Re: Fake Tibetan Buddhist Lamas - Do you know any "Wolves in Lama's Robes
Posted by:
walter1963
()
Date: May 26, 2013 10:13AM
Meston never had a chance at a normal life. His so-called parents saw to it.
His parents were your typical self-absorbed navel gazing losers. His mother had her head so up her rear end she didn't even deserve to be called a mother.
I just wonder how many other children are being wrecked by selfish parents getting suckered into Tibetan Buddhism.
His parents were your typical self-absorbed navel gazing losers. His mother had her head so up her rear end she didn't even deserve to be called a mother.
I just wonder how many other children are being wrecked by selfish parents getting suckered into Tibetan Buddhism.
Re: Fake Tibetan Buddhist Lamas - Do you know any "Wolves in Lama's Robes
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: May 26, 2013 11:03AM
Nothing was said about Mathieu Ricard on this thread within the past 30 days until Rangdrol mentioned him just now.
The most recent material on this thread has to do with Daja Meston who was abandoned as a child in a Vajrayana monastery,and mistreated both by the boys and adults--a great lesson in the much vaunted compassion that Vajrayana is touted as teaching us.
The most recent material on this thread has to do with Daja Meston who was abandoned as a child in a Vajrayana monastery,and mistreated both by the boys and adults--a great lesson in the much vaunted compassion that Vajrayana is touted as teaching us.
Re: Fake Tibetan Buddhist Lamas - Do you know any "Wolves in Lama's Robes
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: May 26, 2013 11:44PM
To clarify, it is my opinion that whether they were called monks, lamas, whatever, the children and the adults in that monastery where young meston was consigned, behaved as monks in name only and as Buddhists in name only.
Children were treating Meston badly, just because he looked unlike them. The adults reportedly did little to stop this Lord-of-the-Flies behavior, demonstrating their own actual practice of compassion failed to operate.
To quote a friend, this doesnt seem to be a bug, a mere isolated malfunction, but a feature of a cruel society.
and because this society is being romanticised and a lot of money from the West (and tax free money) is being routed to support Vajrayana, we need to look at this more carefully.
Will tell you I gain no merit, real or imaginary merit toward an alleged better future rebirth by writing this.
One problem when secular citizens have to deal with those claiming to defend and speak for Vajrayana, is secular citizens are merely concerned with justice -- and also have well founded questions whether these spiritual tax exempt entities are giving harming too many people?
One cannot prove or disprove 'merit' or 'spiritual benfit' but one can track whats being done with money, and what is being done to people and if reports by abused persons continue long term and show similiarities.
The Vajrayana advocates come at it from a different angle, believing that to defend Vajrayana, no matter how frail one's argument or whether ones arguement is considered a distraction will garner merit for the advocate and bring an auspicous rebirth.
I, a citizen, have no hope or expectation of gain by posting here.
Anyone advocating for vajrayana can tell themselves they will, by distracting discussion, be reborn as a tulku or rinpoche or future buddha, sooner than otherwise. Just defending Vajrayana, even if by distraction, will gain that all important merit.
Secular citizens have no such incentives. And unless we look at the different mental world inhabited by those believing in the Vajrayana merit system, we cant imagine where the tenacity of Vajrayana apologists comes from, even when they continue the same tiresome arguments.
But...one persons annoying distraction is, to the Vajaryana advocate a source of merit if repeated often enough.
What has no logical or evidential value to the secular disputant will, for the Vajrayana advocate, perhaps have intrinsic merit toward a fortunate rebirth. By not having that belief, the secular lacks the inner reward system the Vajrayana disputant has.
The Vajrayana advocate sees him or herself as a dharma defender (dharma pala). This can give vajrayana advocates a stamina not enjoyed by most secular disputants who dont see themselves in any special role.
If one sees oneself as fast tracked to a great rebirth by trying to sidetrack a discussion away from the way even child monks in the Vajrayana system were monks in name only and persecuted a child who wore the same robes they did but looked different--thats an incentive secular disputants dont have. For most of us, justice just isnt as exciting as imagining rebirth as a tulku or throne holder of a baronial monastery.
Me, I am just a secular citizen, coffee junkie posting on this website. What I do wont get me to anything other than whats in this fleeting present moment.
