Not everybody gets it right, eh. This description is actually quite the opposite of what Tolle has described in the teaching. Someone who is living in the present would actually be completely engaged with situation, person, activity, etc. A person "not" living in the moment would be disengaged ... living in their mind, past, future, etc. Out of the thousand or maybe millions reading Tolle or Course in Miracles or Zen Buddhism, etc. there are going to be those that don't understand or end up doing something quite different from what is being taught. The Crudaders, Inquisitors, Nazi sympathizers, child abusers, etc. within the Christian church certainly seemed to have misunderstood the teachings of Jesus, eh. However, this does not mean that the teachings of Jesus are wrong. Even Krishnamurti said on this deathbed that he felt very few if nobody really understood he was saying.

Mr. Tolle is not diagnosing anyones thinking. He has analyzed the structure and content of the ego and is passing along his insights and experience. Krishnamurti did this, Jesus did this, Buddha did this, Socrates did this, etc.

Likewise, Mr. John Kanzius (no college degree), has not diagnosed anyones cancer, but he analyzed the mechanism of cancer combined with his experience with radio waves (he was an amateur radio builder) and created a radio wave device that is being tested at M.D. Anderson hospital as a potential "side effect free" cancer treatment and potentially one of the greatest of medical breakthroughs.

csp:

As someone that knows about the "thought reform" techniques used by cults I can see a pattern in your posts here.

You have described how Tolle seeks to influence "thinking."

You also indicate that he is concerned with "one's thoughts, emotions."

Very interesting descriptions of Tolle's goals and ideas.

It seems rather than Tolle taking people from "a conditioned mind to an unconditioned mind." He is actually manipulating the mind to become conditionsed, e.g. change someone's individual perception of reality to match his own.

Also interesting is that whenever someone points out that Tolle had absolutely no credentials or professional standing whatsovever to deal with the human mind, you retreat into the realm of religion.

This would apparently indicate that Tolle has concocted a religiion, which makes more like a preacher than a philosopher, with Oprah as his on-line sponsor and fellow televangelist.

You constantly weave back and forth between at times attempting to appear objective and reliant upon facts, but whenever challenged you retreat into a subjective response based upon faith.

Perhaps your mind had been successfully conditioned by Tolle?

Your posts continue to offer compelling evidence that Tolle is much more like Werner Erhard than Socrates.

Quote: You have described how Tolle seeks to influence "thinking."

Response: Very broad statement. That would include all writers, educators, politicians, etc. who continuosly influence thinking.

Quote: It seems rather than Tolle taking people from "a conditioned mind to an unconditioned mind." He is actually manipulating the mind to become conditioned.

Response: History, culture, religion, education, parents, friends, etc. all help to condition the mind. Tolle, Buddha, Krishnamurti, etc. have all described the experience of an unconditioned mind. It is a very difficult concept to understand unless you have either experienced personally or have some natural insight.

Quote: Also interesting is that whenever someone points out that Tolle had absolutely no credentials or professional standing whatsovever to deal with the human mind, you retreat into the realm of religion.

Response: I used a very good example of Mr. John Kanzius who has no credentials, academic training, etc. in medicine without retreating into religion.

Quote: Perhaps your mind had been successfully conditioned by Tolle?

Response: I'm not a follower of Tolle (I belong to a Gnostic Christian order), but understand what he talking about.

csp:

No, there is a marked difference between education, indoctrination and thought reform, which seems to be what Tolle is doing through his conditioning of the mind.

See [www.culteducation.com]

Clinical psychologist and professor of psychology Margaret Singer makes these distinctions in the above linked chart, which demonstrates that there are gradations of influence.

For someone that's not a "follower of Tolle" you are spending a good deal of time defending him as an apologist on this board.

"Very difficult concept to understand unless you have either experienced personally or have some natural insight"?

Sounds like the apologies offered by Werner Erhard's supporters through est and Landmark Education, i.e. you must "experience" the Forum or you cannot hold an opinion about it.

You don't need to experience "drunk driving" to know it's a bad idea.

And "natural insight" is once again another subjective claim based upon your feelings, not objective facts.

"csp" is clearly working overtime as a Apologist for Eckhart Tolle, and is actually doing many of the same tactics as Tolle, one of them being creating a web of confusing thought distortion.

