Quote
csp
Tolle, and others promoting mindfulness, are not advocating killing the ego. It is our identification as "being" our ego that he and others are speaking about. Identifying only with the ego and not the ground of being behind the ego. As he would put it ... identifying with the "form" or "dream". Identifying too strongly (or at all) with the form means that we are always embroiled in the world of ever-changing phenomenon and cannot attain/maintain balance ... or as Buddha would say ... walk the middle way.

Also ... a number of posts back it was stated that Krishnamurti realized in the end he was (himself) a sham. That is incorrect. In the end Krishnamurti sadly realized that no one (or not many) understood him.

This is exactly what I was trying to say earlier and it just seems no one wants to address the issue but, rather, define or correct the misleading statements made about people like Tolle and/or Krishnamurti in order to support their negative opinions about these people. Actually, "destruction of the ego" is viewed as a very incorrect way of looking at non-dualist philosophy by most of the non-dualist teachers who's material I have read through. People are quoting Tolle as using the phrase "destruction of the ego" yet no one has actually been able to provide and evidence that he promotes this in any way. I was flipping through one of his books last night and couldn't find this terminology anywhere.

You "ego" IS your imagination. It cannot be anything else. Does it have a real basis in things that have happened to you? Of course it does. Are you those things? Not really but your ego and the things that have happened to you influence how most of us behave on a daily basis. But, in reality, it is little more than a dream and you can see that because it's right in front of you. The "ego" is a collection of thoughts put together like a scrapbook and saved in order to create a mental picture of who we are but it is still nothing more than a collection of things remembered and imagined. This is so easy to see that I'm surprised we people are still arguing about it.

a few other silly things about ET...

-Parenting: what does ET know about that? Are mothers are parents really going to take his drivel as having any value in parenting? But oh, I forgot, ET knows everything about everything.

-Love: what does ET know about love? Nadda. What is this guys problem? Was he never loved or hugged as a child? Seriously, the guy obviously has some issues around intimacy! He should maybe get some therapy, and spend less time in the La La Land of his imagination. You see, the guy is such a hyper-pseudo-intellectual, he cannot even feel a basic, normal human emotion, without analyzing it with his Egoic mind!! Talk about irony. Maybe Tolle should take his own advice first.

- Pain-body: that is his biggest fraud. There is no such thingy as a pain-body. Its a complete mental fiction dreamed up by Tolle's Egoic Mind. Where in psychology or science does it talk about a pain-body in various theories of human emotion? There are many theories of human emotion. I think some ofthe best talk about how each emotion served human's evolution in more primitive environments. There is no such thing as a pain-body. Just a figment of Tolle's mind...a nominalization he either created or stole from someone else.

- Notice how the future put forward by Tolle is bizarre? Talking about people living on the margins of society, etc. Notice how the book is open-ended, thus he can put out more and more books, and hook you into his Guru system?

Guru's like him have been screaming about New Earth's for thousands of years...guess what. Same old earth. The irony is these folks are NOT wise. Wisdom would be to accept reality for what it is, and also work to improve parts that can be improved. But wisdom is not good enough for these guys, hard to sell that.

Eckhart Tolle has just set up a type of New Age cult of personality, and he is the Yuppie New Age Guru getting very rich by promising a Happiness that never comes in a sustainable way.
Its funny how he does mention Ram Dass one time...everything Tolle said was said more clearly by Ram Dass, and a zillion other people in the past.

Why is Oprah shoving this down people's throats?
Why are people buying into it?
It appears that Tolle IS everything he is preaching against! Arrogant, Egotistical, greedy, vain, overly-intellectual, emotionally crippled...

Isn't it strange how the most messed up people often become these "Guru's"?
I think its because most "normal" people cannot do the things these Guru's do, like fabricate, lie, manipulate, self-promote, and have the extreme arrogance to pretend they have the universe figured out.

The highest sign of enlightenment should be Humility in the face of reality.
But Tolle clearly believes himself to literally be the New Christ...the Second Coming. That is very clear by the end of the book, he thinks he is a channel for the 2nd Coming of You Know Who...

happened to read a review of Tolle (below). Its done by a Christian, and I happen to disagree with much of what this guy says...BUT, he is at least intellectually honest!
But he does show how Tolle is promoting his own type of New Age Religion. As a matter of fact, Tolle could be classified as a New Age Fundamentalist. Why? Because Tolle pretends his ideas are not just his belief system, but that they are THE TRUTH. Tolle has just cobbled together a buch of New Age style beliefs, and pretends its The Truth.
Tolle is laughably WRONG when he talks about anything to do with science or evolution.
And it appears he is just as wrong when he talks about early religion.