Children were treating Meston badly, just because he looked unlike them. The adults reportedly did little to stop this Lord-of-the-Flies behavior, demonstrating their own actual practice of compassion failed to operate.
To quote a friend, this doesnt seem to be a bug, a mere isolated malfunction, but a feature of a cruel society.
and because this society is being romanticised and a lot of money from the West (and tax free money) is being routed to support Vajrayana, we need to look at this more carefully.
Will tell you I gain no merit, real or imaginary merit toward an alleged better future rebirth by writing this.
One problem when secular citizens have to deal with those claiming to defend and speak for Vajrayana, is secular citizens are merely concerned with justice -- and also have well founded questions whether these spiritual tax exempt entities are giving harming too many people?
One cannot prove or disprove 'merit' or 'spiritual benfit' but one can track whats being done with money, and what is being done to people and if reports by abused persons continue long term and show similiarities.
The Vajrayana advocates come at it from a different angle, believing that to defend Vajrayana, no matter how frail one's argument or whether ones arguement is considered a distraction will garner merit for the advocate and bring an auspicous rebirth.
I, a citizen, have no hope or expectation of gain by posting here.
Anyone advocating for vajrayana can tell themselves they will, by distracting discussion, be reborn as a tulku or rinpoche or future buddha, sooner than otherwise. Just defending Vajrayana, even if by distraction, will gain that all important merit.
Secular citizens have no such incentives. And unless we look at the different mental world inhabited by those believing in the Vajrayana merit system, we cant imagine where the tenacity of Vajrayana apologists comes from, even when they continue the same tiresome arguments.
But...one persons annoying distraction is, to the Vajaryana advocate a source of merit if repeated often enough.
What has no logical or evidential value to the secular disputant will, for the Vajrayana advocate, perhaps have intrinsic merit toward a fortunate rebirth. By not having that belief, the secular lacks the inner reward system the Vajrayana disputant has.
The Vajrayana advocate sees him or herself as a dharma defender (dharma pala). This can give vajrayana advocates a stamina not enjoyed by most secular disputants who dont see themselves in any special role.
If one sees oneself as fast tracked to a great rebirth by trying to sidetrack a discussion away from the way even child monks in the Vajrayana system were monks in name only and persecuted a child who wore the same robes they did but looked different--thats an incentive secular disputants dont have. For most of us, justice just isnt as exciting as imagining rebirth as a tulku or throne holder of a baronial monastery.
Me, I am just a secular citizen, coffee junkie posting on this website. What I do wont get me to anything other than whats in this fleeting present moment.
Re: Fake Tibetan Buddhist Lamas - Do you know any "Wolves in Lama's Robes
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: May 30, 2013 08:42PM
Tibetan Buddhist nun ('red sect') raped on bus, then ostracized by her sect.
In this case, its the members of the sect ostracizing the victim who are demonstrating themselves to be counterfeit for IMO, they are failing in their vows.
If they show such lack of compassion to a local woman who became nun and was raped, what kind of mercy would they show to a Westerner, an outsider?
No comparable ostracism of male monastics who maltreat others.
Times of India
Regarded as one of the most progressive religions in the world, this is a little-known face of Buddhism that is more a matter of interpretation by the followers of the Buddha than probably the teachings of the compassionate one himself.
Gang-Raped Nepal Nun Faces Expulsion
[webcache.googleusercontent.com]
Follow up on a Buddhist blog
July 12, 2011
[www.google.com]
In this case, its the members of the sect ostracizing the victim who are demonstrating themselves to be counterfeit for IMO, they are failing in their vows.
If they show such lack of compassion to a local woman who became nun and was raped, what kind of mercy would they show to a Westerner, an outsider?
No comparable ostracism of male monastics who maltreat others.
Times of India
Regarded as one of the most progressive religions in the world, this is a little-known face of Buddhism that is more a matter of interpretation by the followers of the Buddha than probably the teachings of the compassionate one himself.
Gang-Raped Nepal Nun Faces Expulsion
[webcache.googleusercontent.com]
Quote
KATHMANDU: From one of the most disadvantaged Adivasi communities of Nepal, a 21-year-old Buddhist nun who was gang-raped by five men last month in a public bus, now faces the additional ordeal of being stripped of her religious habit and turned out of the nunnery where she had been apprenticed for almost 10 years.
