Hare Krishna

I found this site some time ago, and not too long ago started reading on this forum. I have to say that this site does shed some information on cults and the dangers of them. The only problem is Krishna Consciousness isn't a cult, in fact it's the opposite, it is true spiritual light. Now I don't know what each of you individually on this board consider before you label a religion or a religious organization a "cult" but I'm going to guess for most people it's as simple as "these people have 'weird' beliefs and they may look different, must be a cult". I know that is the most common reason why someone would consider something a "cult" the other being some of you were maybe involved with ISKCON and they fucked you over, or abused you or something. To those people I say that it must have been a horrible tragic experience, but if you were in the religion yourself then I hope you realize that the horrible things that happened to you are not taught by the religion, and it is completely against Krishna Consciousness. Now as for myself, I'm 18, I was raised catholic in a perfectly normal Canadian middle-class home. Nothing ever happened to me when I was growing up that would traumatize me. Also when I found Krishna Consciousness I wasn't even looking for something that I could connect to, I guess you could say it was fate, or Krishna's mercy rather. I have to say that it is the greatest thing that has happened to me in my life, it softened my heart and just made everything in my life seem not so bad and maybe a little more tolerable. But I'm still the same person that's for sure, I just now know the Absolute Truth. It did not change my personality, only made a lot of the hate that I was harboring inside me go away, so I can try to live my life in a good way, serving Krishna. Also all of the other devotees I have met thus far (I know there are some rotten ones, but that can be said for EVERY bona fide religion) has been cool and nice to me. I try to chant everyday and read some Krishna Conscious literature everyday too (praise His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada!) So I think I've said all that I wanted to say here. Please if you think that Krishna Conscious is bad just know that ISKCON is not *the* authority, pure devotees are, and Krishna is our goal.

Hare Krishna!

but many other persons involved with the Krishnas have not had positive experiences at all.

Just make sure you dont become one of them. There is a wealth of information about the Krishnas on the RR.com database

[culteducation.com]

To learn more about how ordinary people can trigger seemingly spiritual experienes, this article by David Lane is very informative:

(http://vm.mtsac.edu/~dlane/kstat.html

[vm.mtsac.edu]

Also remember when you are in a "cult", its not going to feel like you are in a cult! It feels like you have discovered the Reality of The Universe, and everything has come together.

Its only those "other people" with their "weird beliefs" who are the crazy ones. Not "my group".

So if you are 18 years old, you have a long road ahead of you.
Be smart, ask questions, look behind the curtain.
Do your research.
Think for yourself.

Study the psychology of what might be happening to you.

Coz

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I just now know the Absolute Truth.

Yes...but people cults believe the same thing. Moonies believe it (also that Moon is the Messiah), folks in Landmark believe it (they found it through "ontology"), people in Scientology believe it (and also that aliens were implanted in volcanoes millions of years ago).

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It did not change my personality, only made a lot of the hate that I was harboring inside me go away, so I can try to live my life in a good way, serving Krishna.

Yes...the high people feel during a cult "transformation" can seem to make all your hatred and troubles disappear...for a while. My friend, who is in Landmark, feels this way too. Are you aware that followers of other messiahs feel the same way you do? Who is right?

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Also all of the other devotees I have met thus far (I know there are some rotten ones, but that can be said for EVERY bona fide religion) has been cool and nice to me.

Members of most cultic groups are nice to each other; in fact, many practice "love bombing," a sort of unconditional love for members.

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I try to chant everyday and read some Krishna Conscious literature everyday

Just so you know, studies have shown that the more chanting and meditating one does, the worse certain psychological symptoms become over time. Be careful how of much time you spend shutting off the critical thinking process. The mind-numbing effects can be cumulative and last much longer than you think.

Have you read any of the information here about the Unification Church or Scientology? Why not take a look? You might find it interesting.

Best to you,

Glam

cult n

1. a system of religious or spiritual beliefs, especially an informal and transient belief system regarded by others as misguided or unorthodox

2. a group of people who share religious or spiritual beliefs

3. extreme or excessive admiration for a person, philosophy of life, or activity (often used before a noun)

4. a person, philosophy, or activity regarded with extreme or excessive admiration

5. something popular or fashionable among a devoted group of enthusiasts (often used before a noun)

6. a body of organized practices and beliefs supposed to involve interaction with and control over supernatural powers

7. a self-identified group of people who share a narrowly defined interest or perspective


Search Thesaurus for "cult"

sect (noun): religious group, faction, party
trendy (adjective): offbeat, alternative, out of the ordinary, unusual, mainstream (antonym)
fad (noun): craze, trend [/color:9b5a306fa6]

is quite nice and reasonable but it seems to trivialize the dreadful suffering exacted by high demand groups (aka cults).

It also ignores specific and observable characteristics of cults and high demand groups identified here--archived from many sources

[culteducation.com]

Members of the RR.com message board are glad to discuss and debate issues, but the one thing not appreciated is trivialization of personal pain.

