The Power of Now - Eckhart Tolle - Cognitive Suicide
Posted by:
Hope
()
Date: August 09, 2007 05:29AM
Cosmophilosopher,
I picked up an ET CD from the library last week and just got the chance to play it. OMG! Germanish-Britishish-Gibberish. I can't imagine driving my car and listening to this.
I never would have picked this up but I really needed a good laugh.
Hope
I picked up an ET CD from the library last week and just got the chance to play it. OMG! Germanish-Britishish-Gibberish. I can't imagine driving my car and listening to this.
I never would have picked this up but I really needed a good laugh.
Hope
The Power of Now - Eckhart Tolle - Cognitive Suicide
Posted by:
Hope
()
Date: August 09, 2007 07:51AM
[i:f303edd32b]"If thoughts produce emotions and the emotions hurt and if I choose my thoughts, what is driving me to hurt myself with painful thoughts and emotions?" [/i:f303edd32b]
SitUbuSit,
I'd like concrete, real-world examples of how a person who, for instance, is grieving the loss of loved one, would be driving themselves to hurt with painful thoughts of loss. Are sadness and anger considered "bad" and to be driven away? What is the problem with having sad or angry emotions?
I haven't read anything in your post or in ET's book that would be considered profound enough to cause any type of transformation.
I'm thinking of very vulnerable people who might take this info and think (bad word, I know) there is something actually wrong with them for not being able to cure their depression, change their abusive relationship, or transform their lives. What exactly did ET DO to cure himself? What can others DO to be just like him?
SitUbuSit,
I'd like concrete, real-world examples of how a person who, for instance, is grieving the loss of loved one, would be driving themselves to hurt with painful thoughts of loss. Are sadness and anger considered "bad" and to be driven away? What is the problem with having sad or angry emotions?
I haven't read anything in your post or in ET's book that would be considered profound enough to cause any type of transformation.
I'm thinking of very vulnerable people who might take this info and think (bad word, I know) there is something actually wrong with them for not being able to cure their depression, change their abusive relationship, or transform their lives. What exactly did ET DO to cure himself? What can others DO to be just like him?
The Power of Now - Eckhart Tolle - Cognitive Suicide
Posted by:
joe23
()
Date: August 27, 2007 05:52AM
i know i'm a little late to the party here, but...
its amusing to watch the mean-spirited, knee jerk, ill-informed ridicule of Tolle from a group of people who already made up their minds that he was wrong before even being exposed to him. I read two of his books and found them both very helpful, as have millions of other people. it might shock you to hear that we are not all morons. (and we are not all taking walks into the wilderness at night and getting ourselves killed)
tolle's message is very simple: stop identifying with your thoughts. stop deriving your sense of self from the content of your mind. the content of your mind is shaped and conditioned by the external world, which is man-made, temporary, and shallow, and has nothing to do with who you are beyond name and form. of course you don't have to agree with this, but its something zen masters and the like have been preaching for 2000 years. tolle makes no claim to be the originator of these teachings, but is presenting them in a simple, direct form that most people can relate to.
tolle's point is that the real you - your true self - is the awareness behind your thoughts. have you ever stopped and listened to your thoughts - that voice in your head that labels things, tells you what's good and bad, loves, hates, complains, etc? If so, who is doing the listening? Tolle's point is that the listener is your awareness, which exists on a level beyond thought, and that there is a lot more to our intelligence than the basic conditioned thought patterns that shape the way we view the world.
tolle does not say we should fight those thoughts or that we should fight emotions. instead, he says that when negative thought or emotion arises, accept it, observe it, bring an awareness into it, and understand that's it not who you are, it's not the whole truth.
as for living in the now, he feels we should stop fretting about the past and future and focus on the only thing we have: this moment. is this bad advice? is it good for us to freak out about things we have no control over? also, he says repeatedly in the Power of Now and elsewhere, that "clock time" is a necessity to deal with the practical aspects of our daily lives. but while you are working or planning for your future, be fully in the now while you are doing it. the problem, he says, is "psychological time," which is living in the past and the future, which is what the egoic mind thrives on. This is not some mystical, far-out message. its extremely simple and useful. i feel that if this were written in a psychology textbook many of you would find it quite interesting.