The young woman's family told TNN that she was still in a state of shock after having wavered between life and death in a hospital in India's border town of Siliguri. But she could no longer be considered a bhikshuni (Buddhist nun) after the rape, Nepal's Buddhist organisations said.
While condemning the attack and deploring the communist government's ignorance of a "rarest of rare" crime in Nepal, the birthplace of the Buddha, 15 Buddhist organisations said that as a result, she had lost "her religion" and could be no longer regarded as fit to be a nun.
"Such a thing never happened in the Buddha's lifetime," said Norbu Sherpa, an official of Nepal Buddhist Federation. "So he did not leave instructions about how to deal with the situation. Buddhists all over the world adhere to what he had laid down: that a person can no longer be considered ordained in case of having a physical relationship. It's applicable to both men and women."
Now the victim, whose family is already reeling under the burden of paying the Indian hospital nearly Rs 3 lakh for her treatment, can no longer go back to the nunnery in Pharping, the little town in central Nepal with a concentration of Buddhist monasteries, where she had been admitted when she was about 12 years old.
Asked if it was not a gross injustice to the woman who was a victim, Sherpa was regretful but firm. "A vessel that is damaged once can no longer be used to keep water," he said. "Buddhism all over the world says this. Even the Dalai Lama says you can't be a monk or nun after marriage."
(Corboy. This is an example of how analogy is accepted as proof in this part of the world. )
Regarded as one of the most progressive religions in the world, this is a little-known face of Buddhism that is more a matter of interpretation by the followers of the Buddha than probably the teachings of the compassionate one himself. Compared to the interpretation, the church, still vilified in Nepal despite the former Hindu kingdom becoming secular five years ago, supports its wronged nuns and monks with compassion.
Pastor Robin Rai of the Catholic church in Nepal said the church would not throw out a raped nun. "She is the victim," he told TNN. "To us, she is still a virgin. She remains a nun as long as she belongs to Christ."
The Nepal Tamang Lama Gedung added a sympathetic note, saying it would provide care for the victim.
The 21-year-old was raped on June 24 in a bus while travelling in eastern Nepal. Due to the rains, the bus arrived at the destination very late and she was forced to spend the night inside it. Her attackers are the driver of the bus, his two helpers, and the driver and helper of another bus. They also looted the money she was carrying with her.
The woman belongs to the Tamang community, one of the worst victims of human traffickers and suffering from a high degree of illiteracy and abject poverty.
Follow up on a Buddhist blog
July 12, 2011
Quote
Gangraped Nepal nun now faces expulsion from nunnery
'five points', bhikkhuni, ethics, gender, law, monastery, ordination, reform, religion, Thailand, Vinaya, women
The Times of India reports a harrowing story of violence and ignorance. Please read it first before coming back to this post.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This story is shocking: for a woman, from a powerless and disadvantaged background, who has chosen to live a life of simplicity in accord with the precepts of her religion, to be so abandoned by those who should be protecting her.
This story is by no means unique. I have heard of such cases many times. The rejection and denial by the Buddhist authorities in such cases only fuels more attacks. The nuns know that if they are raped they will be expelled, so they do not report the attacks, and men come to know that they can rape nuns with impunity.
The Nepalese Buddhist authority says that such cases never came up in the Buddha’s time, and appears to be arguing that one has to be a virgin to be ordained. This is an astonishing level of ignorance – repeatedly refuted in the comments to the article (the blog commenters know more about Buddhism than the authorities…). Half an hour with a Vinaya book would have showed him that rape did in fact occur in the Buddha’s lifetime, and the Buddha was very clear: there is no offence for the victim, and the perpetrator has committed one of the most heinous crimes possible.
But it’s not the factual mistake that is the real worry: it’s the disturbing way that a half-baked allusion to a mythical past somehow acts as a blanket excuse for such unfeeling dismissal. Supposedly ‘Buddhist’ ideas are being used to diminish compassion and justify cruelty.
Rape is no surprise. It is, shamefully, a part of human life everywhere. The incidence of violent crimes against women is horrific, no matter where or when you live. But there are things that can be done about it, starting with identifying that the rapist is the criminal, and he should be punished, not the victim.