If you're happy, in your group, thats fine. But others feel they have been harmed and they come to the RR.com for the purpose of working on recovery issues. This kind of work is painful, takes efforts and many members prefer not to be distracted.

No one is visiting ISKON and disrupting the [i:a54f0fcc74]sankirtans[/i:a54f0fcc74]. So it is fair to respect what people are trying to do on RR.com. What is going on here is a form of [i:a54f0fcc74]jnana yoga[/i:a54f0fcc74]--the cultivation of knowledge in the form of critical thinking and conscientous research.

On the RR.com message board members are doing their own work on recovery and research. They are not trying to rob you of your joy. [i:a54f0fcc74]We cannot take anything away from you. [/i:a54f0fcc74]

If you've been happy as a Krishna devotee and dont want yr happiness disrupted, there are plenty of ISKON related venues from which you can get validation w/o having your anxiety triggered.

If you hang around RR.com, that's [b:a54f0fcc74]your [/b:a54f0fcc74]decision. No one made you log on. If you read the material, [i:a54f0fcc74]you can expect to feel anxious[/i:a54f0fcc74] because it will conflict with what you're told in your organization.

If you dont want to feel anxious, its best to stick with ISKON related events and reading matter.

Someone describes the bait and switch process used by many groups---bliss is emphasized in the beginning, or love is. Only later does fear slip in and take over.:

(The person is referring to another Indian yogic tradition, but the same principle holds)

[board.culteducation.com]

Dear Bhakta Max,

I'm not sure if anyone here is condemning Gaudiya Vaishnavism or Krishna as a whole. All I see here are posts wary of ISKCON, and other cults which have taken the name of Krishna and abused it in one way or another. While the bhakti process and eastern guru tattva are certainly not bad within themselves and can render spiritual enlightenment, the nature which one can surrender to it makes it dangerous when the wrong preachers approach people. This is what we've seen in ISKCON for at least 25 years. Between the child abuse, and psychological abuse of grown devotees, and the encouragement to commit crimes, I would say it's dangerous and sectarian.

Many of the abusers are STILL IN ISKCON. ISKCON is quick to excommunicate people who accepted a guru outside of ISKCON, but the abusers? Their philosophy there seems to be forgive and forget. Many of the gurus of the peak times of abuse in the 1980's, including Hridayananda and Satsvarupa, continue to this day, to fiercely hold and consolidate their power. None of them seem the least bit penetent that when the abuse and crimes were widespread, they just sat back, did nothing, and continued to hold onto power. To me, that's just not the definition of a "pure devotee".

Before you commit yourself to a guru or organization, check out the history VERY carefully, because being indocrinated by a false power is a very subtle process. You could come from an extremely wealthy background with a family of businesspeople and professionals, and it's still easy. This website is replete with stories of wealthy, successful people being sucked in (and frankly, I don't see why being caucasian would be some cult deterrent, especially coming from someone who has allegedly embraced the concept "I am not this body")[/url]

BhaktaMax wrote:

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I have to say that this site does shed some information on cults and the dangers of them. The only problem is Krishna Consciousness isn't a cult ...

Some questions here for you to consider, if you wish. They may sound a bit pointed, but they're not personal assaults of any kind; they're just some ideas for you to kick around that you may find helpful:

There must be some slightly discomforting elements about your involvement, otherwise why would you be looking over the material here (and perhaps other cultic resources)? Also, you've not only read the material, but have posted stating your beliefs to get some feedback. If you were truly comfortable with your new set of beliefs, why post here?

I think it's great that you have. I hope what some have said here and the links that have been provided can help you to really think through what you may be getting yourself into.


BhaktaMax:

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... in fact it's the opposite, it is true spiritual light.

A specific group of people, a specific set of ritualistic and mechanical / repetitive practices, and a specific set of beliefs is "true spiritual light"? You should really think carefully about this statement. There should be little alarm bells (the ones that got you to look here in the first place) ringing in the back of your mind alerting you when you embrace this type of constrictive thinking. These alarm bells (figuratively speaking) are your critical thinking faculties. Your critical thinking abilities is what protects you from being taken in by scam artists, whether it's something mild like someone trying to sell you something you don't need or really want, or something more serious like someone trying to convince you to unlock your front door (who has home invasion robbery on mind), it's your critical thinking faculties that are there to make you [i:3599c6ae9f]question[/i:3599c6ae9f] their motives. Your critical thinking abilities is your friend. Some groups will tell you not to listen to this voice (and may even equate it with the 'devil' or some type of 'evil'), but this voice is necessary to protect us from being taken advantage of and even from being physically harmed.


BhaktaMax:

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... I can try to live my life in a good way, serving Krishna.

