A short article on the topic of this forum:

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…it still seems that a thick air of unaddressed issues hangs in the air around Diamond Mountain University.

You wouldn’t get this sense if you went to DMU’s website, though, where Michael Roach has written a cheerful and upbeat 3-year retreat update. There he mentions the death of Ian Thorson indirectly 3 times, calling it and the problems with Christie McNally “the tragic events at DM earlier this spring,” “The difficulties we’ve had earlier this year,” and “the recent sad events.” I imagine that those affected by the death of Thorson and hospitalization of McNally will hardly take solace in such nods to the recent past.

It appears, ever more, that Roach and the folks at Diamond Mountain are happy to just wait this out.

Roach, it is noted, refused all on-camera interview requests – and the request to comment in the Princtonian – and continues to travel and teach Buddhism around the world.
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[www.patheos.com]

If you click through to the article, you'll see links to a significant number of other short articles on the same subject.

Scandals include, but are not limited to: "Ian Thorson, 38, died on the morning of 4/22/12 of apparent dehydration in a cave in southeastern Arizona, after having been banished by the administration of nearby Diamond Mountain University, which is under the leadership of “Geshe” Michael Roach."
SOURCE: [www.elephantjournal.com]

On the same subject as the message that I just posted, by the way, the New York Times article is worth seeing for the photograph alone:

www.nytimes.com/2012/06/06/us/mysterious-yoga-retreat-ends-in-a-grisly-death.html

"The monk who ran the retreat, Michael Roach, had previously run a diamond business worth tens of millions of dollars and was now promoting Buddhist principles as a path to financial prosperity, raising eyebrows from more traditional Buddhists."

Sigh… I suppose my raised eyebrows indicate that I'm a more traditional Buddhist.

Mr. Roach is no longer a monk even though he still calls himself one. He violated those monastic vows some time back. He's so notorious that even the Dalai Lama doesn't want anything to do with him. He's seen as a embarrassment. His own teachers think he is crazy and out of control sex maniac who goes both ways.

Anyone and I mean anyone who takes teachings from this ego-manical sleaze deserves to get fleeced. Just listening to some of the toxic garbage should set off warning lights. But to bored, dysfunctional upper class types who are just looking for non-demanding sexual-spiritual thrills, he's golden.

Here's another warning sign he segued in Kali in to TB teachings. At his concentration camp for yuppies, there's a statue of Kali, with a chainsaw, AK-47, samurai sword, crossbows, rifles.

He even made his students do a blood sacrifice to Kali.

This guy is seriously bent.

(from the Daily Beast)

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Quote:
But ex-devotees and skeptics of Roach claim he has tweaked ancient teachings to fit his philosophy.

Thomason pointed to a temple at Diamond Mountain devoted to Kali, a traditional Hindu goddess, that housed crossbows, rifles, chainsaws, an AK-47, and a samurai sword.


“They were trying to manipulate Kali to represent some Tibetan deity, but it just didn’t make sense,” Thomason said. During an initiation ceremony conducted by McNally in 2009, Thomason said, she and other students were asked to draw blood from their fingertips as a sacrifice to Kali.

When I asked Roach if he approved of McNally’s ceremony, his response was vague.

“We had over 130 students graduate from our seven-year course in advanced Buddhism. Many of these students have granted their own initiations, in keeping with a tradition of over 1,000 years. I rarely have time to attend these,” he wrote, adding that he wasn’t present at McNally’s ceremony.

Thurman argued that Roach’s teachings from the text are difficult to verify because Roach himself operates in a self-justifying universe.

“Most of his followers have only studied with him and learned from his translations,” Thurman said.

Other ex-devotees, such as Sid Johnson, say the student’s blind faith in the teacher breeds cognitive dissonance, particularly if that teacher has a distorted understanding of the role his own desires and attachments play in his interpretation of traditional doctrine.

“How can a student determine the truth in any situation when the teacher doesn’t have a grip on reality?”

and

Quote:
Other former students recalled feeling uncomfortable with the dynamic created by Roach’s relationship with McNally.

Sid Johnson, who first met Roach in 1999, moved out to Diamond Mountain in 2000 to help build a foundation for the University. He left a year later, but he returned for an initiation ceremony in 2005 with his wife, at which he recalled McNally kissing him on the mouth and touching his genitals, an experience he didn’t tell his wife about until years later.

“This was the last straw for me, but my wife had become smitten with the whole thing,” he said. McNally “was basically presented as the Buddha, and we were all supposed to see her as a holy enlightened being.”