to portray Tolle as a person who has gone nuts is just silly. if that's crazy, i'd rather be crazy. turn on the news. read the paper. do you think the human egoic mind is helpful or harmful? do you think human consciousness, in its current state, is a good scheme for the survival of our species?
as far as the merchandising and the selling of books and tapes, tolle is pretty restrained compared to other "spiritual teachers." but i'm not going to defend it, because i feel his message is on his point regardless of how many books he sells.
incidentally, those "now" tattoos? nothing to do with tolle. and the photos on his website are not for sale, despite what certain posters have alleged.
its amusing to watch the mean-spirited, knee jerk, ill-informed ridicule of Tolle from a group of people who already made up their minds that he was wrong before even being exposed to him. I read two of his books and found them both very helpful, as have millions of other people. it might shock you to hear that we are not all morons. (and we are not all taking walks into the wilderness at night and getting ourselves killed)
tolle's message is very simple: stop identifying with your thoughts. stop deriving your sense of self from the content of your mind. the content of your mind is shaped and conditioned by the external world, which is man-made, temporary, and shallow, and has nothing to do with who you are beyond name and form. of course you don't have to agree with this, but its something zen masters and the like have been preaching for 2000 years. tolle makes no claim to be the originator of these teachings, but is presenting them in a simple, direct form that most people can relate to.
tolle's point is that the real you - your true self - is the awareness behind your thoughts. have you ever stopped and listened to your thoughts - that voice in your head that labels things, tells you what's good and bad, loves, hates, complains, etc? If so, who is doing the listening? Tolle's point is that the listener is your awareness, which exists on a level beyond thought, and that there is a lot more to our intelligence than the basic conditioned thought patterns that shape the way we view the world.
tolle does not say we should fight those thoughts or that we should fight emotions. instead, he says that when negative thought or emotion arises, accept it, observe it, bring an awareness into it, and understand that's it not who you are, it's not the whole truth.
as for living in the now, he feels we should stop fretting about the past and future and focus on the only thing we have: this moment. is this bad advice? is it good for us to freak out about things we have no control over? also, he says repeatedly in the Power of Now and elsewhere, that "clock time" is a necessity to deal with the practical aspects of our daily lives. but while you are working or planning for your future, be fully in the now while you are doing it. the problem, he says, is "psychological time," which is living in the past and the future, which is what the egoic mind thrives on. This is not some mystical, far-out message. its extremely simple and useful. i feel that if this were written in a psychology textbook many of you would find it quite interesting.
to portray Tolle as a person who has gone nuts is just silly. if that's crazy, i'd rather be crazy. turn on the news. read the paper. do you think the human egoic mind is helpful or harmful? do you think human consciousness, in its current state, is a good scheme for the survival of our species?
as far as the merchandising and the selling of books and tapes, tolle is pretty restrained compared to other "spiritual teachers." but i'm not going to defend it, because i feel his message is on his point regardless of how many books he sells.
incidentally, those "now" tattoos? nothing to do with tolle. and the photos on his website are not for sale, despite what certain posters have alleged.
The Power of Now - Eckhart Tolle - Cognitive Suicide
Posted by:
furry faerie
()
Date: August 29, 2007 09:53PM
Quote
SitUbuSit
I find the level of emotion in what I have read so far to be revealing.
First, Tolle is not 100% correct, but be watchful to not toss the baby with the dirty bath water.
Second, just because someone is not 100% correct does not mean they are 100% wrong either.
I can testify to you of a personal understanding of my own self and how I work that has partially resulted from Tolle's writing and work. I find it personally interesting to read many of you attacking what you don't understand.
I can see how that is because when you encountered it, you did not have a proper frame of reference from which to get to what his words are pointing at.
This is typical. When human beings encounter something they do not understand the typical response is not questioning themselves, but attacking both the message and messenger (i.e. the attacks of the Jews on Jesus Christ, leading to His death and resurrection).
Our insanity is to believe the body of thought(s) already in our heart as though they are fundamentally true and unchallengable. Moreover, each of you seems to have begun your examination of Tolle's work from the viewpoint of "Everything I already believe is true."
Reality is: Most of what you believe is either made up by you directly -- OR -- made up by others preceding you and adopted by you as your own.
