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if you don't understand my faith and religion is bona fide and pure than you are in the mode of ignorance and your harden heart needs to be softened by a force higher than my humble self.

Just so you know, this is an argument used by cults all over the world, who teach their adherents that theirs is the only true path and that those who don't believe are somehow unenlightened and ignorant. My friend in Landmark said pretty much the same thing to me, and in his group, which claims NOT to be a religion, he follows the teachings of a former used car salesman who's fled the U.S. to escape tax fraud charges, etc.

I know you feel you've found the truth, but many people in many cults feel exactly the same way.

If you were truly happy in your faith, I don't think you'd be bothered visitng this site or reading alternate opinions.

Do you feel the need to chant to escape the anger and confusion caused by visiting here? If so, think for a moment about why you need to shut down your thought processes in order to find peace.

The more you read about cults, the more you'll find how much they have in common.

Just something to think about...and remember we're here to help.

A new article just appeared about Krishna regarding their historical treatment of children.

See [www.dailypennsylvanian.com]

Krisha/ISKCON has a horrific history of child abuse.

Of course they offer that same old sing-song, "We have changed."

But have they?

It seems that the same type of authoritarian leadership is in place and many of the same leaders that ruled over the organization during its "bad old days" remain intact.

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Why do you feel compelled to serve a blue man from Hindu mythology?

For the same reason many people in the US feel compelled to serve a Jewish Carpenter from Judeo-Christian "Mythology". Millions of people, especially in Orissa and Bengal worship Krishna, and have no connection to ISKCON or any cult. Hundreds of millions adhere to to the "Hindu Mythology". Some people consider Jerusalem their holy land, others call it Mecca, others still see it in places like Varanasi and Vrindavan.

There are so many things wrong with ISKCON and other cults who claim Krishna as their own, no reason to pit your tan carpenter versus someone's blue cowherder. Or the invisible Allah for that matter.

Oh in other news, another ISKCON preacher/guru, Prithu das, has resigned from ISKCON and from the "guru position". He was one of the most vehement pro-ISKCON fanatics who often spoke against any other Vaishnava group, and one of the staunchest of the in-house ISKCON apologists.

Dear members,

I am an old Hare Krishna member who was initiated in 1973 by the founder, prabhupada. That is a name his 'disciples' gave to him, not his true name.

I was in that cult until 1975 and was fortunate to get out then. I only wasted so much of my time. Others have wasted their whole lives believing in a myth.

I left that movement because I discovered that many of the leaders were active homosexuals. The religion says that one must not have sex unless married and then only for procreation. Also, many of the leaders of the temples were having sex with the unmarried women who lived in the temples, thus breaking the principles of the cult. There were other reasons.

Then after I had left the corrupt organization (the International Society of Krishna Consciousness) things just kept getting worse.

Then I discovered a few months ago that child molesters were active in the cult's childrens schools. Also, other abuse. This was going on in the 1970's.

I am happy I left that corrupt and filthy organization.

The cult's founder was innocent of abuse of children, as far as I know, but he started the movement as a way of showing his friends in India, from whence he came, that he was better than they were. You see, there is competition in the spiritual community there. The history of prabhupada's cult is one of backstabing and competition. He showed his 'godbrothers' that he was quite a guy.
However, his cult movement is now shrouded in guilt and shadows because of child abuse, molestings, and murder and all kinds of dishonesty. That is why everyone knows that it is corrupt.

A filthy organization at best.

I did my duty while in that movement. I was a true believer but one day the light came on in my head and I got out.

Thank God for that!

Love,

YOURMASTER :D

I was a hare krishna beginning in 1973. I got out on 1975 and that was a good thing.

I is a total brainwashing experience.

Love,

YOURMASTER :)

Dervish wrote:

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... no reason to pit your tan carpenter versus someone's blue cowherder.

