Other than than the statements that Tolle is the most authentic spiritual teacher since Krishnamurti, I tend to agree with the above poster's statements. There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding over Tolle's teachings and philosophy. My guess is that a lot of people here seem to WANT to dislike Tolle and have skewed what he says and claims in order to reach their preconceived notion that he is misleading and lying to people.

The Anicult above doesn't really seem to understand what Tolle is saying and uses a lot of conjecture to support his believe that Tolle is a fraud. Tolle isn't teaching a new age philosophy nor is he talking about getting rid of or destroying the ego per se. Nor is there any evidence whatsoever that mentally disturbed people would be negatively effected by what Tolle teaches and it is very possible that it could actually be very helpful to them in many ways.

The only rational and reasonable people on the Oprah board someone posted the like to appear to be the people who like Tolle's work and claim it has helped them. It's the people, mostly Christians, on that board that appear to have an irrational and unwarranted hatred for the guy and Oprah's support of his book.

Once again, I don't see any reason to believe Tolle is engaging anyone in cult behavior whatsoever. Whatever "cult" has sprung up around him is due to Oprah's promotion of his book and that fact that lots of people seem to really like his message. He puts his books out and people buy them because they choose to and because they think his books are helpful in some way.

I'm not a big fan of Tolle but I think he is harmless and even somewhat authentic. The hatred for him by certain people on this board is based on a lot of irrational fear and misleading information in my opinion. Like him or not, I have decided to defend him here because his detractor's on here are really having a difficult time getting their facts straight and are making a lot of misleading statements about Tolle and his teachings.

Just my opinion.

...FYI, The Anticult is currently reading A NEW EARTH by Tolle.
Thanks for motivating me to post a few comments.
The book just a rambling, wordy, preachy, manipulative screed.

- Tolle says you either "get it" or you don't. What arrogance. Tolle is above criticism? He is above making mistakes? Yes! That is what he thinks. He's an egomaniac.

- Tolle begins his book with completely FALSE statements about Evolution. False. Wrong. Incorrect. He's clueless, he seems to know about as much about it as the fundamentalists.

- His ignorance of Evolution also applies when talking about how Life moved from the sea. He is completely ignorant. Maybe he should read some science books. Can an "enlightened" person be ignorant and arrogant?

- Tolle attacks the "I" constantly, meanwhile, Tolle's Ego is the size of Trumps. Read his drivel about the "I" on page 28. Tolle is preaching the destruction of the Ego...this is due to his own SUICIDAL IMPULSES.

- pg 38: weird story about dying people giving away their posessions, rings, etc. Sounds like a BYRON KATIE deathbed cash-grab.

- Tolle says the "Ego" creates illness...where's the proof for this? He gives none. Just cause he says so. As a matter of fact, there is no evidence that the "Ego" has anything to do with many illnesses. So a child creates its own cancer? Here we go again...you created your cancer through your Stinkin' Thinkin'. Shame on you...

- Tolle misquotes Descartes and Sartre out of context. He is so ARROGANT. He is like a pseudo-intellectual flunkie, who learned how to say a few fancy words to impress New Agers. Its worse than a bad joke. What he says about Sarte is a fraud, straight up. (Tolle also seems to have lied about his past educational experiences).

- page 70, his ARROGANT views about Catholics and "Truth" are beyond laughable. He would flunk a first year philosophy course. And Tolle is of course smarter than the Pope too. He's smarter than everyone on earth combined. He's the Savior of the Earth, of a New Earth, that's right!

pg 79: Tolle tells us WHAT JESUS MEANT. How the fuck does Tolle know what "Jesus" really "meant". What a FRAUD. Tolle is a fraud. First off, Jesus did not write anything, those are all texts from generations later, written in a different language. So for Tolle to say "what Jesus meant" is a fraud. Its a complete fabrication.

It just goes on and on.

He hints there were other Masters inhistory, and implies he knows them? That is cult manipulation 101...implying he has Secret Knowledge.

