Some folks have mentioned that just focussing on the facts and problems with Byron Katie and her organizations, is not really helping them to break FREE from her thought-reform system, which is a good point.
Only identifying the facts, origins, and specific methods of thought-reform, is not always enough to being to regain one's freedom.

So its probably a good idea to start this thread for new IDEAS, and also cross-post ideas on exactly how to do this from the other uber-thread on Byron Katie. There are many posts in that thread with some good ideas to try.

A good idea would be to keep this thread nice and clean, and stricly on-topic:
- how to KICK-OUT byron katie from your Mind-Soul-Life forever
There will be ideas that would work with many other gurus-kickouts as well.

One point to remember, no one here is acting as a mental health professional, or is dealing with serious issues of that sort. If a person is feeling they can't cope, then please contact a licensed, registered, and experienced mental health professional, who has good references.

Its just people helping people, in a Kick-Out katie cleanse.

Think about her sitting on the toilet and taking a dump.

And struggling to wipe all the dingleberries out.

There are many ways to go about this type of thing, and the great thing is that the methods can apply to other Gurus, anti-guru's as well.

A good way to perhaps organize the methods, would be the standard...

Thoughts
Emotions
Behaviors

There are many cognitive techniques to help, but why not start at the bottom, with behavior?

A person could contact an assertive friend, if needed, who supports their Kick-out cleanse.
They could start with cancelling all monthly automatic donations to the organizations, cancelling all seminars, all online subscriptions, newsletters, and everything else, trying to get the maximum refund where applicable.
Cutting off all the cash.

Of course, they will try every trick in the book to stop you from doing this, but even if a person needs a tough friend to help, that's fine.
If cancelling on the phone, and they are trying to ask you WHY, etc, to try and lure you back in, and mess with your mind, a person could say...

...did you not hear what I said? I have instructed you to immediately cancel _______. I have faxed the cancellation letter in and it was received on ______. Be assertive, and they have to do as they are told.

Some people even have shredded all the old books and papers, whereas some others keep them on file.
Some block the newsletters, spam, advertising, and anything else they can think of. Quit the videos, and audio recordings, just turn it all off, shut it all down.


The other steps would be to use the cognitive and emotive techniques to do an internal kick-out cleanse. There are some other posts of ideas on this in the other thread, which can be transfered over. Kicking them out of the external envoronment is only step 1.
Cleaning house internally, is the next step.

Time to get out the roach-killer.

Great idea!

BTW, corboy, when you got into the discussion on the basal cell carcinoma on Katie's nose--in another thread--and went into detail about the nature of it and the need for having a yearly medical checkup in the nude, the mental pictures in my mind of 'love-bombing; sparkling eyed" Byron Katie changed radically. I have been pretty calm ever since I read that post. For that I thank-you.

Apparently, re-framing everything 'Katie' is the ticket. There are some great ideas on other threads, but they didn't have nearly the power of the latest posts (the dump is good, too) to counteract some of the programming that must have been dormant. Keep it going; it's working.

qd

This thread is an excellent idea!

Although for me, I find that reading all the exposing stuff on how BK operates, as well as the participant reports, helps me a lot.

For some reason, when TAC did a little analysis of Janaki's new guru, Tony Parsons, that really turned a lightbulb on for me.

Now when I come across any of these alleged healers' info, I look for what their SALES PITCH is.

It's very easy to spot now.

Yay!!!

Here is an earlier discussion of BK's own report that she had been treated for stage 2 basal cell carcinoma on her nose.

[forum.culteducation.com]

Folks, this all sounds terrifying.

Just hearing the word 'carcinoma' is enough to panic most people.

But....if you have some medical background, you aint gonna panic.

Instead you know to ask, 'What kind of carcinoma is it?' And then ask, 'Where?'

Basal cell carcinoma on ones nose, even stage 2, is annoying and expensive to treat. But, people, its not something that calls for Alerting the Media, Notifying Your Devotees.

And it isnt a signal to order a coffin and make funeral arrangements. Its treatable.

A corneal transplant is delicate surgery, but it treats or prevents blindness.

Its cause for celebration that treatments of this kind are available.

Its even greater cause for celebration if a person can fricking afford to pay for this.

Now, folks, next time you fret about BK's health...