Guess I need to add a little clarification here. I was in no way promoting any religion as being more sound than the particular form of Hinduism in question here. And how you've come to believe that I was promoting Christianity in particular is a mystery to me. Please see my posts in the thread "Christianity and Religion in General's Inherent Problems" and you will find that I would be among the last people here to do so.

For an amusing look at the practice of preaching one religion over another, see God Wars:

[www.geocities.com]


BhaktaMax wrote:

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I'd like to say to the person who said that the process of meditating on God has the same effect as a street drug, you are sadly mistaken. The reason that people feel that extreme bliss and joy when, even for a split second they feel the true unconditional love of God is the Absolute Truth, it is not the effect of some street drug, it is only Truth.

If the love of God is unconditional, then why do you have to chant and meditate for hours on end, day after day to experience it? Chanting and meditating is a condition to be fulfilled in order to feel this fleeting high that you speak of here. It's [i:290e1bbafa]very[/i:290e1bbafa] conditional and high maintenance as Corboy mentioned in his first post in this thread.

You better have answers to these questions (because it's your life and you have to live it whatever you make of it) -- real answers -- you can't just throw out sparkly phrases like "Absolute Truth" and "Unconditional Love" and "Santa has a workshop at the North Pole". These ideas are cute and all, but they don't even come anywhere close to providing reasons as to why you need to fulfill conditions in order to experience the unconditional.

You can hang out at airports all day and try to convince the whole world that some blue fellow from the Srimad Bhagavatam (a poorly written story book) is real and fills our stockings with goodies if we praise him enough, but what it all comes down to is your life. It doesn't matter what I think or what the others here that have posted think, or even what the people at the airports think. It's your life and you need to seriously consider if you want to live trapped in a fantasy world along with the pains (as it bumps against the stone wall of reality) that eventually result.

People will believe whatever they want to believe and will look for confirmation of those beliefs and will find them when they do so. But this is a self-deluding approach. A responsible approach (as used when the scientific method is properly carried out step by step) is to try your best to [i:290e1bbafa]disprove[/i:290e1bbafa] your beliefs -- that's the real test. Then you're left with something real in your hands with which you can build computers and send rockets to the moon with. Chanting "Hare Krishna" with mind-numbing repetition is not going to help you find out if he is real or not. Start with some common sense then look into the steps of the scientific method. Find out what's real then you can make a tangible difference with that knowledge.


While we're all rolling around on the floor mumbling "Krishna, Krishna, Krishna", let's try to come to a stop for just a minute to consider who exactly this Krishna guy is. Wouldn't that be reasonable? Let's take a look at some of the scripture we find him in:

“The lord Krsna, lord of all masters of yoga, came there with his friends of the same age in order to grant them the object of their rites. He took their clothes and quickly climbed a Nipa tree, and laughing with the laughing boys he told what the joke was: 'Girls, let each one of you come here and take her own clothes as she wishes. ... Slender-waisted ones, come one by one or all together and take your clothes.' When the cow-herd girls saw what his game was, they ... looked at one another in shame ... Flustered and embarrassed by Govinda's (Krsna's) words and by his jest, they sank down up to their necks in the icy water, and, shivering, they said to him, 'You should not have played such a wicked trick. ... Give us our clothes, for we are trembling. ... give us our clothes or we will tell your father ... The lord said to them, '... do as I command ... come here and take back your clothes ...' Then all the girls, shivering and smarting with cold, came out of the water, covering their crotches with their hands. The lord was pleased and gratified ...” -- Srimad Bhagavatam 10

Ummm, your Krishna Consciousness cult may find this story cute, but in the civilized world this is called sexual harassment. A comeback here might be to say that he was teaching the girls some type of twisted spiritual lessons, but if that was the case, why does he say: "Slender-waisted ones, come one by one or all together and take your clothes"? Aren't the heavy-set girls worthy of this wonderful Divine lessons as well?


