csp:

You are very close to being banned.

Some of your posts that were not approved were little more than personal attacks and often redundant/repetitive.

Seems like you have "run out of gas."

FYI--a belief that "the ego" is the "root of evil" is a typical statement used by cult leaders to rationalize attacking an individual's thinking in an effort to gain undue influence.

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csp
No need to study Krishnamurti first ... I was just using him as a comparison in teachings.

I was not asking whether you felt there is a need to study Krishnamurti first or not... Go back and read my posts again. I have a feeling you´re not really paying attention to what is being written, or, you are intentionally misunderstanding the things written? Is that how you listen to Tolle too? As far as your Tolle-interpretation goes, you seem to have missed great deal of what he is actually talking about. Wishful thinking or deep trance, could be possible reasons for your lack of factual knowledge. But it is of course designed that way, you are supposed to be in a trance when listening to Tolle. And silence the inner voice. It is not designed to be understood, it is designed to be followed, when hearing his voice (or seeing his face) etc. You make an excellent example if this confusion in action.

like this:

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csp
I don't know if I would use the same term/phrase as Tolle regarding the ego (e.g. root of all evil), but he isn't far off the mark in his fundamental assessment.

That is called: Being Artfully Vague. So you do believe that the "Ego" is the "source" of all evil?


Tjena/ Chris

Tjena/ Chris:

Its nice to see someone who has obviously studied some of the hypnosis material, in regards to being Artfully Vague, etc.

Byron Katie does her own very powerful variant of Ericksonian Hypnosis, but literally using it against people in a highly destructive way to suit her own purposes.
Much of it is explained in this other thread. She even does the Handshake Induction on people, and uses all sorts of deep metaphors for Mind-Washing.

Byron Katie, hypnosis, Milton Erickson Handshake Induction, NLP
[forum.culteducation.com]

Eckhart Tolle is a big supporter of Byron Katie, as they are really doing something very similar. And they both have a bogus scripted past life history that appears to be uncheckable.
Byron Katie latched onto Tolle as well, due to Oprah.

They both know what eachother are doing, they are just doing it in their own way.

just as a counterpoint to the extremely unhelpful books by Eckhart Tolle...

there is an emerging method called MBCT, Mindfulness Based Cognitive Therapy.
It is being tested in clinical trials, and developed by a number of people, combining knowledge from Cognitive Therapy with Mindfulness. It seems like a good idea, and might be worth looking into.
A recent book that just arrived for review is called...

The Mindful Way through Depression:
by J. Mark G. Williams (Author), John D. Teasdale (Author), Zindel V. Segal (Author), Jon Kabat-Zinn (Author)
[www.amazon.com]

(the book has a CD in it with specific guided exercises, and that CD is up on the torrent networks)

What is different about this type of book, is that it has specific exercises that can be tested, and 8 week program, and its researched and tested by people who are actually working in the field.
This type of thing MIGHT actually help people, the studies so far are positive.
The results can be measured.

Notice the ugly and glaring contrast with Eckhart Tolle, who when compared alongside MBCT, really does appear like a New Age personality cult leader out to confuse people, and exploit their pain for profit.
I bet that Eckhart Tolles books make people MORE depressed over a period of time, even creating depression in people, and worse. That could be figured out with clinical trials.
Notice how Eckhart Tolle has never submitted his methods to scientific trials at all?

Eckhart Tolle is Antiscience, and antipsychology, and against cognitive science and everything else going on in the world today in the advancement of human knowledge.
Oprah should be ashamed of her abysmal ignorance in this area.

Thanks Anticult, for looking into these issues, I think it´s extremely important.
I am not too familiar with Byron Katie. I was given a book a long time ago but I never got to reading it. I will take a look at her material. She obviously has studied NLP, like most succesful sales-people. I have seen too many people manipulating their client without giving them the proper tools. They work their "magic" and the client feels better for a while. But without the tools or insights they will bounce right back to their previous state. Without being any wiser. Often with a worsening effect. Until you "join-the-circus" and buy more, more and more...

Mindfulness Based Cognitive Therapy is, from what I understand, a very helpful resource, it gives you the chance to learn how to operate your brain. On your own.

Ericksonian hypnosis and NLP are extremely effective and powerful techniques, covertly used they can perform "magic". If you have studied NLP you know you can really "fuck someone up" if you do it wrong..

Tolles teachings is a joke to anyone with a serious intention of healing. His talks and seminars are 100% hypnotic commands, disguised as an "enlightening seminar". And he is very "good" and effective at it too. I can understand why he gets to sell all those books, Cd´s and DVD´s. His followers need more...

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The Anticult
I bet that Eckhart Tolles books make people MORE depressed over a period of time, even creating depression in people, and worse.

I think so too. And I have seen it happen to a number of friends. Detached from life, they felt they were not allowed to feel happy, beautiful, worthy etc. Not allowed to react.. ´Cause it was their Ego and they were told not to follow it, just ignore it and turn it off.... Otherwise they were evil... Confusion.

Something is very wrong with Tolle/Katie...

