one other idea wanted to drop in to remember...to counteract the negativity...
is to find some other method or practice that is positive, and helpful, to replace the damaging BK stuff. and to make sure its not another damaging new agey guru culty thing!

If anyone has any ideas, please add them in.

Since the BK junk involves writing things down, then one could perhaps move to doing some of the written exercises in the Dr. David Burns books, on cognitive behavioral therapy, which have been proven to help people.
like in the excellent Feeling Good Handbook.

He even has a new book out on relationships, which is getting good reviews. Most libraries should have it.
Feeling Good Together [www.amazon.com]


Also, from another thread.

Recovering from New Age Mumbo Jumbo
[forum.culteducation.com]

There is Positive Psychology [www.ppc.sas.upenn.edu]

the free ebook Psychological Self-Help seemed pretty decent in the past.
[www.psychologicalselfhelp.org]

The Baloney Detection Kit by Carl Sagan is great. [users.tpg.com.au]

I’ve been casually following this site for some time now, and to be upfront, I’ve also been “following” Byron Katie since December 2004, when I first discovered her book Loving What Is and realized just who she might be. In June 2007 I went to the 9-Day School for The Work in Trumbull, CT, and I’d like to say that it’s absolutely nothing like what is frequently described here. I hope you have the integrity to publish this side of the story.

What are you guys smoking that makes you so paranoid? There is nothing coming from Katie that could remotely be described as brainwashing. What’s going on in The Work and at The School is deconstruction of what Charles Tart, the country’s leading authority on transpersonal psychology, calls consensus trance. Katie calls what The Work does “Unknowing.” And we have an enormous amount of cultural bullshit to deconstruct and Unknow. The Work is a perfect pragmatic method to put the principles of Advaita Vedanta into practice in everyday life, and end suffering. Completely. Forever.

There is no pressure to conform at The School.
No loss of personal items.
No starvation.
No brainwashing.
No hypnosis.
No cult.

Yes. There's too much money involved. So? What's new?

Keep scoffing. You’re missing the boat to the other side. She is exactly who I thought she was. Me.


Jim Dodds



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/28/2009 09:23PM by rrmoderator.

JimDodds:

Please don't post contact information.

Read the rules, which you agreed to before posting here.

Also, name calling directed against members of the board is against the rules.

Personal attacks are not on topic.

The topic of this thread is Byron Katie.

Regarding the 9 day school, there is a participants report on this other venue.
It runs to six pages, as of today and many attempts were made to disrupt the discussion, including the kind of ad hominem attacks that are against the rules of use on RR.com.

[guruphiliac.lefora.com]

The person wrote in detail. And began by saying

Quote

Just completed Byron Katie's 9 Day School (March '09). I am disappointed to report that the information on Rick Ross's site is accurate...and, if anything, understated.

and there is this from someone who worked 11 years for BK.

From Janaki's descriptins, BK did not seem to be at all a happy person.

[janakisstory.wordpress.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/28/2009 10:06PM by corboy.

Quote
JimDodds
Keep scoffing. You’re missing the boat to the other side. She is exactly who I thought she was. Me.

Jim Dodds

If she is "me" as in you, why not sign your post "Byron Katie"?

A fair question, I think.

Yes, I dare to think and use my wonderful mind to assess all manner of things, including Byron Katie's "work".

In my world, "loving what is" includes loving my thinking mind.

How very interesting that Mr. Dodd claims he's been "casually following this site".

Casually?

Is it accurate to use the word "casually" when Jim Dodd can be found on Byron Katie's blog, saying, "Yesterday, I sponsored a workshop on The Work at The Yoga Loft in Waitsfield, Vermont"? He also says he wants to "make The Work available to more people".

[[url=http://www.byronkatie.com/2007/04/the_school_for_the_work_april.htm]The School for The Work: April 2007[/url]]

Bottom line... Mr. Dodds has a BIG ol' interest in spreading The Work.

Imagine that.

Here is Mr. Dodd's blog comment at ByronKatie.com in full:

Notes on A Workshop
5/29/2007

Dear Katy,
Interesting. I just misspelled workshop as “worshop,” which showed me an intriguing connection to the idea of “worship.”

Yesterday, I sponsored a workshop on The Work at The Yoga Loft in Waitsfield, Vermont. I invited Jim Frank from Malvern Sweat Lodge in Pennsylvania to present The Work as I don’t yet feel able to present it really well myself. We had 21 people attend, and I’m pleased with the results. People seemed like they got a good taste of what The Work is, and I did what I intended, which was…

1. Make The Work available to more people.
2. Watch someone more experienced than I am do the presenting, and not interfere.
3. Get some more ideas about how The Work Works, and how I want to present it.

One of the issues that keep coming up is something like, “I’m trying in my life not to be judgmental, and this work asks me to begin by Judging My Neighbor.” I didn’t think of it during the workshop, but it occurred to me last night that, when this question comes up, I could ask, “Haven’t you been doing a lot of work reinforcing the judgment that judging is a bad thing?”