What I already expect is this: Some of you will attack me and my message here to you. You will not stop and challenge the basis (source) of your thinking, but you will (in self-righteousness) view both me and this message through the filter and prism of the thinking you already possess as though it were nearly flawless and completely trustworthy.
However, if you are wise, you will see a simple truth: Just because you think it, doesn't make what you think true (coming from and based on reality).
Further, if you are even more wise, you will understand that if even one of your thoughts can either be made up by you (disjointed from reality) or made up by another and adopted as true by you, then in this state you have no immediate way to know which of your thoughts is based in reality and which is made up.
If you are even wiser, you'll stop dead in your tracks and feel the fear (respect) of not knowing what or who to trust. You'll understand that if you cannot know the basis of your own thinking, then you cannot trust that of others because they are like you: filled with thoughts they themselves and certainly you cannot trust as being real Vs made up.
Finally, in this state of mistrust of your own body-of-thought, you'll wonder, "What then can I trust?" It is here that you'll be ready for the fundamental truth that Tolle experienced: I am not what I think, I just am; I exist regardless of what I think and the collection of thoughts in my head and heart.
When you reach this place, then you'll allow the reality of your being to begin to teach you what it means to exist and then learn how to anchor your thoughts (which in themselves are not bad or evil) in reality instead of your imagination (Gen 6:5, 2Cor 10:5). In this place you'll realiize how reality and human thought are not the same and you'll explore what it means to exist, being the watcher of your thoughts and not consumed in them (i.e. defining who you are by them, when actually you are something more than them).
Further along the road, you'll learn how thoughts produce emotions. No emotion arises of itself, but is produced by some image in the mind. When you realize this fact of our common human-machine at work, you'll ask, "If thoughts produce emotions and the emotions hurt and if I choose my thoughts, what is driving me to hurt myself with painful thoughts and emotions?"
If you get to this question: GOOD! You're well on your way! Further down the road, you'll learn how the driver behind this machine is common human flesh. It is the desires, appetites and lusts of the flesh which entice us in to the cycle of thought-->emotion: the flesh feeds on the emotions.
You'll also learn that words and actions are born from one place ONLY: Thoughts(Imaginations) + Emotions. You cannot speak or do without first thinking and feeling. I cannot. You cannot. We all -- cannot.
Try writing on a sheet of paper without thinking thoughts. Try typing a response to this post without thinking thoughts and emotions.
Try going to a movie or watching television without emotions arising from what you see (images taken in with your eyes).
You will find that we are a machine: a machine driven by desires of the flesh or by connections with reality (God Himself). These yield thoughts, which further yield emotions, which are the basis for our words and actions. Those words and actions cycle around back to more flesh or God driven thoughts, emotions ... and on and on and on.
I invite you to challenge your thinking and the source of it.
Hi there,
It is interesting that just three days ago I was given this book! I haven't really read any of it yet however, to give a fair assesment, although from a quick glance, it seemed to use language that was designed to make certain ideas, such as dealing with emotions rational, sound a bit more spiritual or special than what they really are. It is a kind of 'new agey' language which I usually tend to find a bit self-aggrandising, but I don't think that necessarily means there won't be valid points made. (I think even the church world has particular words and sayings however, that give it it's own 'language'. It doesn't mean it is wrong, it's just that you have to kind of understand the language, to really understand what they are getting at).
I appreciated the above post. Far from being rambling and incoherent it made a lot of sense to me. :) It seemed very rational.
My usual approach to such things is read it, if it makes sense, give it a go...if it sounds like gibberish or unsuitable or unrealistic, than leave it. Some people do find such things empowering, others don't.
It is sad to hear about the young girl being led to more or less take her own life through what Tolle has said. But it's like blaming rock music for young kids killing others, or taking their own lives. Obviously there was some underlying mental or spiritual thing she was going through...the ideas in this book tipped something for her...but it could very easily have been anything. There are plenty of people who take their own lives, or make poor decisions, through losing their jobs, than who do through reading self-help books. Does that mean that those jobs are evil, and that people working in those fields should all go and quit their jobs?
My sincerest sympathy goes out to this girls family and friends for their loss.