Eckhart Tolle is an extremely arrogant pseudo-intellectual flunky, who impresses the New Agers with a few intellectual tricks and name-dropping. He is a serious businessman, who made a fortune even before Oprah.

The man is a FRAUD.
He is NOT enlightened.
His "story" is exaggerated and fabricated, vague, and sprinkled with lies.
He has stolen ideas from 50 places, and gives no refererences. That is intellectual FRAUD.

He is a spiritual fraud, and a psychological fraud, and an intellectual fraud.
He is a manipulative writer, luring people into his cult of personality to buy his stuff. $$$$
He is upselling his other books, and has many other products and services for sale.

Do you really think an "Enlightened" person would be such a huckster? And so pretentious and ARROGANT? God, his material just drips with arrogance and egomania.
If a person were "enlightened" the first thing they should probably have is some humility in the face of the universe. But Tolle is so extremely arrogant, he thinks he's figured out the history of the world, and the future of the earth, and everything else.
And (some) people just buy it hook, line, and sinker.

Just being "detached" is not being "enlightened". That is called Schizoidal personality disorder.

Either Oprah just think his pablum will sell to the masses, as a first step in her online "classes", or Oprah is not too bright in this area.
Oprah is a great TV presenter, and a great entrepreneur and salesperson, and seems to give a lot of money away. Fine.
But in terms if intellectual topics along these lines...she really is the blind leading the blind.

Tolle is a fraud.
Put Tolle on TV with some proper intellectuals and philosophers and he will crumble like a house of cards, and retreat into spiritual arrogance.
Its a shame people are so easily deceived.

As far as Krishnamurti...by the end, he actually realized he WAS a fraud! He admitted it, his followers tried to project on him all of their stuff, but in the end, he realized he was a fraud.

Don't get duped by these folks claiming they are Enlightened, and will sell you that for a dollar, or ten thousand dollars, then bamboozle you with bullshit.

Tolle is a fraud, in a number of ways, except for salesmanship.
Just wait...the facts will come out on this guy sooner or later. He can't hide everything forever.



PS: people are going to learn a harsh lesson. They will buy all his books, CD's, DVD's...spend hundreds and thousands, get flipped over to other cultic Gurus like Byron Katie from Tolle...and they will get WORSE AND WORSE. Their lives and functioning will decrease if they buy into his stolen ideas. People will get thrown off-course for 10 years of their lives....



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/28/2008 03:59PM by The Anticult.

Just because you don't like the guy and/or what he has to say doesn't make him a cult leader or even a fraud.

-So anyone who refers to Jesus or tries to interpret what the saying some people attribute to him mean is also a fraud?

-Tolle is fraud because he claims that the 'ego' cause illness? If the 'ego' causes stress, which it probably does, then it also causes or creates illness. You don't have to be a genius to figure this out and I'm sure there are actually plenty of facts that support the theory of stress causing illness.

-What he says about Sartre is a fraud straight up? Like what?

-Tolle "seems to have lied" about his education past? As far as I can tell, he either lied or he didn't. Maybe he lied and maybe he didn't lie but it just seems like he did to you because it helps give you negative opinion of him credibility without having to offer us any evidence of Tolle actually lying about his education.

-You claim to know that Tolle's "destruction of the ego" stems from his suicidal impulses. Do you know this for a fact? Does Tolle even use the phrase "destruction of the ego"? I have not read the book and am curious.

-Where does Tolle claim to be smarter than every on the earth combined. I've never heard him say that yet it appears it must be in this new book of his.

-J. Krishnamurti realized he was a fraud? What are you talking about? You talk about presenting facts and about other people misrepresenting what people say out of context but you don't seem to mind doing it yourself in order to further your arguments.

-You say that the facts will come out on him sooner or later, just wait? So basically you are saying that you don't have any facts but, rather, since you are certain he is a fraud there must be facts that nobody knows about that are going to found out about at some later date? Who is the fortune teller here?