(The Daily Beast)

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Quote:
The Michael Roach Bubble. | elephant journalJun 29, 2012 ... The disjunction between Michael Roach's bubble of obliviousness and .....
diminishment (Sure, the Kali initiation of 2010 featured weapons and ...
www.elephantjournal.com/2012/06/the-michael-roach-bubble/ - 833k - Cached - Similar pages


Dharma Wheel • View topic - Death at Tibetan Buddhist meditation ...Is there any one of the 100+ people who attended the Kali initiation that did ...
knives, samurai long swords, a temple full of every imaginable weapon. ... kirtu:
Posts: 2540: Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:29 pm: Location: Washington, DC .... It
appears that Roach massively misunderstood or misrepresented his ...
www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=8137&start... - 60k - Cached - Similar pages


Buddhist Retreat's Death Saga - The Daily BeastJul 10, 2012 ... In a carpeted auditorium in Phoenix last month, devotees of Michael Roach lined
up in front of a stage to present him with bouquets of flowers, ...
www.thedailybeast.com/articles/.../buddhist-retreat-s-death-saga.html - 70k - Cached - Similar pages


Initiation - News - EvriThe Michael Roach Bubble. ...real houses, with real appliances!); diminishment (
Sure, the Kali initiation of 2010 featured weapons and bloodletting, but it was ...
www.evri.com/concept/initiation-0x582b9f - Similar pages


Geshe Michael Roach and Lama Christie McNally - Cult Education ...May 8, 2012 ... Geshe Michael Roach and Lama Christie McNally ..... Allowing martial arts
instruction including weapons-play into retreat ...... At some point I will disclose
more, like the details of the “initiation” I witnessed, including the ..... They were
legally divorced December 1st, 2010 in Yavapai County, Arizona.
forum.culteducation.com/read.php?12,110112,page=3 - 207k - Cached - Similar pages


The Diamond Mountain Blog with Geshe Michael Roach and Lama ...May 26, 2012 ... This is an unofficial blog of news and info from Diamond Mountain University and
Retreat Center which was founded by Geshe Michael Roach ...
diamondmountain.blogspot.com/ - 61k - Cached - Similar pages


Disinformation » New AgeThe monk who ran the retreat, Michael Roach, had previously run a diamond
business worth ... [Former adherents] spoke of bizarre initiation ceremonies at
Diamond Mountain. ... But I've had a secret grassroots weapon, one that a lot of
mainstream .... The woman embarked on the diet after watching the controversial
2010 ...
www.disinfo.com/tag/new-age/feed/ - 235k - Cached - Similar pages

Male blood offerings to Kali


Quote:
Shri Kalika DeviHer protruding tongue drips with the fresh blood of her enemies. But this .... Male
creatures may only be sacrificed to Kali, else she becomes furious. Verse 19 ...
www.shivashakti.com/kali.htm - 23k - Cached - Similar pages


Procedure of animal sacrifice to Kali mataThere are tamasic Kali worshippers who offer blood of goat at night and ... You
can sacrifice animals but should only sacrifice male goats and ...
defenceforumindia.com/.../37913-procedure-animal-sacrifice-kali-mata.html - 85k - Cached - Similar pages

Quote:

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This past Saturday, my brother and I decide to go looking for this, in a place called Dakshinkali, Nepal. Twice each week, on Tuesdays and Saturday, Nepalese families travel to this small village, 45 minutes outside of Kathmandu, to perform mass animal sacrifices — with uncastrated male animals like buffaloes, goats, sheep, pigs, and chickens — in front of a statue of Kali, the six-armed Hindu goddess of time and change. Kali, whose name means “the black one,” is Hindu deity Shiva’s bloodthirsty companion, said to be a ferocious slayer of evil. According to legend, Kali looks after those who satiate her bloodlust by bringing wealth to the poor, revenge to the persecuted, and children to the infertile. Two hundred years ago, worshippers sacrificed a human boy every day at a Kali temple in Kolkata, India, but today, of course, human sacrifice is illegal and animals must suffice. (Nevertheless, a three-year-old and 15-year-old boy were hacked to death illegally by their parents in a secret ceremony for Kali in India as recently as 2002.

[www.time.com]

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Some thoughts on a chainsaw amongst the weapons in the Kali Kollection.

(Corboy note: Even if Kali did belong in the Tibetan pantheon, which she does not, Kali worship requires blood sacrifice--of MALE animals.

