Jessica:

You have violated the rules you agreed to.

No preaching.

All cult members from Jim Jones to David Koresh, believe they have found the "truth."

Being in a "cult" may still be "stumbling through life."

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yoursister
Anyone here know where one Siddaswarupananda aka Jagad Gura aka Chris Butler fits into the scheme of things vis a vis power plays, ISKON politics, history, the complex positioning and power games evident among guru deviants? What was his reputation within ISKON and so on....
Is there any info regarding his large and exclusive following and where the excessive secrecy comes from? Why their obsessive ideas about his supremacy, germ-phobias and arrogant stance?

If you are patient enough to read through the thread "Krishna group in Hawaii", you'll find the info you seek.

I was much more secure in my faith before I had any involvement at all with taking on a spiritual master. I have now done my time in Science of Identity and associated with devotees and read teachings of three branches of KC and can hardly bring myself to delve into the world of Sai Baba who claims to be Krishna.

On this site is some very strange and rather unique articles including Illuminati and conspiracy theories :roll: but there are links to the book of murdered ISKCON devotee Sulocana das who attempted to expose the corruption of ISKCON The Guru Business and also a video of ISKCON leaders being accussed of poisioning Bhaktivedanta Swami :

[www.prabhupada.org.uk]

Regarding the poisoning conspiracy here is the best site I have found today that is still up :

[www.harekrsna.org]

There was a book on-line called "Someone Has Poisoned Me" if you are able to find a functional link to it.

Quote
rrmoderator
Jessica:

You have violated the rules you agreed to.

No preaching.

"

WHat is and what is not preaching? I read her post.. sounded like she thinks the group is good. No preaching, never heard any thing like it in the first amend..heres a thing i copyed about it:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech

Any way, back to bashing this group. always got the jeebies when i heard their chanting on the street. Think that makes them fit for this site. DOnt you think so?

Jessica - it is nice to see that you almost have the courage of your convictions - I think you must be new to SOI. Why don't you come down off your cloud from on high where you preach to us lowly demons and give something of substance? Refute what is being said. Do you want to show me to Krishna? Do you follow lord Caitanya's mission of only the most fallen will attain to Krishna? Am I fallen enough for you? I would gladly talk to you and I will take down and stop writing any information that you or anyone else can convince me is wrong. I will come and meet you in Sydney any time or day that suits you and you can even sell me some books and lectures if you like. So you want to take up this opportunity at devotional service? Can you be 'like soldiers' as Siddha says we need to be for Krishna or is being in the forum just your little way to think you are doing something faithful?

On the thread Science of Identity all the info you like Jessica has weighed in to criticise me for writing about Science of Identity. She comes in here to preach the voice of reason (in her opinion) to not say bad things about Siddha.

According to Siddha's teachings it is the kindest thing that you can do for anyone to show them Krishna. It was the message of Bhaktivedanta Swami to distribute books so that all may have the knowledge of KC.

Let us talk about Siddha's followers in Sydney and why it is clear that they fit the definition of a destructive cult seeking to manipulate and control followers.

Before I went to the Gold Coast I lived less than 45 minutes away from the devotees in Sydney. Could I go to them to learn about Krishna? The first thing that I was asked when I made contact with the disciple Hari das in Glebe in Sydney was "Who gave you this number?" Apparently the three people that had were not good enough or if he checked with them they did not know me well enough to recommend me.

Instead of being able to study Siddha's teachings in Sydney I had to move across the country to the Gold Coast. The fact I moved in with a devotee was all that let me go to kritans that were not the veiled offerrings of meditation classes at the centres. A stop was very soon put to me being allowed to fo to 'the farm' though.

The lectures that I heard were heard through my 'friend' - I was not allowed to buy lectures from Trancendental Sound because the disciple who runs it Jagganatha dasi did not know me. The devotee that I lived with has done a lot of service making websites and was asked to make one for TS and make it password protected so that just not anyone could gain access to buying the letures.

When I asked him why this was he was very clear on explaining not just anyone can be allowed to have access to lectures and if the 'fags' got hold of them they would use them to expose Siddha as anti gay and this was not an image they wanted to be associated with SOI or the Australian School of Meditation.

Because I was associated with a long term devotee he took me to chants that I was not actually allowed to go to and I was allowed the liberty of going to classes that only those deemed serious were welcome to attend.

Since I have started writing about SOI the Australian School of Meditation has taken down their website. They have begged me to stop what I am doing, and tried to manipulate and threaten me out of it.

I begged the disciples there to tell me that I was the one who was wrong, to see some reason to keep believing in what I had believed in so strongly that I gladly gave up everything that I had to follow Siddha's teachings. I endured the control that was being exerted over my life from the day I got there thinking these people know better than me.