All Tolle is doing is putting forward his own brand of new age religion, to give his followers a feeling of "certainty" in their conscious minds.
So either he is clueless, or he is self-consciously lying when he tries to pretend he is not putting forward a system of beliefs for his followers to believe. I happen to think its the latter.
Eckhart Tolle appears to believe he is intellectually superior to "the masses" so he probably feels he has to write a dumbed-down version full of Illusions.

That is what you and I call lying.
Its all pretty transparent and shallow.


-----------------------
Random Reflections - Greg Boyd
Eckhart Tolle’s "A New Earth" Book Review
[gregboyd.blogspot.com]

To whom it may concern:

Posting insults on the board would fit well within the "flaming," which is against the rules.

Flames will not be approved and passed through.

Repeated flames will result in that member being banned from the board.

I find it very interesting all the people attacking Eckhart Tolle for basically saying that we should die to "self" or own ego and live in the Spirit of God. I mean, even Oprah is being attacked, but of course all she does is open up an orphanage for young girls, so of course she is one evil lady. I mean, come on, what a wacky idea of helping orphans- wacky I tell you.

Wow, sure sounds like Eckhart Tolle is a bad evil dude to me. But hey, the "religious" leaders of the day were the ones who wanted Jesus killed since he was so new age, teaching the same things. Wasn't it Jesus who confused the traditional Religious leaders who tried to "gotha" him with all their rules.

Like today, the "church" doesn't want to hear about love and forgiveness. We want judgment, hate , condemnation and wars where we can kill those bad people over there, and not deal with our own sins in us and in America. Case in point, it is illegal to have an abortion in Iran, but legal in America, and we call them evil?

I believe that if Jesus came back again today, Rick Ross would have a new popular forum called, "The Cult of this Second Coming Jesus Guy". The more things change, the more they stay the same. A true Prophet is NEVER accepted in his time.

neocon:

So your point is Tolle is "Jesus" or a "prophet"?

Please try to stay on topic or start a new thread.

Its interesting how Eckhart Tolle is using the same methods, and following the same path as every other New Age culty leader.

The comment above tries to connect Oprah's giving away of money, to her crappy thinking? There is not a connection. She might be a generous person, but that does not mean she knows what she is talking about in these areas. It appears this week Oprah is doing an hour with Tom Cruise, with Cruise trying to clean-up his image again. Oprah has no problem with Scientology either, that is very clear.

And Eckhart Tolle is misleading people. He is telling people to NOT TRUST their own thinking and their own minds, and to trust HIS mind.
He tells them to make their future goals NOT about themselves. But notice how Tolle's website is full of devotional pictures of him, like every other Guru. His goals are all about ET! But yours can't be about you.
Wakeup! He is running the EXACT same pattern as these other New Age culty Gurus.
The guy is telling people to turn away from their Self and Mind, and that is going to lead to disaster, depression and misery for people.
Then guess what? They get more miserable, and they turn to Tolle for more books and DVD's, and more Tolle-brainwashing weekly meetings, etc. He really is trying to create a new type of Eckhart Tolle New Age culty group centered around himself, for the money, and his own Vanity.
You have to be able to see Tolle's intellectual arrogance in his books???? Its dripping with his arrogance.

It reminds one of those senators running around criticizing homosexuals, and then they get busted in a public washroom soliciting sex.

Tolle is running around attacking the "mind" when in reality that is what he is all about!
He is a pseudo-intellectual egomaniac with delusions of personal grandeur. He clearly thinks he is the GREATEST SPIRITUAL LEADER IN HISTORY, equal to Jesus, Buddha, etc.
The guy is pathological.
But it does makes sense...Tolle wanted to be a "Great Intellectual" like he saw in the textbooks, but he flunked out, maybe for mental health reasons. But he was smart enough to go into the New Age area, and there his intellectual skills made him stand out. So now he gets to be a "Great Intellectual" in the New Age area, but he only gets to do it by decrying the "mind" using the "mind".
So instead of being like Bertrand Russell and being world famous for being an intellectual...Eckhart Tolle gets to do basically the exact same thing, but just in the New Age area...write books, give talks, act like a "teacher". But he gets to take it further, and become a Guru...the Power is intoxicating..



And is Oprah honest?
Is Eckhart Tolle honest?

For example, they both say that what Tolle is preaching is NOT a religion and is totally compatible with conventional Christianity.
That is FALSE.
That is a DECEPTION.