If women were being directed to offer blood from their fingers at the controversial Kali ritual, (overseen by McNally, which Roach says he did not attend but was linked to Diamond Mountain and its Kali Temple), this was in violation of the Kali sacrifice protocol, which calls for blood from male animals.

In Corboy's First Amendment protected citizen's hunch, if both women and men are as part of this "Kali ritual" offering blood from their fingers, when the actual ritual only requires blood from males, this Diamond Mountain-linked ritual violates the Kali protocol, violates the basic precepts of Buddhadharma and, from Corboy's perspective, resembles a loyalty blood oath, dressed up in exotic trappings.

For 'finger prick' 'blood oath' see here

[www.google.com]

And--why a chainsaw?

A chainsaw is, technically a work tool. But we have many horror movies in which chainsaws are used to terrorize and news reports in which in organized crime, bodies are disposed of using chainsaws, giving a sinister and terrifying layer of meaning to what is supposed to just be used as a work tool, and not a weapon.

[/i]

Had Roach and McNally remained congruent with Gelukpa practice, they would have done a ritual in honor of Mahakala, which does not demand blood sacrifice.

Gelukpa lamas did not utilize Kali images or ritual. In Mongolia, the Gelukpa Buddhist lamas sought to eradicate blood sacrifice rituals, not encourage such rituals.

The Gelukpas in Mongolia, at the direction of the Third and Fourth Dalai Lamas, and sponsored by local leaders (The Gelukpas are the lineage Roach claimed to belong to), strove, in Mongolia, to replace indigenous blood sacrifice rituals with rituals and images honoring Mahakala,, a terrifying deity equated with protection of the Buddhadharma.

Mongols were directed to replace their shamanic tent-talismans with Mahakala images.

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Quote

mass conversion of the Tumet and Ordos Mongols into Yellow Sect occurred. These tribes adopted a series of new laws which ensured the spread of Lamaism among the Mongols, and placed obstacles in the practice of shamanism.

The killing of women, slaves and animals as funerary offerings were abandoned. All bloody flesh offerings and all blood offerings were forbidden. The possession of Ongghot (talismans)was also forbidden and were burned by order. In their place images of seven-armed Mahakala, the protective lord of lamaism, were worshipped in every family.[8]

[books.google.com]

[www.patheos.com]

".... in their breaks from previous traditions they stepped outside of all oversight][/b]
And in much more controversial news, WH of The Masculine Heart[masculineheart.blogspot.com] broke the story (to me at least) about Kalu Rinpoche, a young Tibetan monk -and believed reincarnation of the previous Kalu Rinpoche, a highly revered Buddhist teacher -who posted a video with allegations of abuse and attempted murder at the hands of his elders. What caught my eye was the statement by WH: “It seems monastic systems are fundamentally flawed – we have seen it in Catholic history, and here we see it in a Tibetan tradition.”

While monasticism itself may not be flawed, it is clear that certain institutions have come to be flawed. And it is in the best interest of all of us to do what we can to fix them. As Matthew points out, there are vows that many Buddhists take which forbid them from criticizing their teacher:

A disciple of the Buddha must not himself broadcast the misdeeds or infractions of Bodhisattva-clerics or Bodhisattva-laypersons, or of [ordinary] monks and nuns — nor encourage others to do so. He must not create the causes, conditions, methods, or karma of discussing the offenses of the assembly…. (From the Brahma’s Net Sutra)Ironically, I remember Roach, in one of his pre-2000 teachings, imploring students to take a modern, open understanding of this and to actually be very critical of teachers -including himself- who may be teaching wrong views or practices. As elsewhere there is the warning that wrong views and acts by a teacher could lead both the teacher and students to many lifetimes in the hell realms. While we might take this literally if we wish, we can also look at what appears to be spiraling, physical abuse, and ultimately death by exposure and dehydration as a fairly graphic depiction of what we can imagine hell to be in this life.


----------------
I’ll go further to suggest an official global Buddhist oversight organization.

A transparent clearing house of information and informed discussion on all aspects of Buddhism in the world today. Until now, especially in the West, students have had little to help them determine whether a Buddhist group they were visiting was legitimate or potentially dangerous. In the groups I mentioned above we have seen suicides, murder, massive sexual impropriety, and now the death of a man in the Arizona desert. Not all of this could necessarily be avoided, but we do have a responsibility to speak up. Right now, many who do speak up, such as those behind the New Kadampa Survivors network, have no legitimate forum to air their grievances. So the internet has become a battle-ground of ‘survivors’ and defenders, which doesn’t bode well for the future of Buddhism in general.