HOW ABOUT CHECKING YOUR OWN HEALTH?

how are your finances? Are you in debt?

Instead of paying more $$ for BK stuff, save your moola up and get the self empowerment that comes from paying off your debts and hanging onto your money and the delight of being able to sleep at night.

Two,,if you worry about BK's health...ask when you last took yourself to the dentist or doctor for a checkup.

If you keep putting it off, face your fears.

And if you keep putting it off because you cant afford to pay your own bills for preventive medical care..

That means you cannot afford to pay for BK.

She is already rich.

You dont have to worry about her.

Take care of yourself instead of taking care of BK.

She has personal assistants. You do not.

Its a great idea to focus on learning the SALES techniques they use. That is a real life-changer. So studying up on sales is essential, every library has books on Advanced Sales techniques, and persuasion techniques.

also, studying up on LGAT's, Large Group Awareness Training is life-changing too.
This is a great page to start, lots of links from here.

SKEPDIC large group awareness training program (aka self-help and actualization movement)
[skepdic.com]

another important action to take, is to get back any "stuff", if at all possible.

For example, why do they prepare people for days on end, and then get them to hand over a "gift-wrapped gift" of their most valuable and valued possessions?
Its not just about the monetary value of the object for resale, but the emotional value to the person who owns it.

If a person hands over a wedding ring, or a family heirloom, there is a powerful Transference that occurs with those deeply symbolic objects. They are deeply transfering their emotions to Byron Katie.

Why do they get people gift-wrap it? Again, deep symbolic value, of "giving" everything, and its only the beginning.

also, lets face it, if you give someone a "gift" and its gift-wrapped, and photographed as gift-wrapped, they probably own it. Of course one would have to speak to experts if they won't give you your stuff back "voluntarily".
It could have been traded for cash down at Crazy Larry's jewellery exchange long ago.

But to get one's stuff back, would have powerful symbolic value.
Getting one's stuff back, is a powerful symbol of taking one's power back.

of course, the most important methods, are modifying what is going on inside one's own mind and brain.
There are many ways to do that. You can break it into 2 areas, for example.

Images
Language

There have been some previous posts made on this, there are more posts in that thread that can be found when there is time.

IRRT and CBT [forum.culteducation.com]

Basically, you use Active Imagination to rescript images in your own mind. So if the Guru is sitting in your "house" in your mind, you throw them out. This can be a very powerful process, involving strong emotions. Trust your own instincts. And it needs to be repeated many many times, not just once. (notice how BK repeats everything hundreds/thousands of times).
One can even have FUN with it, and imagine BK as a little head on the body of a tiny cockroach, like a bad sci-fi movie.
If her Voice is repeating over and over, modify the voice by turning it into a squeaking noise, like some type of roach. Judo imagery.
Then this imaginary bug can be dispensed of in a way that makes sense, flushing, spraying, fireplace, etc. It can be sent into the sun and disintegrated. (again, it takes daily repetition)
Its a large subject, but the Guru can be kicked-out of your mind, forever.

also, one can start to use positive images that are healthy. One could meditate on the Self as being on something from Nature, like an oak tree, or something without any dang Guru's or anti-guru's in it. Kick all the anti-guru's to the curb.
So replacing all the negative BK imagery, with empowering imagery is essential. Of course, each person has to figure that out for themselves.


In terms of Language,
one has to escape from the cultic doublespeak, and rescript the language.
Byron Katie has all sorts of terms, and specific phrases she uses over and over. You can see those who are into her system, use the exact same phrases and words as she does.
So they can be blocked, by stopping using that type of language, and going against it on purpose, very forcefully.
one could say, I hate cancer, and I don't want to get damn cancer!!
Just make a mockery of her language patterns, jumble them up.


Philosophically:
one can also fight against the fake-philosophy they are selling.
For example, "truth".
One can go an look at what real philosophers have to say on that subject. When one looks at the real literature, one can see why the BK ideas are really just beyond gibberish. Her ideas about "truth" are somewhat like saying the moon is made of green cheese.
Truth (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy) [plato.stanford.edu]
Epistemology (the study of knowledge and justified belief) [plato.stanford.edu]


SOCIAL:
a person can get out of that same social group that only does BK stuff, by joining a club for a hobby unrelated to any of this new agey stuff, basket-weaving classes would be better! :-)
Bird watching, anything but "enlightenment"...we should all take a long vacation from getting enlightened!