I dearly wanted to preach but I was not allowed. I was told not to wear my japa beads in public or chant my rounds on the long train trips between Brisbane and where I was living. I was chastised for walking to and from kirtan because I believed that Narasingha would not let anything bad happen to me. I didn't lose my faith in Krishna but my faith in Siddha was slowly dragged out of me. Again I begged and pleaded with the people I knew there to help me - their response? NOTHING. The devotees in Sydney where I was living on the streets for months because the disciples on the Gold Coast ordered that I be kicked out of my home because I was living with a man that was not allowed to marry me even if he wanted to - NOTHING I pleaded for Siddha's teachings and nothing came none of this kindness and faithfulness that his followers want to present now in response to what I am doing which is simply telling the truth about what they are like. It is an excuse now to say what I am doing is a reason to ignore me or condemn me, but only the most fallen remember?

If Siddha is a pure devotee that can guide people to Krishna then why doesn't he and his followers do it? Why all the hiding and secrecy? If he sees the end of the world via bird flu and he is so kind and infinitely compassionate then why is he not warning all the poor people of the world so that they might be saved rather than just high secret e-mails to his disciples?

Did you get a bird flu warning Jessica?? Are you defending a spiritual master that has already decided that you are not worthy to be saved?

Have you ever seen Siddha? Written to him? Received any personal guidance from him? Are you just accepting the guidance of his disciples who he says many times over are not perfect?

I have heard it all Siddha says this I heard him so this is what you should do? Should I trust my spiritual life to a game of chinese whisphers?

When I was on the Gold Coast one day I found an injured bird. I picked it up and took it home and thanked Krishna for the reminder that my life was not so bad - I could be this poor creature right? I made prashadam for the bird and put on a chanting CD because I had been taught that hearing the chanting of a pure devotee could liberate an animal soul and allow them to attain to human in their next life. I chanted to my little friend and whisphered to him the names of Krishna as I was sure that he lay dying with nothing I could do. The devotee I lived with was adamant Siddha had given teachings that were I should let the bird die, that I should not have interferred with it and that now I should tip it out of it's box onto the grass and leave it's fate up to Krishna. I didn't. We fought and he condemned my faith. The disciple I spoke to about this because it hurt me so badly said he was wrong because she had heard Siddha say... and condemned his faith. I asked a third disciple and he said they were both somewhat correct.

Not only is it a contradiction to hide Krishna as much as possible - imagine Lord Caitanya instead of dancing in the street whisphering to a few of His chosen psst I know the Absolute Truth, come into this cave and we will roll a rock against the door so that no one can over hear - but when you manage to get into Siddhas cave there are even more contradictions.

In KC one is instructed not to follow blindly, to depend on Krishna in your heart, the scripture and the spiritual master. Two out of three ain't bad and if the third ever decides to come out of hiding than I am there, but I am certainly not holding my breath.

Please try to avoid preaching.

This board is not here to advance any specific belief system, but rather to discuss various groups, leaders and related topics.

I apologise if my last post was construed as preaching.

Yes I see that it can be taken in this way.

I was simply attempting to illustrate that what has already been posted here about Siddhaswarupananda is a version of the truth that is obviously accepted by those that feel the need to post on his behalf and highlight that the features of a cult, manipulation and control of access to information are alive and well in Science of Identity.

All of those who advocate against organisations such as RR and who condemn those who condemn cults make out that it is because detractors and educators are committed atheists and/or do not respect the rights of others to practice their own spiritual beliefs.

Reading in this forum I sense that there are far more people who like myself have strong spiritual beliefs and inclinations and respect others a great deal more than the cult leaders and present followers do by believing that people have the right to know what they are getting themselves into.

Very few here are ignorant because they have experienced the damage of investing their faith in hypocrisy and being manipulated first hand. They have seen others hurt too and know exactly the methodology that is being employed to do this.

I do not wish to preach here and I respect that those are the rules. I think though that when there are those coming here whose only desire is to preach and to attempt to shout down voices of experience that there needs to be some balance put forward. Even if they do not accept it there is the opportunity for others to see that there are two sides and not be led into the duality and have to experience it for themselves.

Yes, listen to the moderator, he or she, is the voice of reason in a world of madness. Thank god for nerd squares, where would we be, but for them.

cultreporter, dont take yourself too seriously, we love you :)

lighten up babe, and forget about that wimp on the Gold Coast, you deserve better ....

Why should cultreporter "forget about the wimp"?

Spreading the word may help others avoid getting hurt and/or assist some in their recovery.