Part of the problem with Roach and others is that in their breaks from previous traditions they stepped outside of all oversight. A general oversight association couldn’t eliminate the rise of future problems like this, but it could go a long way in terms of simply:

1.requesting reports on activities, membership, and activities from Buddhist groups. Those that wish to be secretive would be listed as such. People new to Buddhism and unsure about their group could check it out, expecting fair information.
2.encouraging people to report abuses or unsafe conditions and expect such reports to be taken seriously – whether internally or by alerting outside authorities

....If abuses continue with either no response or only late reactive responses, even in what look like small corners of the Buddhist world, we will no doubt here calls similar to those of academic Michael Ruse in regard to the Catholic church:

[www.patheos.com]

“Let me say at once that, unlike Dawkins, I don’t necessarily want to see this as the end of religion or even of the Catholic Church in some form. I stress that although I cannot share the beliefs of Christians, I respect them and applaud the good that is done in the name of their founder. But I do now think that as presently constituted, the Catholic Church is corrupt and should be eradicated.”

Sid Johnson · 6 weeks ago
Hey everyone, good to see the discussion still going on. I stopped checking in a while back when I realized the incredible pain in my right arm was a repetitive stress injury caused by scrolling up and down this bloody thing. And our dear friend Michael is still zooming around the planet living his fantasy life, preaching his nonsense to whoever he can, and will continue to do so without much disruption from the likes of us

. Fo what its' worth,I have begun to write an account of my time at Diamond Mountain not only for my own piece of mind, but because i think someone should document their experience from the inside. I would encourage others to do the same, a few different accounts would be very interesting, and a good resource for whoever decides to do some full blown intensive investigative journalism on one of the most twisted spiritual teachers to have come along in some time, I'm sure it will happen at some point.

I also want to re-iterate that anyone who would like to share their experience has absolutely nothing to fear. I was worried that there would be repercussions in "real life" when my name started appearing in media stories in some rather embarrassing contexts. But there were none. No one gives a shit except those who have an investment in the story one way or the other. And the Russian mafia thing is a joke, another part of the self absorbed fantasy, a gross exaggeration extrapolated from the most mundane of affairs. And you will not burn in Tantric hell, as much as the most devout Muslim man will not be rewarded with 120 virgins in the afterlife, no matter how much he believes.

Anyway, keep talking, but don't let it take up too much of your lives, I hate to think about how much satisfaction all of this notoriety must bring to the megalomaniac who brought us all together. If anyone want to find me, feel free to look me up on Facebook.
Cheers Report Reply
8 replies · active 3 weeks ago

and

Tenor · 6 weeks ago
Thank you for documenting your experience and you are very correct that more personal accounts should be documented and published. Hopefully, the "sensational" tragedy of death and jealousy will inspire accurate journalistic investigative reports. I was worried you were so frustrated you wouldn't continue to contribute to the unveiling -- as I read your second post first. MR's self-promotional 'mystery and intrigue' may lead to more exposure and that may protect some from getting suckered in. For the sake of others and the preservation (as much as possible) of pure teachings, please don't lose patience with this issue completely. Report Reply
+4 Vote up Vote down Jehne_Lunden 65p · 6 weeks ago
Hi Sid. Just had a look at your facebook. I noticed that you are a fan of Dawkins and Harris. Is this post Roach? Also, will you be publishing your writings on a blog? I would be interested in reading them. Report Reply +4 Vote up Vote down Sid Johnson · 6 weeks ago
Yes, Dawkins and Harris are recent, the last few years, I would have considered them extreme and ignorant in my DM days. I read them mainly because I was living in a small town full of Christian creationists, which I found baffling. I now look at them in the same way I look at GM and DM. As I have mentioned before, I am probably more drawn to the Integral movement these days, so I don't totally subscribe to the whole material scientific reduction theme of Dawkins and Harris, although I think they are brilliant and even beautiful writers. I found Ken Wilber helped me make the most sense out of why I went down the path I did with Buddhism. A few key ideas like AQAL, spiral dynamics and pre/trans fallacy are something I would recommend to anyone questioning the spiritual path. And the good thing about having gone through the paces with GM is that I don't swallow everything like a did with the Lamas', who could do no wrong. There are parts of the Integral movement that I don't like, for example their constant marketing machine, and there are some very valid critiscisms of Wilber, the whole thing can seem a bit cultish as well, so i'm careful to make sure I'm not just repeating a habit, carefully weighing the ideas over time.
As for the writing, I'm not sure yet how I will present it, as an e-book perhaps or on a blog on my music site. Not in big hurry, my typing is slow and writing pretty rough! Report Reply +5 Vote up Vote down Corvid · 6 weeks ago
I think all you people need to watch more non educational television. True Blood. the Matrix. Oops scratch that one! Report Reply +2 Vote up Vote down Josey · 6 weeks ago
Yes, education wipes the "local color" out of you. Report Reply
+4 Vote up Vote down Jehne_Lunden 65p · 6 weeks ago
Thanks Sid.