It is a long road, and there is no simple solution. As people committed to Buddhism as a spiritual path, we need to recognize the close links between the status of women in the Sangha and the wider picture of violence to women. If the patriarchs of a religion treat women like this, how can they expect to set an example for the rest of society? The outcome of the consistent denial of women’s equality and refusal to recognize the fullness of women’s humanity is all too predictable. Recent figures from the UN reveal that over 60% of men in Thailand think it is sometimes justifiable to beat your wife, a figure that is second worst in the world.
Quote
UPDATE: The Nepal Buddhist Federation, who’s representative is quoted in the article, appears to be a legitimate body which is doing good work in Nepal. If you’d like to help go to their website and leave them a message asking them to reconsider their policy regarding nuns who have been raped. Here’s the message I left:
I am writing concerning the recent article in the Times of India concerning a nun who was gang raped and subsequently expelled from her monastery. A representative of your organization was quoted as saying that a nun who has been raped cannot continue to be a nun. This is not true: the 1st parajika offence for bhikkhus and bhikkhunis is only for consensual intercourse. In addition, it is not a compassionate and helpful attitude, which as you can see from the many comments to the article, has caused a great deal of criticism of Buddhism. I humbly beg you to reconsider your policy and urge that nuns who are the victims of such heinous crimes be accepted and cared for in their communities.
[www.google.com]
Quote
Nepalese chant performer gives refuge to ostracised gang-raped ...Aug 5, 2011... to ostracised gang-raped Buddhist nun. by "Asian News International"; ...
Known for her performance of Tibetan chants, Drolma offered refuge to the nun ...
other men after being stuck in bad weather, while travelling by bus.
www.thefreelibrary.com/Nepalese+chant+performer+gives+refuge+to+ ostracised+gang-raped...-a0263419985 - 33k - Cached - Similar pages
Nepalese chant star gives refuge to nun shunned after gang rape ...Aug 5, 2011 ... A Buddhist nun facing ostracism from her religious community in Nepal ... Tibetan
Buddhist nun burns herself to death in protest at Chinese rule ... When the bus
got stuck in bad weather she was obliged to spend the night on ...
www.independent.co.uk/.../nepalese-chant-star-gives-refuge-to-nun-shunned- after-gang-rape-2332103.html - 130k - Cached - Similar pages
Ugly Buddhist Women: Gangraped Buddhist Nun Thrown Out of ...Aug 9, 2011 ... Raped Buddhist nun's lost virginity might mean she no longer can ...
KATHMANDU — A Buddhist nun raped by five men on a bus is facing ostracism
from her ..... Tibetan spiritual leader Dalai Lama said in Himachal Pradesh's ...
ugly-buddhist-women.blogspot.com/.../gangraped-buddhist-nun-thrown-out- of.html - 92k - Cached - Similar pages
February | 2012 | Radikal Freedom BlogFeb 14, 2012 ... A 21 yr old Tibetan nun was recently gang raped by some dysfunctional men on
a bus in Nepal. As a nun she was then ostracised by the ...
www.radikalfreedomblog.com/yogablog/2012/02/ - 40k - Cached - Similar pages
Gangraped Nepal nun now faces expulsion from nunnery | Sujato's ...Jul 12, 2011 ... The nuns know that if they are raped they will be expelled, so they do not ...
regarded as lesser – the Tibetan word for woman means 'inferior birth'. ..... on a
public bus by a group of men but then to be ostracised by the very ...
sujato.wordpress.com/.../gangraped-nepal-nun-now-faces-expulsion-from- nunnery/ - 150k - Cached - Similar pages
South Asia | South Asia - The Buddhist Channelby Alice Reetham, Tibet Post International, 12 April 2013 ...... KATHMANDU,
Nepal -- A Buddhist nun raped by five men on a bus is facing ostracism from her ...
www.buddhistchannel.tv/index.php?southasia&all=1 - Similar pages
Re: Fake Tibetan Buddhist Lamas - Do you know any "Wolves in Lama's Robes
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: May 30, 2013 08:51PM
Note to Norbu:
Rape isnt the same as marriage.
Unless one has a very undeveloped mind that equates marriage with Tab A in Slot B.
Rape isnt the same as marriage.
Unless one has a very undeveloped mind that equates marriage with Tab A in Slot B.
Re: Fake Tibetan Buddhist Lamas - Do you know any "Wolves in Lama's Robes
Posted by:
walter1963
()
Date: May 31, 2013 07:15AM
So much for Tibetan Buddhist compassion - it doesn't exist. Just dead legalisms and pathetic excuses why they can't show a thread of human decency.