Tjena / Chris

Anyone who has studied NLP can instantly see that Byron Katie is doing a lot of NLP and hypnotic techniques, in her own style.
But what will blow your mind if you look into her, is that she is one of the most deceptive liars ever to come out of the NLP field, and that is saying a lot.
Byron Katie denies knowing anything about NLP, and says she became Enlightened by magic one-day in a half-way house when a cockroach spoke with her, or whatever. A complete bald-faced fabricated Past-History Story. (much like Eckhart Tolle, they just design a "good story" to sell to the public).

But Byron Katie was smart enough to go into New Agey spiritual-psychotherapy stuff, where her audience has never even heard of NLP, so she can get away with it. Of course, if she went into the NLP field she would be laughed offstage as a comedy parody act, until they realized she was not joking.

But even Byron Katie slips up.
For example, I show evidence in that other thread, that Byron Katie is long time personally associated with Stever Robbins, who is a longtime NLPer and who is into Erickonian Hypnosis as well.
(search Google for) : stever robbins byron katie

So its most likely Byron Katie hired Stever Robbins to work with her privately, or something along those lines.
That might sound ok to an NLPer, but its NOT if one looks into Byron Katie, as it exposes that the woman is literally a bald-faced pathological liar, and that would shock her New Age Seekers if they could only see beyond their own Katie-Trance.

Having worked with Richard Bandler personally, and I am convinced even Bandler would be appalled at what Byron Katie is doing to people, and that is saying a lot.
The woman is literally using those tools AGAINST people. She is Changing Past History in people without their awareness.
It is the most flagrant abuse of Ericksonian hypnosis I have studied, due to her vulnerable audience.

And EckhartTolle, while apparently not as sadistic as Byron Katie, is just as manipulative.

They are just common NLP practioner hack-hypnotists and persuaders, but they chose a vulnerable, and naive "spiritual" audience who doesn't ask questions. That is deliberate.
They could not do any of their tricks on an audience educated in NLP and hypnosis...and that is why they target a naive audience of spiritual seekers, as its like taking candy from a baby.

You will be shocked when you find out how Byron Katie uses these tools to get people to hand over their wedding rings to her personally as a "gift", and family heirlooms, and much more.
Even Bandler knows you can get vulnerable people to hand over their wedding rings to you using those tools, but you have to be profoundly sick in the head to do that to soccer moms, its sociopathic, if not worse.

And Oprah is going to promote Byron Katie to hundreds of thousands more naive soccer moms suffering depression and pain, and send them off to the mind slaughterhouse.

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Chris Dalin
I am not too familiar with Byron Katie. I was given a book a long time ago but I never got to reading it. I will take a look at her material. She obviously has studied NLP, like most succesful sales-people. I have seen too many people manipulating their client without giving them the proper tools. They work their "magic" and the client feels better for a while. But without the tools or insights they will bounce right back to their previous state. Without being any wiser. Often with a worsening effect. Until you "join-the-circus" and buy more, more and more... ..

Ericksonian hypnosis and NLP are extremely effective and powerful techniques, covertly used they can perform "magic". If you have studied NLP you know you can really "fuck someone up" if you do it wrong..
Something is very wrong with Tolle/Katie...

Tjena / Chris

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/14/2008 04:45PM by The Anticult.

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The Anticult
Anyone who has studied NLP can instantly see that Byron Katie is doing a lot of NLP and hypnotic techniques, in her own style.

After just watching a few session with Byron Katie I totally agree with you. Her techniques are pure Neuro Linguistic Programming. And Faked compassion.

I watched a heart-breaking session with a woman who was afraid of war.. Byron instructed her hypnotically to blame herself for all the suffering and simply stop being afraid. Do "The Work". It´s just mind-games. She forces them to agree with her on stage. I doubt it will have any at all post-hypnotic effects regarding her fears. And if, god forbid, she would accept Byrons suggestions that "all the suffering is in your head" we will have yet another detached person with lack of empathy walking around in our society, possibly blaming herself for all the worlds suffering. How does that help anyone but the warmongers and Byron Katie?

Being afraid of war is an example of a pretty rational fear I would say. Maybe the fear of war is what has kept this woman alive, and helped others to cope by showing compassion? Who knows? not Byron, thats for sure. There are real ways of dealing with fear, this is not a real way. If she has this sloppy, mind-bending approach to all clients, then I agree, this woman is doing much more harm than good. She seemingly just cant wait to stop hearing the poor womans story so that she can start her "Work"... It is disgusting...

Besides Ericksonian hypnosis, I have a feeling she at least has studied Stephen Brooks in action.

I´ll get back when I have studied more cases, I hope the ones I watched were not typical Byron Katie-sessions... I hope...

Tjena/ Chris

I transfered a reply about the Byron Katie info in the Byron Katie thread.

[forum.culteducation.com]

I wrote the other day that Eckhart Tolle's methods would logically lead to people falling into depression after a period of time, and a new poster has made a comment along these lines. Hopefully they will share more info if they want to.

Eckhart Tolle and depression
[forum.culteducation.com]

I also think a lot of people who would get depression from Eckhart Tolle's methods would blame themselves for it, and get even worse.
Its a mental trap.
The Tolle Trap.