“One day Narada came to Dvaraka to see Krsna. All the Yadu boys received him with respect, but Samba, proud of his young beauty and deluded by the fated, inevitable force of the curse, disregarded Narada. To teach Samba a lesson, Narada told Krsna that all of Krsna's sixteen thousand wives were in love with Samba. Samba was summoned, and the women, whose minds were blurred by wine, showed unmistakable signs of passion when Samba appeared. Furious, Krsna cursed them to be carried off by barbarians after his death, and he cursed Samba to be afflicted by leprosy.” -- Samba Purana 3

Real pleasant guy, your Krishna. I thought Krishna was suppose to be [i:290e1bbafa]unconditionally[/i:290e1bbafa] loving? But it's quite clear that he flies into a violent rage if one of his harem girls dares to even look at another man.

The previous poster does not understand about the krishna myth.

The relationships krishna has with the women is not to be understood as being between a earthly man and woman.

It is a relationship that we all have with God as individuals, expressed in terms and emotions and situations that are physical

I will elaborate more later. Now I have to go back to work and pay taxes so that the cultists can collect their food stamps and welfare.

Love,

YOURMASTER :)

Yourmaster wrote:

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The relationships krishna has with the women is not to be understood as being between a earthly man and woman. It is a relationship that we all have with God as individuals, expressed in terms and emotions and situations that are physical.

If we remove the male and female aspects and replace those with the relationship between God and man, this is even worse then. We no longer have a mortal abusive dictator, but a cosmic one. How utterly depressing.

So the idea of God that's being promoted here is one of a sexist, manipulative, and unfairly abusive dictatorial monster in the sky. No one would bow to such a God without being motivated by fear and the belief that they're going to get some special treat for being loyal. This is what these stories teach -- fear the projection of authority in the sky and constantly feed into its ego so it will give you a pat on the head. The faithful call this [i:2042180612]love[/i:2042180612]. Do I really need to explain why this isn't "love"?

Well, I have returned home from a good days work, and have helped to pay for welfare and food stamps and health care for the parasite gurus and their poor slaves.

The krishna's will believe in their religion because they have not questioned the nature of belief.

Why do we believe (in anything)? When we answer and understand the answer to this question we will not believe anything of a spiritual nature again, because we will not want to be dishonest with ourselves.

Belief offers us a cuddly blanket of security from the realities of life. This is fact, not to be spun away by the deceivers.

The parasite, filthy gurus and their blind followers will speak in a way to make some feel good, and the suggestable mind sops it up like a sponge. You see, we are all (mostly) very suggestable (look at the support for the viet nam war traitor, john kerry) and the stupid gurus take advantage of this to gain power over your mind.

The best thing for the parasite gurus is not to support them in any way. That way they will have to go out in the real world and find a job to support themselves, instead of relying on their flock to bring in the money gained fraudulently, for the most part. Don't go to the filthy temples where the idols sit.

The krishna's care more about their idols then they do about unborn children or normal people. They care about a ignorant religion and it is so sad.

I was one of them and I knew the founder. I knew many of the big wigs back in the old days of the krishna movement.


Love,

YOURMASTER :D

myths make for good stories with meaning. This is good.
But when power hungry slave drivers start teaching them in the name of religion then watch out!

First, accept that your mind is highly suggestable. One must always be aware of this fact.

Sure, sure. There may be a 'higher state of consciousness' out there. But guess what? We are stuck with what we have. It is good enough to make progress on the path to being better humans as time goes on.

Objective meditation will make one more aware and able to have the energy to deal with life. There is always room for improvement thru quiet awareness. That is good.

But the filthy, parasites who prey upon young minds are a different story. They tear loved ones apart and cause fathers to leave their responsibilities. The gurus don't care for you. Only their power and their standing among their stupid peers.

How do I know this? I was amongst them and saw and heard the truth of the system of brainwashing. I was even brainwashed myself. I carried out dishonest practices of seperating people from their money for the 'cause'. It was "by hook or by crook". That was what the founder said. Any way to get money for the leadership.

Love,

YOURMASTER :)