As far as the Buddhist leaders are concerned, they are a bunch of primitive savages with minds to match if they believe that rape is the same thing as consensual sex in a marriage.
Do you realize how creepy it is when you don't see the difference between rape and consensual sex in a marriage. How did they get so twisted.
And I would say none of their charities deserve a penny until they remove and burn those scriptures that promote such thinking.
As far as the Buddhist leaders are concerned, they are a bunch of primitive savages with minds to match if they believe that rape is the same thing as consensual sex in a marriage.
Do you realize how creepy it is when you don't see the difference between rape and consensual sex in a marriage. How did they get so twisted.
And I would say none of their charities deserve a penny until they remove and burn those scriptures that promote such thinking.
Re: Fake Tibetan Buddhist Lamas - Do you know any "Wolves in Lama's Robes
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: May 31, 2013 11:23PM
Follow up. Reports that the nun will not be expelled from her sect.
But...what if this had not become news and caused scandal and discussion in the Western (cash rich) Buddhist world?
If the violated nun had been ejected from her sect and gone to refuge with some Western Christian group, there would have been risk that she'd have discovered what real kindness is about---and revealed yet more stuff that the Vajaryanas would prefer kept hidden from the wealthy Western sanghas.
This story has appalling information. According to the story, the hospital initially did not want to admit her.
(!!!)
Where's the compassion?
It comes only when the world press raises hell, thats where it comes from.
Her name was supposed to be kept confidential by the media but was not.
[articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com]
But...what if this had not become news and caused scandal and discussion in the Western (cash rich) Buddhist world?
If the violated nun had been ejected from her sect and gone to refuge with some Western Christian group, there would have been risk that she'd have discovered what real kindness is about---and revealed yet more stuff that the Vajaryanas would prefer kept hidden from the wealthy Western sanghas.
Quote
[webcache.googleusercontent.com] Trip to Buddhism
(and maybe some other stuff)
Friday, July 22, 2011
Raped Buddhist Nun, again
There is a story that the raped Buddhist nun I referred to on July 14, 2011, will not be expelled. See this story:
This is good news. But sadly, it confirms that the original story was not a hoax and there could be such a decision in the first place.
This story has appalling information. According to the story, the hospital initially did not want to admit her.
(!!!)
Where's the compassion?
It comes only when the world press raises hell, thats where it comes from.
Her name was supposed to be kept confidential by the media but was not.
[articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com]
Quote
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:M__hvG7AQ4gJ:[articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com]
Gangraped Nepal nun likely to get re-admission in nunnery
Ugh.
Is this a standard interpretation of the rules in Vajrayana or just reflective of local custom? How would other traditions approach such a situation?
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Re: Expulsion for raped Buddhist nun ?!?
Postby Indrajala » Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:20 am
That is horrible. I hope some senior leadership steps in on her behalf.
She did not willingly have sexual intercourse, so she cannot be said to have broken her celibacy vows. There was no intent, so there was no violation of precepts.
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Re: Expulsion for raped Buddhist nun ?!?
Postby Pema Rigdzin » Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:49 amPosts: 991Quote
Yeah, this interpretation of the Vinaya by these Nepalis seems very ignorant, short-sighted and uneducated to me. IN my mind, going by what the Vinaya says and doesn't say, and based on the Abidharma teachings about the creation of karmas, there is no way in hell her ordination is now invalid as a result of being raped. And that bit about the Dalai Lama saying one cannot be a monastic after marriage is horse shit. HH would not say that because it's not what the Vinaya says. One cannot of course become a monastic DURING marriage, or get married while a monastic, but just having been married and then dissolving the marriage later does not disqualify one from becoming a monk or a nun. And in any case, this has nothing to do with this young woman's situation. To me, the handling of this profoundly unfortunate case sounds like some sort of cultural ideas about women and "purity" that has nothing to do with the Dharma at all.
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Re: Expulsion for raped Buddhist nun ?!?
Postby Indrajala » Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:54 am
"Buddhism all over the world says this. Even the Dalai Lama says you can't be a monk or nun after marriage.
How does being raped mean you're suddenly married?
Bunch of fools. I imagine there is more to this. There might be some political issue that is pressing for her ejection from the order for whatever reason.
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Re: Expulsion for raped Buddhist nun ?!?