Summary:

At the very best, Tolle may just have come across some unusual understanding that one might call "enlightenment". At the very worse, he's a shrewd business man who is not enlightened but makes money by selling people something that makes them feel better. No facts are presented that would, as far as I can tell, put him into the category of "cult leader". Fraud? Maybe, but that is only a matter of opinion. He is not my cup of tea but I wouldn't, from reading and listening to him, necessarily call him a fraud.

Personally, I don't want to debate you since you have offered nothing but page references to a book that I have no intentions of purchasing. The only reason I'm sticking up for him is because the negative opinions about him on this thread appear to be based on an irrational hatred for the guy and his "pseudo-intellectual" philosophy. Either way, I don't even know how to go about debating someone who uses a "page 79 of some book you haven't read, (insert ad hominem attack instead of facts)" style of argument. If you hate the guy so much then why did you spend money on his book? Are you one of those 'Skeptics' who go around claiming that all conspiracy theories and 'spiritual teachers' are frauds and based on lies?

Please, give me one example of a spiritual teacher or conspiracy theory that you think is NOT a fraud.

by the way...Tolle's method of 'softening up the Ego' is the exact same technique used by virtually every LGAT group, and every culty group out there.
There are only a very few LGAT's that preach Ego-Power to get you to flip into narcissism.

Most of them preach a version of what Tolle is preaching, to get passive and get your mind to stop having criticial intelligence. Its the exact same technique.
The irony is that they are not doing this to make you "happy" but to passify you. (Tolle is allowed to be an arrogant intellectual, not you).

Psychology has shown that have healthy ego-strength is one of the MOST important things in personal happiness. Self-Efficacy is a core aspect of personal happiness.

Perhaps folks like Oprah and other celebities do need to downsize their "Ego" and stop being egomaniacs, of course that will lead to misery.
But the average person does not have that problem.

Here is the double irony.
First off, Tolle does not properly define the "Ego" as that word can mean almost anything, or nothing.

But these guys say we need to set aside our Ego, and then what?
Then we "let" the universal Christ Consciousness take over?
ok, so you give up your human mental functions, and become a Godhuman?
That is actually being 1000x more of an Egomaniac.

Who is more of an Egomaniac...a Humanist who understands they are a human, or a guy like Tolle, who is preaching "No Self" but means that will turn you into an Enlightened Godhuman?
See the irony, that what they are preaching is MORE Egotistical, even pathological if taken literally.
Its also going to produce more unhappiness over the years.

Just try to live a life of "No Self" along the lines preached here, it leads to disaster.
Also, for people with mental health issues, it can send them over the edge.
Tolle also hints that his methods can fix mental illness, cure cancer, and all the rest of it.

Same old story, same old song and dance, same old methods.
Tolle is running a NewAge personality cult, based on selling you his products.
He claims on his website that being in his presence, is going to have some type of effect on you? Well, that is to get you to lay down the $$$ to go to a live speech of his, so he can pull in 250K fora couple hours of obtuse circular yadda yadda yadda.

PS:
The average person, some "Oprah soccer mom" if you will, who has no experience in these areas, is going to be in for a very rude awakening. Messing around with your Identity and Self and sense of "I" like this is VERY serious business. Do you see any real psychologists doing this to people? Of course not. Some of them teach basic Mindfulness, which is just about learning to be calm, etc.
Why do people allow some crank/nut/weirdo with no history or credentials to try to wreck their Mind, Self, and Personhood? That is the real question.
Why? Beacuase Tolle lies promises them the moon without any proof...he promises eternal Happiness and escape from the pains of life.

But Tolle's method is like cutting off your hands to try and stop overeating.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/29/2008 02:41AM by The Anticult.

Well, it's very difficult to find any testimonials about how "ego death" leading anyone to disaster or sending people with mental health issues over the edge. May I ask why I should take your word, without any evidence to support your theory, over those people with mental health issue who claim that "ego destroying" activities have likely saved their lives?