If Tolle and Oprah were HONEST, they would say..."hey, we think the bible-thumpers need to open their minds more, and think more metaphorically, so this is why we are doing this".
But do they do that?
No.
They try to PRETEND that the ideas of Eckhart Tolle are OK with bible-based Christianity.
They are NOT. They directly conflict.

Tolle is literally reinterpreting Christianity in his own image.
And Oprah wants to do that as well, so she tries to get away with it by saying it does not conflict.
That is NOT intellectually honest.

But those folks are very skilled in the Arts of Persuasion, so to them its ok to persuade people in that manner.
Another person would call it being dishonest.

Anyone who would say what Tolle is teaching is OK with bible-based christianity is either clueless, or is not being honest.
Its obvious Oprah is trying to use these New Age ideas to try to persuade and soften-up the some of rigid US based bible-based Christians.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2008 03:44AM by The Anticult.

Oprah may be claiming that the beliefs she is pushing are in harmony with Christianity, but I don't think all Christians would necessarily agree with her. My brother and sister in law sent me an e-mail a couple of months ago in which they expressed great concern about what Oprah is teaching and how they felt it conflicted with what the Bible says.

I don't want to get into a discussion of promoting the Christian religion here, I know that is not the purpose of this board. However, I just wanted to illustrate the point that some Christians would disagree with Oprah's assessment. I am only providing the links to illustrate that point, not to promote a religion. The following websites do not reflect my own personal belief system, nor do I endorse the belief system reflected there. I merely found it interesting that this is what some Christians are saying about Oprah and her spiritual practices and promotions at the moment.

[www.carringtonsteele.citymax.com]

[www.coffeeswirls.com]

[oprahsgospel.wordpress.com]

I actually think the bible-based Christians are more intellectually honest than either Oprah or Tolle!!
They are at least being honest in what they believe, right or wrong or crazy.

But Oprah and Tolle are both saying that Tolle's ideas are OK with conventional Christianity...which they are NOT.

Its like saying the Moonies are also Christian, in a similar way.
Or that Islam and Christianity and Judaism are OK with eachother as they all came from the bible!

The New Thought idea of the "Christ Consciousness" is not the idea of being meek and generous and self-effacing. That is the older idea of being "Christlike".
But you see how those like Oprah use the term to be "Christlike" to make people THINK she means just be humble and forgiving, etc.
But that is NOT what they mean.

They mean you are becoming LIKE Christ...like...doing Miracles just like he did.
You are EQUAL to Christ.

That ain't the same thing. (and Tolle is not teaching New Thought either, sort of a mesh of ideas).

So what Oprah is doing with Tolle, is trying to "reform" conventional bible-based US Christianity, into a more metaphorical, and New Thought and Gnostic idea.
But notice how they try to do it?

With DECEPTION.
If they were honest, they might say..."hey, we are trying to reprogram your religious beliefs".
But they don't.
They say bible-based Christianity is OK with Tolle and New Thought.
No it ain't!
As a matter of fact, its "blasphemy" what they are teaching according to theology.

At least be HONEST about your dang beliefs!
If you are going to try to reform Christianity, and replace it, then why not be honest?

Why?
Because it doesn't work.
If you tell them that, they turn off the TV. But tell them..."hey, its ok, its ok with Christianity"...thenthey buy the book, and get Persuaded.
So its persuasion, its deception.

Why not just be honest and truthful? Because they know it does not work, people shut-down.
So they have to be tricked and deceived "for their own good".
Heard that one before?

I learned more about dying to my own self by reading Eckhart Tolle than I did by going to church every Sunday for 20 years.

My walk with Jesus is so much closer now that I better understand how many of us (including myself) "think" we are doing God's will, but in reality are living in the ego- NOT in the Spirit. I mean if you ask Kenneth Copeland if he is doing God's work by having not one, but two $20million dollar Citation X business Jets, he will say, Yes I am!

If you ask George Bush if he is following Jesus by going to war against a country that did NOTHING to America, he will say, yes I am.

I could go on and on. All those Preachers on TV that tell you that if you are a real Christian than God will bless you with money- just be sure to send your seed faith gift first. Oh, and last time I checked, Eckhart Tolle made his income by people wanting to buy his books, including me. He didn't go begging for money like most Christian ministries do.

Many say Lord, Lord. But in reality, these people have Jesus in their MIND, not in their hearts.

That's the point Eckhart Tolle is making. To get out of the mind and be guided by the Spirit of God. I find nothing evil with that, in fact I find it refreshing that it's not Jesus Give me this, and Jesus bless me and my country and thank God I'm not a sinner like those other bad people. Tolle tells us to deal with our own ego, which was the same message Jesus gave when he walked the Earth. And like today, the church wants nothing do to with him.