Postby PadmaVonSamba » Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:39 pmProfile Picture: "The Foaming Monk"Quote
Times of India can be very sensationalistic and sometimes distorts the facts. So, probably more needs to be known about this. But if it is true then it reveals a lot about the condition that Buddhism is in.
It may be possible for her to find another nunnery.
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Re: Expulsion for raped Buddhist nun ?!?
Postby Lazy_eye » Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:43 pmQuote
Huseng wrote:That is horrible. I hope some senior leadership steps in on her behalf.
She did not willingly have sexual intercourse, so she cannot be said to have broken her celibacy vows. There was no intent, so there was no violation of precepts.
My thoughts exactly.
Huseng, I know you have some experience with 人間佛教 and other East Asian traditions. Any guesses on how they might approach a situation like this?
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Re: Expulsion for raped Buddhist nun ?!?
Postby Astus » Mon Jul 11, 2011 2:27 pmQuote
What is a position of a bhikkhuni being raped?
"The Vinaya, a voluminous collection of rules for the monks and nuns first written down in the fifth or sixth century CE, says she [Uppalavanna] was raped, completely disregarding the foregoing poem and her power of iddhi. (31) This story is told to make the point that if a nun is not willing to have sex and is raped, there is no fault on her part, and she has not broken the rule of celibacy. The same story is told in the commentary on the Dhammapada, which says she was raped while meditating alone in the forest, adding that as a consequence nuns were thereafter required to live together."
(Female mutability and male anxiety in an early Buddhist legend.(Critical essay)(Brief article))
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(Gampopa to Düsum Khyenpa, in "The First Karmapa", KTD Pub, p 254)
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Re: Expulsion for raped Buddhist nun ?!?
Postby Indrajala » Mon Jul 11, 2011 2:33 pm
Lazy_eye wrote:
Huseng wrote:That is horrible. I hope some senior leadership steps in on her behalf.
She did not willingly have sexual intercourse, so she cannot be said to have broken her celibacy vows. There was no intent, so there was no violation of precepts.
My thoughts exactly.
Huseng, I know you have some experience with 人間佛教 and other East Asian traditions. Any guesses on how they might approach a situation like this?Indrajāla's Contemplations (Blog)Quote
They would defer to the vinaya. The nuns in Chinese traditions still maintain the traditional vinaya regulations, so the nun would not be at fault.
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Re: Expulsion for raped Buddhist nun ?!?
Postby David N. Snyder » Mon Jul 11, 2011 4:41 pmImageQuote
Local custom. Talk about blaming the victim?!
Looks like the Buddha's 2,600 year old teachings are more progressive / advanced than some 21st century local customs.
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Re: Expulsion for raped Buddhist nun ?!?
Postby ronnewmexico » Mon Jul 11, 2011 5:34 pmUser avatarQuote
As mentioned by P at bit..this area is a hotbead of political turmoil between the communist or socialist followers and those of other view of the political, not even to mention india and their opinion of things and the indian view as opposed to the Chinese view of things due to political alliance.
England and the views expressed by the newspaper times of india perhaps is implicated as having agenda as well...I'd check into this very thoroughly before believeing in it exactly.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: Expulsion for raped Buddhist nun ?!?
Postby Starglade » Mon Jul 11, 2011 6:02 pm
David N. Snyder wrote:Local custom. Talk about blaming the victim?!
Looks like the Buddha's 2,600 year old teachings are more progressive / advanced than some 21st century local customs.Quote
Indeed. This is pretty much the exact thought I had on reading this. The Buddhist precepts seem pretty clear on it (the nun was not at fault), but apparently the local customs take precedence over the precepts. Scary, that, at least to me. One would think the nun would be protected by her order, no? Perhaps that's merely my 21st-century Western American take on it.[/[/i]quote]Starglade
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Re: Expulsion for raped Buddhist nun ?!?
Postby gnegirl » Mon Jul 11, 2011 6:20 pm"Things are not what they appear to be: nor are they otherwise." --Surangama SutraQuote
What lineage is she in? Certainly there is someone we could implore to take her back in!
Phenomenon, vast as space, dharmata is your base, arising and falling like ocean tide cycles, why do i cling to your illusion of unceasing changlessness?
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Re: Expulsion for raped Buddhist nun ?!?