Maybe you could send us a link so we can read about all the people who's lives have been destroyed by Tolle's books and teachings. I am trying very hard to find evidence supporting the claims you have made but so far I haven't been able to find anything. Maybe I am not putting in the right keywords.

By the way, Mindfulness is not just about learning to be calm. Being able to stay calm may be a direct result of practicing Mindfulness but, make no mistake about it, Mindfulness is nothing more than a disassociation from the ego. Maybe you are not clear as to what Mindfulness exactly is but it's likely that whoever told you it was simply about keeping calm was probably giving you a lot of misinformation.

"left_of_the_dial":

Have you read this entire thread? I must admit, I haven't done so myself recently, but I'll get to it when I can. I did, however, read this account on this thread, which you might find interesting:



It may be possible, too, that people here, when they use the word "ego", have different definitions of that word in mind. It is very popular in new age circles to demonize the ego. Wayne Dyer, in one of his recent books, stated something to the effect that he had decided his ego should just die, that that would be the best thing.

Tolle has quoted A Course in Miracles in The Power of Now, if memory serves me correctly. ACIM defines 'ego' as "But a dream of what you really are. [ACIM teaches we are but a bad dream in the mind of God, a part of the mind that has split off from God and is having a nightmare.] A thought you are apart from your Creator and a wish to be what He created not. It is a thing of madness, not reality at all. A name for namelessness is all it is. A symbol of impossibility; a choice for options that do not exist. We name it but to help us understand that it is nothing but an ancient thought that what is made has immortality. But what could come of this except a dream which, like all dreams, can only end in death? What is ego? Nothingness, but in a form that seems like something. In a world of form the ego cannot be denied for it alone seems real."

[By the way, as fragilely as I am out of cult thinking, it is an extreme risk for me to read and quote from this book as I just did! ]

Dictionary.com defines ego this way:

1. the “I” or self of any person; a person as thinking, feeling, and willing, and distinguishing itself from the selves of others and from objects of its thought.
2. Psychoanalysis. the part of the psychic apparatus that experiences and reacts to the outside world and thus mediates between the primitive drives of the id and the demands of the social and physical environment.
3. egotism; conceit; self-importance: Her ego becomes more unbearable each day.
4. self-esteem or self-image; feelings: Your criticism wounded his ego.
5. (often initial capital letter) Philosophy.
a. the enduring and conscious element that knows experience.
b. Scholasticism. the complete person comprising both body and soul.
6. Ethnology. a person who serves as the central reference point in the study of organizational and kinship relationships.

Going by dictionary.com's [minus #3, perhaps :-)], I don't see how anyone could possibly say, as you did, that the death of that 'ego' is harmless. We NEED these qualities to function in this world. Corboy has written some excellent posts about this style of spirituality such as what Tolle teaches and how that impacts on one's ability to function as a normal, effective human being in today's society. Yes, killing your ego WOULD be a disaster.

Tolle, and others promoting mindfulness, are not advocating killing the ego. It is our identification as "being" our ego that he and others are speaking about. Identifying only with the ego and not the ground of being behind the ego. As he would put it ... identifying with the "form" or "dream". Identifying too strongly (or at all) with the form means that we are always embroiled in the world of ever-changing phenomenon and cannot attain/maintain balance ... or as Buddha would say ... walk the middle way.

Also ... a number of posts back it was stated that Krishnamurti realized in the end he was (himself) a sham. That is incorrect. In the end Krishnamurti sadly realized that no one (or not many) understood him.

Google "Tolle, A Course in Miracles". Interesting results.

Have you seen the Tolle posts in the Recovery section of the forum?


"I know that threads on Eckhart Tolle have previously been written. As a "recovering" "NOW-ist" I would like to discuss my aversion to his "teachings"....the self induced schizophrenia of "advaita" or non dualism."