The Power of Now - Eckhart Tolle - Cognitive Suicide
Posted by:
joe23
()
Date: August 30, 2007 08:16PM
the article about the little girl was a joke. seriously, i actually thought it was a parody of that wide-eyed, 1930's style, "reefer madness"-type paranoia. "eckhart tolle is killing our children!!" To date around 4 million people have read the power of now and one little girl goes out in the woods and gets killed and it's because of the book?? people, those hollow, flexible cylinders you're grasping at are called "straws."
let's not worry about all the violence kids see on TV and the movies and the human madness they watch played out 24 hours a day on the news - let's worry about a book that suggests you can live a peaceful, happy, gentle, compassionate life. No!!!! Burn the book!
after reading the comments on here and checking out the title of the forum itself, it is clear most of you have an agenda and are not attacking tolle the person, but the "concept" of gurus, mystics, weirdos, and cult leaders. you're attacking the idea of something. you're not open minded and you're not interested in the reality of what's going on.
oh by the way, i read "Walden" by Henry David Thoreau the other day, and was inspired to appreciate nature a bit more, so i went out for a walk in the woods and was mauled by a bear....
HENRY DAVID THOREAU WILL GET YOU MAULED BY BEARS!!!!!!!
(of course, if thoreau were alive today and published a book on moving to the woods for two years to live in a cabin, and then traveled the world giving speeches to transfixed audiences, he would be getting skewered mercilessly by the agenda-driven dipshits on this message board. ah, nobody's reading this anyway. bye!)
let's not worry about all the violence kids see on TV and the movies and the human madness they watch played out 24 hours a day on the news - let's worry about a book that suggests you can live a peaceful, happy, gentle, compassionate life. No!!!! Burn the book!
after reading the comments on here and checking out the title of the forum itself, it is clear most of you have an agenda and are not attacking tolle the person, but the "concept" of gurus, mystics, weirdos, and cult leaders. you're attacking the idea of something. you're not open minded and you're not interested in the reality of what's going on.
oh by the way, i read "Walden" by Henry David Thoreau the other day, and was inspired to appreciate nature a bit more, so i went out for a walk in the woods and was mauled by a bear....
HENRY DAVID THOREAU WILL GET YOU MAULED BY BEARS!!!!!!!
(of course, if thoreau were alive today and published a book on moving to the woods for two years to live in a cabin, and then traveled the world giving speeches to transfixed audiences, he would be getting skewered mercilessly by the agenda-driven dipshits on this message board. ah, nobody's reading this anyway. bye!)
Re: The Power of Now - Eckhart Tolle - Cognitive Suicide
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: January 31, 2008 11:22AM
Wow, great, I did a search and there was already some threads here about this Eckhart Tolle guy.
Well, guess what. The Secret was not enough for Oprah. Now she is going to promote another one to her legions of followers.
Oprah is now pushing Eckhart Tolle.
[januarymagazine.com]
One wonders does Oprah take any time at all to THINK about this stuff, or is it that it just sounds good? Why does she always promote these New Agers?
I can't recall her ever promoting a real intellectual on these subjects. Could you imagine if she actually promoted someone who knew what they were talking about for a change?
Why always the credulous New Age stuff?
Ya think that is the type of audience that ADVERTISERS want?
People who will believe whatever they are told and spoon-fed without any critical thought whatsoever?
Those who believe my product makes your sheets whiter cause we say so?
Maybe that's why she a billionaire.
She really appears to have no ethics in this area, or maybe just doesn't care, or think to care, or maybe just thinks she is right? Who knows, but its depressing..
Well, guess what. The Secret was not enough for Oprah. Now she is going to promote another one to her legions of followers.
Oprah is now pushing Eckhart Tolle.
[januarymagazine.com]
One wonders does Oprah take any time at all to THINK about this stuff, or is it that it just sounds good? Why does she always promote these New Agers?
I can't recall her ever promoting a real intellectual on these subjects. Could you imagine if she actually promoted someone who knew what they were talking about for a change?
Why always the credulous New Age stuff?
Ya think that is the type of audience that ADVERTISERS want?
People who will believe whatever they are told and spoon-fed without any critical thought whatsoever?
Those who believe my product makes your sheets whiter cause we say so?
Maybe that's why she a billionaire.