Just watched a video produced by The Integral Movement: [www.youtube.com].

I'd be lying if I said it didn't creep me out a little bit. OK a lot! Honestly, it screamed CULT louder than any other article of propaganda that I have ever come across--including the film, "Triumph of the Will." And it is worrisome because the production values are so high. It is mesmerizing, intoxicating, smooth. It pulls you in. I guess that is the point. But it is a lie. The Integral Movement does NOT have the greatest scientists, thinkers, and artists of our time embracing it's ideology. Be careful. I do hope you haven't replaced one convoluted belief system with another.

Found this article from a jaded Wilberite: [postmasculine.com]

Does his story, experience, sound similar to Remski's, or even yours as ex-Roach devotees?

I look forward to interacting with you on facebook. Thanks for reading my blog. Also, I will check out your music.

I just viewed The Integral Movement video. And it is a very slick and very deceptive piece of advertising. Very little truth lots of hype, lies and half-truths. Fraudulent would be a good label. Indeed there are very few men and women scientists, thinkers, and artists associated with it. It's mostly a watering hole for tainted psychologists looking for a new racket to make money off of. To many of the top people have very questionable pasts and associations starting with Wilber himself.

And I do agree that it screams CULT. It promises people heaven and the answer for everything. That's some heavy s**t as people would say.

Best to stay away from such people.

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Quote

I visited a Meditation centre today where the teacher claims he 'IS' a BUDDHA (fully enlightened)
«12»
Comments
genkakugenkaku Member
June 2011
Are you an Aussie, genkaku?
___________________________

@dakini No, American. But that doesn't mean I won't sic my attack kangaroo on anyone who fails to play nice. :)
Insightful Awesome LOL
compassionate_warriorcompassionate_warrior Member
June 2011

Quote

The women were also able to provide documents to the Sunday Canberra Times that showed complaints about Lama Choedak's conduct were met with stern warnings from senior foreign figures in the Tibetan Buddhist movement, who said talking to the media or telling new group members what had happened could be spiritually damaging and prevent other Canberrans from ''achieving enlightenment through buddhism''.

Don't you love this logic (being sarcastic)? It's not the perpetrator who is behaving in a "spiritually damaging" way and possibly preventing others from "achieving enlightenment through buddhism", it's the victims who cry "foul", and are exercising compassion and right speech in speaking out and warning others. :shake:

and

Quote

Sorry to say that this approach is more common than uncommon ... in Buddhist circles, Catholic circles, business circles and perhaps even personal circles: Shoot the messenger! Like all errors, the best anyone can take away from it is, "Don't YOU do that!"
Insightful Awesome LOL
compassionate_warriorcompassionate_warrior Member
June 2011
Besides, it's not true that criticism of one sect in one tradition will turn people off to Buddhism as a whole. It may turn people off to that sect, or to that tradition (which may not be a bad thing. Dare one hope that such an eventuality would force the tradition to clean up its act?), but there are other traditions in Buddhism that the disenchanted can turn to, as well as the option of studying on one's own. And there are non-sectarian dharma centers where one can study. The leadership mentioned in the article either has no idea how badly they're behaving, or doesn't care. Or maybe is reacting out of fear. (End rant. Back to topic...)
Insightful Awesome LOL
genkakugenkaku Member
June 2011
CW -- No criticism or dissent intended, but I think that one of the great obstacles in Buddhist practice is to imagine that because my longing is to be 'pure' or 'unblemished' or 'enlightened,' others' longings will run along similar lines. This is foolish and a waste of time. It is not foolish and a waste of time because others do not have similar longings or because they transgress from within their chosen school or format. Some do. Some don't. But either way we are left to extinguish the fires of hell in our own houses.