Critical Thinking: this website could be read a bit each day. Don't have to agree with it , but its some great stuff.
SkepDic [skepdic.com]
Baloney Detection Kit [www.xenu.net]

Real Cognitive Behavioral Therapy
some real CBT might be helpful, to deal with all of the distorted BK thoughts. They try to say that they are like CBT, but they are not in the least. but anyone can find out for themselves.
CBT has its basis in FACTS and EVIDENCE and Rational thinking, and information gathering.
What is Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy? [www.nacbt.org]
History of Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy [www.nacbt.org]


As far as Ericksonian hypnotherapy, its supposed to be helpful to people, not screw with them. So for something interesting, maybe check out some of the real deal.

Milton Erickson and Cactus therapy
[forum.culteducation.com]

Stories by Milton Erickson
(the Stories, are not just stories, they are multi-level unconscious communication, maybe the local library has this book, My Voice Will Go With You)
[www.nyseph.org]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/03/2009 10:48AM by The Anticult.

Here is a multimodal Ericksonian Story, Teaching Tale, induction, etc..It could be studied in great detail.
The story, is not just a story. If anything, its closer to something like a fairy tale, but with current characters, for the time it was written. The story was told to others, for the impact it has, within a larger symbolic communication. For example, the CACTI was a symbol he used in many ways, for a human self, and how a cacti could be healed, grown, and made healthy, transplanted...
also, a healthy cacti has some SPIKES on it, to keep away predators...if ya know what I mean...(don't let some predator get you to cut off all your healthy spikes).
a cacti is tough...yet soft, it has resources...etc.
Again, the simple story, is very profound and can be looked at in many symbolic ways.


Sadly, sadly, anyone who knows Milton Erickson's work, can see how some of the BK gang corrupted and perverted parts of his methods to use them for their own purposes. Even down to the "stories" and "desert" motifs, "purple" clothes, and almost everything else, for that matter. Its all from Erickson.
Its truly awful to see his work perverted and warped like it has been, but people need to know what is being done to them.

Erickson was probably a genius, and he helped many people, and he was an MD and a registered hypnotherapist, and a leader in his field, and an artist. One of the greats.

So here is a wonderful story. This is .001 of a percent of what he did.
The book, My Voice Will Go With You is very readable.

__________________________________________
[www.nyseph.org]
"CACTI" by Milton Erickson

Usually I send alcoholic patients to AA because AA can do a better job than I can do. An alcoholic came to me and he said, "My grandparents on both sides were alcoholics; my parents were alcoholics; my wife's parents were alcoholics; my wife is an alcoholic and I have a had delirium tremors eleven times. I am sick of being an alcoholic. My brother is an alcoholic too. Now that is a hell of a job for you. What do you think you can do about it?"

I asked him what his occupation was.

"When I am sober I work on a newspaper. And alcohol is an occupational hazard there."

I said, "All right, you want me to do something about it---with that history. Now, the thing I am going to suggest to you won't seem the right thing. You go out to the Botanical Gardens. You look at all the cacti there and marvel at cacti that can survive three years without water, without rain. And do a lot of thinking."

Many years later a young woman came in and said,"Dr. Erickson, you knew me when I was three years old. I moved to California when I was three years old. Now I am in Phoenix and I came to see what kind of a man you were---what you looked like."

I said, "Take a good look, and I'm curious to know why you want to look at me."

She said, "Any man who would send an alcoholic out to the Botanical Gardens to look around, to learn how to get around without alcohol, and have it work, is the kind of man I want to see! My mother and father have been sober ever since you sent my father out there."

"What is your father doing now?"

"He's working for a magazine. He got out of the newspaper business. He says the newspaper business has an occupational hazard of alcoholism."

Now, that was a nice way to cure an alcoholic. Get him to respect cacti that survive three years without rain. You see you can talk about your textbooks. Today you take up this much. Tomorrow you take up that much. They say you do such and such. But actually you ought to look at your patient to figure out what kind of a man he is ---or woman--then deal with the patient in a way that fits his or her problem, his or her unique problem.

This story is a beautiful example of indirect suggestion, applied symbolically.

_______________________________



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/03/2009 11:10AM by The Anticult.