Postby kirtu » Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:46 amKirtQuote
We should find out what order she belongs to and then ask a well respected traditional leader to intercede.
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Re: Expulsion for raped Buddhist nun ?!?
Postby Indrajala » Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:51 am
kirtu wrote:We should find out what order she belongs to and then ask a well respected traditional leader to intercede.
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My friend in Kathmandu said the local paper had a fair sized article on this, so the Buddhist community there is well aware of it I imagine.
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Re: Expulsion for raped Buddhist nun ?!?
Postby Dexing » Tue Jul 12, 2011 8:32 amnopalabhyate...Quote
What an absolutely sickening case of blaming the victim.
And it's agreed upon by "15 Buddhist organizations"? Are you kidding me?
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Re: Expulsion for raped Buddhist nun ?!?
Postby kirtu » Tue Jul 12, 2011 9:04 am
Huseng wrote:
kirtu wrote:We should find out what order she belongs to and then ask a well respected traditional leader to intercede.
My friend in Kathmandu said the local paper had a fair sized article on this, so the Buddhist community there is well aware of it I imagine.Quote
The issue is that people are reflexively applying social rules without thinking through the consequences. The history of the US and Western Europe wrt social facism concerning racial minorities and homosexuality and oppression of Jewish and Gypsy minorities respectively is offered as a significant example. It was not so long ago that these societies would have reacted reflexively too (in some cases they still do react reflexively). Would the Catholic Church have enacted such an enlightened policy 100 or 200 years ago? I think not. For one thing the Irish had work camps for single mothers that amounted to slavery less than 50 years ago. If we look we will find that raped nuns in the past had also in at least some cases been expelled from their orders. The last 50 years of social change in the West has been significant.
Therefore awareness of the issue alone isn't sufficient. We are asking a lot of a still mostly pre-modern society. However explained in the right way the people will overcome this prejudice.
Why was this nun raped to begin with? Was this action actually an expression of minority or class or religious or possibly Marxist or other violence? Historically ritual rape (which is clearly what this was) is an expression of minority or class violence. A despised minority had to be put in their place. Less frequently a despised individual had to be put in their place but that has happened too. Ritual rape is a tool for enforcing social power. There is almost certainly an underlying minority oppression problem that is the actual cause.
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Re: Expulsion for raped Buddhist nun ?!?
Postby cooran » Tue Jul 12, 2011 9:21 am
Hello all,
Posted by pilgrim on DhammaWheel:
The incidentQuote
The nun was returning home with Rs 130,000 from Kakarbhitta. She boarded a bus in Dharan at around 10 a.m. for Sabha Khola. She would have to cross the river by boat because of the monsoon spate, and take another vehicle to reach Khandbari by evening.
“Throughout the journey she was in constant touch with her aunt in Kakarbhitta and had said in her last communication around 6 p.m. that she may be late reaching Khandbari as the road was blocked by a broken-down tractor,” Tara Tamang, the victim´s cousin, disclosed.
The bus reached Sabha Khola late and a boat was not available for the night. “Local hotels told us that she had asked for a room for the night but all rooms were already taken,” Inspector Thapa said.
She then had supper with the bus crew at one of the hotels and apparently agreed to stay in the bus for the night as she was a nun and also because an elderly woman was also staying in the same bus, the inspector added. The bus crew apparently drugged her at the hotel before raping her in the bus. “She said they had offered her a beer which she refused and she only remembers taking a Frooty at the hotel. The Frooty must have been drugged,” her father said.
Family misfortune
The victim was the eldest of Krishna Bahadur´s four daughters. His wife is chronically ill and can´t help him much with his farming.
The nun had tried to get enrolled in Dharamshala, India last year and borrowed Rs 20,000 from her uncle and aunts for the purpose but she couldn´t get admitted as she missed the deadline by a few days. She had then returned to Nepal and was staying in Pokhara.
Krishna Bahadur had planned to build the new house after selling one of his two buffalos but both were found dead in the morning just five days before the rape incident. She was bringing the borrowed money from her aunt for the house construction. “The death of the buffaloes was a bad omen and then this happened to my daughter just days later,” Krishna Bahadur lamented.