I am not suggesting that a jaundiced view of humanity is warranted. I am not suggesting that a rosy view is warranted either. These are just more barriers. I am trying to suggest that having decided to make a Buddhist effort, we should do so with determination -- learning from others, perhaps, but not relying on either their horns or their halos.
Insightful Awesome LOL
compassionate_warriorcompassionate_warrior Member
June 2011
CW -- No criticism or dissent intended, .
I wasn't referring to you, but to the hierarchy that threatened that Aussie sangha, and said they were risking turning people off to the Dharma, a common accusation when someone whistle-blows. That riff was sort of a continuation of my post previous to that.

Follow Up

[www.google.com]

Quote

Lama Choedak Rinpoche apologises - Buddhist ChannelLama Choedak Rinpoche apologises. by FRANCES STEWART, Canberra Times
, 1 May, 2011. Canberra, Australia -- THE HEAD of Canberra's Tibetan ...
www.buddhistchannel.tv/index.php?id=49,10104,0,0,1,0 - 19k - Cached - Similar pages


A godless lot, just don't tell the Jedis - Canberra TimesJun 22, 2012 ... Canberra Times; Classifieds. Place An Ad · Search ... Lama Choedak Rinpoche,
of the Buddhist Society of Canberra. Photo: Rohan Thomson ...
www.canberratimes.com.au/.../a-godless-lot-just-dont-tell-the-jedis-20120621 -20r7p.html - Similar pages


VENERABLE TENPA BEJANKE DUIM interviewShe is one in a group who recently reported to the Canberra Times the unethical
behaviour of a highly respected teacher named Lama Choedak. The founder ...
www.nondualitymagazine.org/nonduality_magazine.4.tenpabejankeduim. interview.htm - 264k - Cached - Similar pages


The Dharma Activities of HH Sakya TrizinEmma Dolma Yuthok, Lama Choedak Rinpoche's daughter, has been .... The
Canberra Times interviewed Lama Choedak Rinpoche about the results of this ...
hosted.verticalresponse.com/518813/07f07ebacf/.../aa1c8afc3d/ - 47k - Cached - Similar pages


I visited a Meditation centre today where the teacher claims he 'IS' a ...The women were also able to provide documents to the Sunday Canberra Times
that showed complaints about Lama Choedak's conduct were met with stern ...
newbuddhist.com/discussion/11165/i-visited-a...the.../p2 - 48k - Cached - Similar pages


FORUMOSA • Tibetan Buddhism is not Buddhism; Lamas are not Buddhists.... the Canberra Times (May 1, 2011) the unethical behaviour of a highly
respected teacher named Lama Choedak, a Rinpoche, (precious one) ...
www.forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.php?f=121&t... - 72k - Cached - Similar pages


YouTubeThe allegations that the head of Canberra's Tibetan Buddhist community Lama
Choedak had sexual relationships with several ... Canberra Times 1/May/11 ...
www.youtube.com/all_comments?v=Efblggixy1A&page=2 - Similar pages


How western Buddhism has changed in 50 years – article - Page 7 ...Then there is Lama Choedak Rinpoche and his abuses, by Frances Stewart,
Canberra Times, 1 May, 2011. Also Lama Admits that Sex in ...
www.thebigview.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8159&page=7 - 89k - Cached - Similar pages


Canberra times... | FacebookCanberra times report today featuring Lama Choedak Rinpoche - The report
details how according to the latest released census the number of Buddhists
living ...
www.facebook.com/sakyalosalchoedzong/posts/375725465813924 - 30k - Cached - Similar pages


The Canberra Times : CHRONICLE 16.10.12, Page 38Oct 16, 2012 ... The Canberra Times : CHRONICLE 16.10.12 ... Buddhism in a Nutshell with
Lama Choedak Rinpoche Thursdays, 7.00pm -- 9.00pm 25 ...
canberra.realviewtechnologies.com/?iid=69330&startpage=page0000038 - Similar pages

This thread listed Kalu R, Sogyal R, Lama Choedak (Sakya)

To that list of controversial lamas or groups can be added Ole Nydahl (Kagu)

Chogyam Trungpa and his successor, Osel or Ozel Tenzin(Kagyu/Ri-Med)

Catherine Burroughs (Jetsunma Akhon Lahmo)(Palyul Nyingma)

Michael Roach (obtained derivative legitimacy from the Gelukpa, now disowned by them)

New Kadampa Tradition (NKP)

A discussion here on a Formosan venue goes into quite interesting directions.

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Tibetan Buddhism is not Buddhism; Lamas are not Buddhists.