Eckhart Tolle does this for only one reason.
If Tolle were to have a specific Mindfulness Practice, or whatever, then people learn it, and then never come back! In his early years, he learned he had to keep the Customer coming back, to keep the money coming in.
So he learned and decided to just weave a confusing web of nonsense and contradictions to confuse people, then promise them Enlightenment if they followed ECKHART TOLLE personally. He then records hundreds of hours of CD's and DVD's and he sells thousands of dollars of his endless yacking to people.

As far as hypnosis, that is EXACTLY what Tolle is doing. As a matter of fact, Tolle Tranced-Out rambling, breathy-soft voice, sounds a lot like Warren Jeffs, the Leader of the polygamist cult now in jail. These sort of breathy, soft-spoken, passive sounding speakers can be some of the most manipulative.

"csp" makes a point about someone named Mr. John Kanzius, who is using radio-waves to treat cancer? I have never heard of this guy, but to demonstrate how to think logically, I won't do a Google search yet. But the idea is absurd. Radio waves are electomagnetic radiation with a long-wavelength, and they just go right through the body. So it sounds like Quackery to make a buck off dying people. But that being said, maybe there is something to it...and if so, it can be TESTED very easily using the methods of science.


Meanwhile, nothing that Eckhart Tolle talks about can be tested...its religion, and a personal religion around Eckhart Tolle. Its even a personality cult, due to the fact Tolle has people get together in Silent Groups to listen ONLY to Eckhart Tolle for 90 minutes. That is literally a type of systematic mental conditioning of his followers.

John Kanzius: (a quick look)
[en.wikipedia.org]
As of now, nothing is proven. Its still based on a theory. Clinical trials will show whether or not it works. Its basically based on the theory of killing cancer cells with heat. If the clinical trials fail, and if Kanzius then goes on to sell it anyway, then he is a quack out to make money from desperate people.
Also, the same RFG device seems to affect the Hydogen molecule in water...so its hardly a benign device. It could kill people and cause mutations. It has to be tested scientifically.
As of yet, its just an idea.


Notice how this has NOTHING to do with Eckhart Tolle at all?
Eckhart Tolle is not submitting himself to clinical trials, he just makes CLAIMS without any evidence at all.
Its a new age religion, focussed around the cult of personality of Eckhart Tolle, using mind conditioning techniques of weekly Silent Groups where TALKING is verbotten, and Tolle is selling hundreds of hours of CD's and DVD's.
Tolle has nothing to do with science. What he is doing is Antiscience.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/13/2008 10:40AM by The Anticult.

Excellent point, The Anticult and also, as always, rrmoderator. csp is clearly trying to defend E.T. ("phone home") and is willing to "take one for his/her team" by taking on the Rick Ross community. I think many of these confidence artists and their followers mistake this community for having nothing but naive skeptics with no cult/abusive org/scumbag Tolle personal experiece. Many of us, including myself, have felt the vicous bite of cults on us and our loved ones. We have seen the many false teachers and assholes Eckhart Tolles of the world abuse those we love and make psychotherapy take that many years more to recitify a positive solution.

csp as my old Polish (escaped Hitlar's death camps) Granny would say in her broken English "Sell your brand os crazy to someone else, we are all filled up here!"

Goodluck on your journey through life csp, try to remember, if you continue to blindly follow your mentor, who always walks in front of you, you will be constantly looking at an Assh*le. No disrespect meant to you. Have a heathly, long life.

Thanks Anticult for being clear-minded. It is badly needed i see.


csp, You are simply defending your interpretation of Tolle, based on the things he has "borrowed" from Krishnamurti. That is narrowminded. You need to take a look at Tolles seminars and interviews before you come here defending someone you obviously have not listened to.

Dont you get it? Please read my previous posts with quotes, they are 100% from Tolles own mouth. Why the hell would I make such nonsense up?

How many of Tolles fans do you think have studied Krishnamurti first? And can therefore, like you claim, "misunderstand" Tolles misleading statements?
It´s an assault on the mind.

BTW csp, you agree with Tolle that the "Ego" is the root of all evil in the world?

Quote
Chris Dalin
You need to take a look at Tolles seminars and interviews before you come here defending someone you obviously have not listened to.

How many of Tolles fans do you think have studied Krishnamurti first?

BTW csp, you agree with Tolle that the "Ego" is the root of all evil in the world?

I've read all of Tolle's books and watched about 10 hours of his videos.

No need to study Krishnamurti first ... I was just using him as a comparison in teachings.

I don't know if I would use the same term/phrase as Tolle regarding the ego (e.g. root of all evil), but he isn't far off the mark in his fundamental assessment.