Most here will not agree with what I am going to say here (so don't think that this following comment reflects the views of the cult recovery field), but I feel I'd be irresponsible not to by letting 'political correctness' [I know that term is way overused, but sometimes it is appropriate] stand in the way of allowing thought to unfold in a natural, exploratory manner.

Why do you feel compelled to serve a blue man from Hindu mythology? You wouldn't worship the blue man Poseidon from Greek mythology, so what's so special about Krishna that makes him [i:3599c6ae9f]real[/i:3599c6ae9f]? What if someone told you that they found "true spiritual light" through the worship of Poseidon? What would you think? One might come up with a political answer here and say that whatever form of the Divine that one chooses to worship through is fine because it all leads to the same place. [I would agree -- they all lead to the psychiatrist's office.] But what would you really think? You would probably think that they were emotionally imbalanced or at least emotionally immature.

The thing that makes you embrace Krishna over Poseidon is that Hinduism is still an active religion, which means that people are out [i:3599c6ae9f]selling[/i:3599c6ae9f] it. No one's out selling Greek mythology any more probably because it didn't turn out to be much of a money maker. It was kind of a not-so-serious religion (for the most part) and was just too laid back to be an effective tool for coercion (that's my guess).

So you've been 'sold' the belief in Krishna and you are now interested in doing Krishna's will. Now considering that fact that Krishna is a character from a story book, how is one to serve him? Now that could be tricky, but fear not because the leaders in your group will gladly let you know 'his' will. But who's will are you really serving then?

I'm making some of this sound funny, and some is down right insulting (towards belief systems and not personally directed). The point is to get you to think in ways that you haven't been taught to think -- to question what you've been taught to [i:3599c6ae9f]not[/i:3599c6ae9f] question. The goal here is to stimulate your critical thinking faculties.


BhaktaMax:

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I have to say that it is the greatest thing that has happened to me in my life, it softened my heart and just made everything in my life seem not so bad and maybe a little more tolerable.

Drugs can easily accomplish this as well, even better in fact. But does that mean that that's a healthy route to travel down? It may work well initially, but the further you go down this path, the greater the destruction that can result.

Developing emotional maturity is never an easy process. We always look to others to hold our hand. We find human hands to be imperfect, so we look into the sky for a guiding hand that is flawless (a blue hand in your case).

Instead of me concluding here with a statement of what emotional maturity is, how about you think about it and figure it out for yourself, because actually no one else can do it for you. Psychologists, counselors and religious leaders will try to give you that answer. But emotional maturity might be something different than looking to others for answers.

When an entire tradition is removed from its cultural context and filtered through a single human personality, teaching in a foreign country, the risk exists that students will be exposed not just to the spiritual material but also to the biases and blind spots of the single person who transmits that material.

It is desirable for a teacher to bring in other teachers from the home country so students can get the same tradition from a variety of teachers.

I'd just like to comment on some of the things you guys have said. Please excuse me if any of what I'm about to say sounds like I'm in anger. But I was upset that you guys can't understand that the Hare Krishna religion is true and bona fide. I showed my girlfriend the comments that you all had in this thread I made, and she fortunately calmed me down and suggested instead of being angry I try to explain things to you guys again. This will be my last post as this is all I can do and if you still want to have an ignorant opinion of bona fide religions that is your loss, none of what any of you have said has shaked my faith in anyway, I know Krishna is the Absolute Truth and no one or thing in the mode of ignorance can sway me from this fact.

I'd like to say to the person who claimed that the reason I was on this site and board in the first place is I'm "questioning my faith" this could not be further from the case, my faith is strong and getting stronger by the day. The way I actually found this site is while a few months ago, when I did not yet consider myself a devotee but I was starting to read Krishna Conscious material, I wondered by people would think such an amazing faith would be anything even close to a "cult". Well of course I found out that the only people who thought that were A)in the mode of ignorance when it came to understanding this bona fide religion or B) were a part of the religion and were mistreated by someone claiming to be a devotee. To those people I again say, this is not the religion that did this to you, it was a sick person. The way of Krishna Consciousness is pure, beautiful, and perfect. I indeed "think for myself" now more clearer than I ever have, because I know love and want to understand Krishna. I'm not going to waste my time typing a long response defending my faith from every angle possible, because if you don't understand my faith and religion is bona fide and pure than you are in the mode of ignorance and your harden heart needs to be softened by a force higher than my humble self. But I'd like to say to the person who said that the process of meditating on God has the same effect as a street drug, you are sadly mistaken. The reason that people feel that extreme bliss and joy when, even for a split second they feel the true unconditional love of God is the Absolute Truth, it is not the effect of some street drug, it is only Truth. I can only hope that all of you one day can understand that Krishna Consciousness is a real faith and it's pure and beautiful. I hope that all of you atheistic sounding people come to a true spiritual road, even if you don't come to the Hare Krishna religion there are many other bona fide religions that teach God Consciousness.

Hare Krishna