690 posts • Page 13 of 69 • 1 ... 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16 ... 69
Re: Tibetan Buddhism is not Buddhism; Lamas are not Buddhists.
Postby Tantrismuskritik » Fri, 09 Sep 2011 15:12

Buddhism wrote:Do you know so many inside stories about Tibetan “Buddhism”


There are some reports if you google:

1. The Canadian documentary film: In the Name of Enlightenment
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sj4ALQej ... re=related)
A Buddhist Master (Sogyal Rinpoche) beloved by millions uses his position and authority to take advantage of young women. For over three decades, complaints are dismissed as the grumblings of the uninitiated. A Guru focused on his own pleasure turns the path to enlightenment into the road to sexual servitude.

2. The Austrilian Victim Venerable Tenpa Bejanke
(http://www.nondualitymagazine.org/nondu ... rview.html)
She is one of the women who recently reported to the Canberra Times (May 1, 2011) the unethical behaviour of a highly respected teacher named Lama Choedak, a Rinpoche, (precious one) the Spiritual Director of SLCD and the founder of Sakya International Buddhist Academy.

3. The English journalist Mary Finnigan: Lama sex abuse claims call Buddhist taboos into question
(http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... e-buddhist)
Samuel says that although this arcane version of sacred sex is present in Tibetan Buddhist scriptures, it should not be confused with the modern neo-tantra movement and nor is it appropriate for recent converts to Buddhism."People should have a health warning" he says. "An elderly guru seducing a young woman probably isn't doing it to assist her towards enlightenment."

Reports from Canada, Austrilia and England. All over the world.
Tantrismuskritik
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Re: Tibetan Buddhism is not Buddhism; Lamas are not Buddhists.
Postby Fortigurn » Fri, 09 Sep 2011 15:13

I see this is going well. Carry on folks. :)
Hiking gear.
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Re: Tibetan Buddhism is not Buddhism; Lamas are not Buddhists.
Postby Isha » Fri, 09 Sep 2011 15:20

Tantrismuskritik wrote:
Buddhism wrote:Do you know so many inside stories about Tibetan “Buddhism”


There are some reports if you google:

Reports from Canada, Austrilia and England. All over the world.


Three countries make the world :doh: I thought we have close to 200 countries. What about local buddhist leaders? are they all pious to the core? how about digging local newspapers?
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Re: Tibetan Buddhism is not Buddhism; Lamas are not Buddhists.
Postby Tantrismuskritik » Fri, 09 Sep 2011 15:37

Isha, how about reading these information? These information are more worthy to read than my poor expressing.

1. The Canadian documentary film: In the Name of Enlightenment
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sj4ALQej ... re=related)
A Buddhist Master (Sogyal Rinpoche) beloved by millions uses his position and authority to take advantage of young women. For over three decades, complaints are dismissed as the grumblings of the uninitiated. A Guru focused on his own pleasure turns the path to enlightenment into the road to sexual servitude.

2. The Austrilian Victim Venerable Tenpa Bejanke
(http://www.nondualitymagazine.org/nondu ... rview.html)
She is one of the women who recently reported to the Canberra Times (May 1, 2011) the unethical behaviour of a highly respected teacher named Lama Choedak, a Rinpoche, (precious one) the Spiritual Director of SLCD and the founder of Sakya International Buddhist Academy.

3. The English journalist Mary Finnigan: Lama sex abuse claims call Buddhist taboos into question
(http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... e-buddhist)

Quote

Samuel says that although this arcane version of sacred sex is present in Tibetan Buddhist scriptures, it should not be confused with the modern neo-tantra movement and nor is it appropriate for recent converts to Buddhism.

"People should have a health warning" he says. "An elderly guru seducing a young woman probably isn't doing it to assist her towards enlightenment."

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Re: Tibetan Buddhism is not Buddhism; Lamas are not Buddhists.
Postby adikarmika » Fri, 09 Sep 2011 16:55

Tantrismuskritik wrote:Isha, how about reading these information? These information are more worthy to read than my poor expressing.

1. The Canadian documentary film: In the Name of Enlightenment
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sj4ALQej ... re=related)
A Buddhist Master (Sogyal Rinpoche) beloved by millions uses his position and authority to take advantage of young women. For over three decades, complaints are dismissed as the grumblings of the uninitiated. A Guru focused on his own pleasure turns the path to enlightenment into the road to sexual servitude.