Exceprt from: [www.myrepublica.com] ... s_id=33156
[www.dhammawheel.com] ... 95#p139818
Also posted by pilgrim on Dhammawheel:
If anyone feels compelled to contact the Nepal Buddhist Federation, you can do so here
[www.nbf.org.np]
email: info@nbf.org.np
[www.dhammawheel.com] ... 95#p139831
with metta
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Re: Expulsion for raped Buddhist nun ?!?
Postby conebeckham » Tue Jul 12, 2011 3:39 pmThis is a sad story.Quote
Kakarbhitta is a cesspool...I wouldn't want to be a young woman there...hell, I wouldn't want to be there alone, myself, as a large white male. What was it Obi Wan said about Mos Isley Spaceport--"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villiany..."
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Re: Expulsion for raped Buddhist nun ?!?
Postby Pema Rigdzin » Wed Jul 13, 2011 6:53 am
Chris
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Dharma Wheel is associated with Dhamma Wheel.
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Re: Fake Tibetan Buddhist Lamas - Do you know any "Wolves in Lama's Robes
Posted by:
Misstyk
()
Date: June 02, 2013 04:46AM
RE: Meston--he got himself expulsed from the monastery by faking a visit to a prostitute? But monks routinely visit prostitutes. The lead monks and abbots look the other way. What sect's monastery was he in? Has anyone read his book? Does he say anything about the sexual activity in the monastery? Typically, the young boys are used for sex, but according to reports by former monks, and a paper by Melvin Goldstein, it's common for monks to leave the monastery at night to visit sex workers who set up shop near the monasteries. Goldstein explains that the Tibetan regime's priority has always been quantity of monks at the expense of quality. In order to retain huge numbers of monks in the monastic centers, and prevent them from quitting when they came of age, standards were deliberately compromised, and sexual activity was allowed.
Do we have any readers here in France, who could provide follow-up reports regarding the rape charges against monks/lamas in Kagyu Ling, posted a couple of pages ago, here? This should be getting wider exposure, in order to encourage women in other countries to step forward re: their own suffering at the hands of TB monks.
For papers on Tibetan monasticism, see: [www.cwru.edu]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/02/2013 04:54AM by Misstyk.
Do we have any readers here in France, who could provide follow-up reports regarding the rape charges against monks/lamas in Kagyu Ling, posted a couple of pages ago, here? This should be getting wider exposure, in order to encourage women in other countries to step forward re: their own suffering at the hands of TB monks.
For papers on Tibetan monasticism, see: [www.cwru.edu]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/02/2013 04:54AM by Misstyk.
Re: Fake Tibetan Buddhist Lamas - Do you know any "Wolves in Lama's Robes
Posted by:
LisaLin
()
Date: June 07, 2013 05:59AM
There are users in all religious. It's impossible to know all of them. We have to use our brain and instinct.
Buddhism is all about how to be a human. We treat others as how we want to be treated.
Buddha would treat you with kindness and compassion. He would not hurt any living beings and spirits.
If anyone cause you pain (mental or physical) , he/she DOES NOT practice Buddhism.
Buddhism is all about how to be a human. We treat others as how we want to be treated.
Buddha would treat you with kindness and compassion. He would not hurt any living beings and spirits.
If anyone cause you pain (mental or physical) , he/she DOES NOT practice Buddhism.
Re: Fake Tibetan Buddhist Lamas - Do you know any "Wolves in Lama's Robes
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: June 24, 2013 10:00PM
StickySchool of Tibetan Healing Chod and Lama Jinpa
[forum.culteducation.com]
June 23, 2013 08:11PM Misstyk wrote:
[forum.culteducation.com]
June 23, 2013 08:11PM Misstyk wrote:
Quote
One thing that strikes me about this story is how Tibetan Buddhism has become commercialized. It seems more and more like this or that lama, whether Asian or Western, has taken an aspect of Buddhist practice, developed it into a product to be marketed, and then uses that vehicle to travel the world, make a name for himself, and teach the uninitiated techniques that traditionally were only intended for advanced practitioners. I wonder how much background in Buddhism participants in the scheduled (and subsequently cancelled) workshops were required to have, if any.
Does anyone know what happened to the Bhutanese girl? Was she young enough to still be under the care of her parents? Tibetan Buddhism seems to attract the most unsavory characters, who only end up discrediting the religion as a result of their behavior. On the other hand, knowing what we know about the late Kalu Rinpoche, this type of behavior doesn't seem surprising.
This thread should be reference on the thread about false lamas.
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