the circumstances of poor people and society in general, but this organization is just a big con, and will not ever accomplish it's stated goals. What a shame.

So...the goal is not revolution but owning property and having a large, unpaid workforce, eh?

Sounds like feudalism and without even accountability to God or the thread of hell as any sort of restraint on the leaders treatment of the peons and serfs.

As for dealing with property, the Physicians Organizing Committee (San Francisco)
rents its office space at 450 Sutter, a swank, Art Deco landmarked buidling that is the address for high prestige physicians and dentists in private practice.

Now....if a NATLFED group (POC) can afford to rent at a ritzy address 450 Sutter Street, they can afford to set up a website. So, why dont they?

They could also afford to get some computers for their cadresso that they can make revolution more efficiently. Stalin was no slouch when using modern methods, so why on earth is NATLFED not running a website, eh?

Folks, bargains are all over the place. Get some computers and set up a website. Capitalism is in its death throes. Exploit this. Buy some computers at a bargain.

(I am being sarcastic)

Your cadres could get the work done more efficiently, more quickly and be able to go to bed early enough to get a nice, nurturing 7 to 8 hours of sleep.

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/03/2009 11:00PM by corboy.

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