2. The Austrilian Victim Venerable Tenpa Bejanke
(http://www.nondualitymagazine.org/nondu ... rview.html)
She is one of the women who recently reported to the Canberra Times (May 1, 2011) the unethical behaviour of a highly respected teacher named Lama Choedak, a Rinpoche, (precious one) the Spiritual Director of SLCD and the founder of Sakya International Buddhist Academy.

3. The English journalist Mary Finnigan: Lama sex abuse claims call Buddhist taboos into question
(http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... e-buddhist)
Samuel says that although this arcane version of sacred sex is present in Tibetan Buddhist scriptures, it should not be confused with the modern neo-tantra movement and nor is it appropriate for recent converts to Buddhism."People should have a health warning" he says. "An elderly guru seducing a young woman probably isn't doing it to assist her towards enlightenment."



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Thanks for your question which provides me chance to make some more complements.

I myself didn't see the connection between Tantric ritual sex and Tibetan Buddhism. Yet, ritual abuse of lamas breaks out in Taiwan yearly. Due to my Germanic language ability, I decided to google and read some books of German researchers like Trimondi, Colin Goldner etc. Nearly I read a few English reports on website, too.

I made some thoughts:

1. Why ritual abuse of lamas in my land and others? All accidental?

2. What is the truth of Tibetan Buddhism? It looks out Buddhist. But there is also opposite voice against it.

3. What is the information of the Western insiders of Tibetan Buddhism? A few of it as:

(1) June Campbell, the Scottish philosopher of religion, worked as a translator for Tibetan lamas (ex. Kalu Rinpoche, whose "secret sexual consort" she became), reveals her sexual sacrifice with her book “Traveller in Space: In Search of Female Identity in Tibetan Buddhism.” (Traveller in Space：空行母, the sex partner of lamas.) (http://www.amazon.com/Traveller-Space-I ... 0807614068)

(2) Mary Finnigan, a British journalist and Buddhist, said she has been compiling a dossier on Rinpoche for 16 years because she regrets helping him to launch his career in London. “Sogyal’s promiscuity was obvious to every one in the mid-1970s in the Buddhist community and that’s what he has been doing systematically ever since,” she said. “But he puts on a good show. He offers people a dumbed-down version of Buddhism which appeals to people who want a quick fix.” She writes column of Buddhist critiques now for newspaper (http://www.guardian.co.uk/profile/mary-finnigan).

(3) Victor Trimondi, a German cultural critical author, supported Dalai Lama in the 80s, organized several international congresses and published books about him. After realizing the two faces of DL, he didn't follow him any more, and writes books as “The Shadow of Dalai Lama: Sexuality, Magic and Politics in Tibetan Buddhism” (http://www.iivs.de/~iivs01311/SDLE/Index.htm) which reveal the hidden side of Tibetan Buddhism.

(4) Colin Goldner, a German psychiatrist, worked in India, Nepal, China since 1980. In order to write books about Tibetan Buddhism, he also visited Tibet for several times. He has a psychiatric organitation in Munich now. Some of his patients are Maha Mudra (空行母、明妃). His book: Dalai Lama - Fall eines Gottkönigs (http://www.gottkoenig.de/?q=taxonomy/term/2).


Some reports of Western newspaper show also the other side of Tibetan Buddhism which I did not know. After reading these Western researches and reports, I becam more and more clear what the true color of Tibetan Buddhism is.
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Dear Adikarmika,

there have many Buddhism fraud around Taiwan, the latest case occurred on ( from liberty time ) 2011/8/16 from Taichung " 萬佛寺", the briefing of the story is the nun barrow money from believers for restore the temple, if the believers doubt about the where the money go and ask for return, the nun said it's is felony to say so and will go to hell ( very very deep one). There have about NTD 280,000,000 liquidity from 6 different accounts.

Anyone, who use religion to gain personal favor, is not allow in modern society. For the Buddhism thought, it is even worse because life is endless and they need to pay for it with amount itself plus interests.

The connection between Tibetan Buddhism is not Buddhism for sexual assault... bad apples, I need to refer to "Tsongkhapa", what he wrote and one thousand years ago. It is in the book he writes
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Re: Tibetan Buddhism is not Buddhism; Lamas are not Buddhists.
Postby urodacus » Sat, 10 Sep 2011 3:36

But sex is great! Get it any way you can, folks, because eventually you won't get any more.

any religion that denies that is futile.
The prizes are a bottle of f*!@#$% SCOTCH and a box of cheap f!@#$#$ CIGARS!
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