She really appears to have no ethics in this area, or maybe just doesn't care, or think to care, or maybe just thinks she is right? Who knows, but its depressing..
Re: The Power of Now - Eckhart Tolle - Cognitive Suicide
Posted by:
shakti
()
Date: February 01, 2008 01:57AM
Quote
The Anticult
Wow, great, I did a search and there was already some threads here about this Eckhart Tolle guy.
Well, guess what. The Secret was not enough for Oprah. Now she is going to promote another one to her legions of followers.
Oprah is now pushing Eckhart Tolle.
[januarymagazine.com]
One wonders does Oprah take any time at all to THINK about this stuff, or is it that it just sounds good? Why does she always promote these New Agers?
Here's my take on Oprah and the New Age. While things like the Secret and What the Bleep are gobbled up by people mostly to the Left of center who are disaffected from Christianity or other mainstream religions, the fact is that much of the New Age actually upholds a corporate status quo. In spite of all the New Age talk about healing the earth, saving humanity, etc. the prime focus of Bleepers is the SELF. One's career, one's wealth. The notion that "you create your own reality" is meant to make people blame themselves for the problems that befall them. For example, "it is not the corporation's fault that they bought cheap materials which then caused a roof to fall on you, you created your own reality by being in that room". It dovetails perfectly with an anti-union, anti-litigation, anti-COMMUNITY agenda.
Now as for Oprah, in her mind, "if I as someone who came from the poorest of the poor can become one of the world's wealthiest and most influential people, so can you!" Well, not exactly. Not everybody has the same charm, talent, and savvy as Oprah, nor do they have the mentoring that she received at a critical time in her teen years. So, for her, she HAS created her own reality, but not because she "wished it into being" but because she was talented, smart, AND worked her ass off. But to her, the Secret and What the Bleep help to justify her guilt over her incredible wealth.
Re: The Power of Now - Eckhart Tolle - Cognitive Suicide
Posted by:
The Shadow
()
Date: February 04, 2008 11:00AM
Hi Coz,
when I heard Oprah sending out a "shout-out" for people to jump on the band-wagon for this new "movement" and I heard the name "Eckhart" my red flags started waving, bells went off in my head, so I immediately "goggled" his name...I see he is living in BC (help!)...
..then yesterday a friend of my sister phoned me and was raving on about his books..i suggested she scrutinize his suggestions carefully as it is my experience that one cannot transcend one's ego after reading a few books, or attending a dozen or more "seminars"...it takes a lifetime, maybe many (but what do I know?) to do that...
I will suggest that she comes and checks out this site.
thanks for your post.
later,
"Shad"
when I heard Oprah sending out a "shout-out" for people to jump on the band-wagon for this new "movement" and I heard the name "Eckhart" my red flags started waving, bells went off in my head, so I immediately "goggled" his name...I see he is living in BC (help!)...
..then yesterday a friend of my sister phoned me and was raving on about his books..i suggested she scrutinize his suggestions carefully as it is my experience that one cannot transcend one's ego after reading a few books, or attending a dozen or more "seminars"...it takes a lifetime, maybe many (but what do I know?) to do that...
I will suggest that she comes and checks out this site.
thanks for your post.
later,
"Shad"
Re: The Power of Now - Eckhart Tolle - Cognitive Suicide
Posted by:
The Shadow
()
Date: February 04, 2008 11:10AM
Hi Corboy,
thanks for your comments, you make some interesting points...
I have not met many truly enlightenen and (transcendent) personality in my short visit to this planet earth, but the ones who have taught me the most (and best) have not charged me a penny....
what more can i say,
regards,
the shad
thanks for your comments, you make some interesting points...
I have not met many truly enlightenen and (transcendent) personality in my short visit to this planet earth, but the ones who have taught me the most (and best) have not charged me a penny....
what more can i say,
regards,
the shad
Re: The Power of Now - Eckhart Tolle - Cognitive Suicide
Posted by:
Jack Oskar Larm
()
Date: February 04, 2008 12:53PM
Can someone please define 'NOW'?
I mean, when is now? Ooops, it's just gone! Oh, you say read this book to arrive at now. So, it's in the future?
I mean, when is now? Ooops, it's just gone! Oh, you say read this book to arrive at now. So, it's in the future?
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