[forum.culteducation.com]

Great post, DTE.
Ego-Death is completely ridiculous in the modern world.
If you are a monk in a cave, or a rich New Age Guru who likes to play-act...then fine.
But the rest of us mortals would like to keep our wonderful Minds which are a miracle of Evolution.
The human mind is a fantastic thing, its not the enemy.

Its possible Tolle's mental illness which was driving him to suicide, then drove him to claim Egocide. Of course, as stated, Tolle's Ego is as big as Donald Trumps, even bigger! You don't hear Donald Trump claiming to understand the entire universe and world! So Tolle is 1000x the Egomaniac of even a Donald Trump!

And that ACIM stuff is classic. Just New Age Gibberish.
That type of language is called being Artfully Vague, which is used in Hypnosis, and in Poetry.
So fine, poetry is fun, hypnosis is interesting.

But NOT when its used as a weapon, as it is by these folks, to get people to be more PASSIVE and confused.

Who knows, maybe Oprah is just using Tolle as Step #1 in her online New Age internet followership?
Who's next?
I guess we'll find out.

But as far as Tolle, people are going to find out the hard way in the school of hard knocks, it seems.
As if Oprah practices ANY of that stuff! Even now, she uses some language patterns on TV, but all Oprah ever does is go Me Me Me. Even when some kids at her school got molested...her response was a strange Me Me Me response. Everything is about Oprah?
Think of the irony, Oprah is completely self-obsessed and preaching to the world to not be self-obsessed?

This attack on the Ego comes from ancient RENUNCIATION philosophies, when life was short and brutish, and you did not have enough food, etc.

That old book Siddhartha by Herman Hesse was along the same lines as Tolle is talking about..
[www.online-literature.com]
but at least the classical renunciation stuff is more realistic. They don't say...renounce your Ego, but you can still have 9 SUV's, a hot-sexy-body, private jets, butlers, housemaids, fancy clothes, etc. (the modern New Age stuff like Tolle is so ridiculous its comical really).
Be an Egomaniac...but without the Ego. (so you are just a Maniac then?)

That stuff is NOT psychologically sound, and it is going to MESS PEOPLE UP.
That stuff is going to possibly WRECK YOUR LIFE.

Eckhart Tolle is a fraud, his name is a fraud, his persona is a fraud, his past is a fraud.
You know, Walmart might not even hire Tolle, due to his lack of a resume!
Tolle certainly could not get any decent type of employment due to his shady past, which he hides.
But Oprah figures he's good enough for her to make into a multimillionaire Guru to the soccer moms of America.
Its disgusting, really.

Why doesn't Oprah have a course with Dr. Martin Seligman on Authentic Happiness? That would actually be HELPFUL to people. Just imagine, if Oprah did a course like this, that would HELP people, not screw them up for years.
[www.authentichappiness.sas.upenn.edu]

Quote
DownToEarth

Tolle has quoted A Course in Miracles in The Power of Now, if memory serves me correctly. ACIM defines 'ego' as "But a dream of what you really are. [ACIM teaches we are but a bad dream in the mind of God, a part of the mind that has split off from God and is having a nightmare.] A thought you are apart from your Creator and a wish to be what He created not. It is a thing of madness, not reality at all. A name for namelessness is all it is. A symbol of impossibility; a choice for options that do not exist. We name it but to help us understand that it is nothing but an ancient thought that what is made has immortality. But what could come of this except a dream which, like all dreams, can only end in death? What is ego? Nothingness, but in a form that seems like something. In a world of form the ego cannot be denied for it alone seems real."

[By the way, as fragilely as I am out of cult thinking, it is an extreme risk for me to read and quote from this book as I just did! ]...
Going by dictionary.com's [minus #3, perhaps :-)], I don't see how anyone could possibly say, as you did, that the death of that 'ego' is harmless. We NEED these qualities to function in this world. Corboy has written some excellent posts about this style of spirituality such as what Tolle teaches and how that impacts on one's ability to function as a normal, effective human being in today's society. Yes, killing your ego WOULD be a disaster.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/30/2008 04:42AM by The Anticult.