The real point I think is that we all continue to judge, constantly, even if consciously we’re only judging ourselves for being judgmental. The Work asks us if we want to believe those judgments, which occur spontaneously, without any forethought or intention. What The Work reveals to me is that our judging, and our thinking, is naïve, spontaneous and childlike, and that we are each entangled in a huge blanket of judgments and beliefs that we’ve been weaving around ourselves since we were tiny children.

If we deny and resist this process all we really do is drive it underground. If we let our beliefs and judgments express themselves, freshly and just as they are, and then question them, we start to unlearn things, unburden ourselves, unbecome all the things that are troubling us about how we encounter the world.

I love things I can’t stand! What a rich experience of frustration and righteousness! And now I can use those things, which used to be the walls of my prison, as the keys to unlock all the doors! I spent three days with you at Kripalu last summer, and an evening at Zen Peacemakers last fall, and I’m coming to The School in Trumbull. Keep asking me if it’s true, Katie.

Jim Dodds

Posted by Jim Dodds | May 29, 2007 5:12 PM

Mr. Dodds, sir... if you truly "love the things I can't stand", then just love us here at Rick Ross's forum!

It's all about the thoughts inside YOU, isn't it?!

Ah, but who are you? Jim Dodds or Byron Katie?

"She is exactly who I thought she was. Me."



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/28/2009 10:09PM by helpme2times.

PS Here is a way to get BK out of your mind.

Keep a bottle of windex or alcohol gel handwash by your computer, and some paper towels or kleenex.

(A roll of TP is even better)

If BK's mug shows up on any website you frequent, spray with your cleaner.

Wipe. Toss into trash.

Repeat as needed

This will guarantee you not only have a newly cleaned mind, but a clean computer screen, too.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/28/2009 10:14PM by corboy.

Just like you do? Good grief, man! Do you think that someone sees Katie as not human?

Quote
JimDodds
Just like you do? Good grief, man! Do you think that someone sees Katie as not human?

What on earth are you referring to?

If you want to be understood, you will need to quote which words sparked your reaction.

Quote
JimDodds
Do you think that someone sees Katie as not human?

Who is this "someone" you are referring to?

Hey Jim Dodds,
...why don't you do The Work on your own comments?
According to Byron Katie, your comments are really all about YOU, right?
According to your own alleged practice of the Work, your thoughts are NOT true, and you should question them, and erase them, and do a turnaround on them, right?

So that would make your thoughts...paranoid, angry, defensive, misleading, etc. Right?
So that would mean that The Work, is not working then?

Also, you say the BK seminar is absolutely nothing like described by others? Again, that conflicts 100% even with The Work, as you can believe whatever you experience, right? There is no reality or truth according to Byron Katie, except the one she tells you, that is.
(of course the reports are all factual, and carefully spelled-out, and have been proven).

so if we were Byron Katie, we would just Turnaround all your thoughts on YOU, and blame YOU for being so paranoid, angry, defensive, and misleading...right? According to Byron Katie, this is 100% your fault, as you are arguing with reality, and so you lose 100% of the time.
According to BK, can't you see its all about you?

Now of course we know that Byron Katie is a manipulator, and that the Work by Byron Katie is a manipulative system, and is false, deceptive and damaging to many people.


QUOTE: "Do you think that someone sees Katie as not human?"

Jim, why are you trying to deny what Byron Katie says in her own books? She clearly represents herself as a type of "walk-in" spirit, and even as some type of WomanChrist. Of course, she hires other people to say these things about her, and then says in her writings that "others" say she is some enlightened being. Its a mind-game she plays.
Also, her partner Michael Katz has said she is like Mary Poppins, who is a supernatural being from another dimension. He said it in print.
["was it Mary Poppins crossed with a Zen master?"] [forum.culteducation.com]
So why are you not being honest about something that is in print? Isn't that a little strange?


There are several more false statements in the comments by Jim Dodds.
He says its a "consensus trance" but there is no hypnosis! Hypnosis is about Trance states. So again, a false statement, proven by his own comment!

It has been detailed in these threads that Byron Katie is doing a very sophisticated and powerful forms of deep covert persuasion. That is a FACT. Just waving your hands is not going to change that.

You say the Work can "end suffering. Completely. Forever."

That is not brainwashing? That is not fanaticism? That is not utterly false?
Of course it is. You cannot end suffering completely, forever, that is extreme fanaticism at best, and is dangerous dishonesty and deception.

there is massive pressure to socially conform, people have given away valuable items as has been proven, people are not eating for up to 2 days and having too little protein, (which is a brainwashing technique by the way).
Byron Katie is an expert at trance and waking hypnotherapy, using Strange Stories.
Byron Katie has constructed a large cultic organization around her.

Money, there is massive amounts of money involved due to the greed of Byron Katie and Stephen Mitchell. They set the prices.

But regardless, these posts by Jim Dodds are important.
They show that some of the people who get deeply involved in promoting The Work either to get approval from Byron Katie, or for money, can be very extreme, and even fanatical.
Saying the Work can "end suffering. Completely. Forever." is an absolutist, extremist statement, which also happens to be utterly false.

So this is why people have to be very suspicious of all of the BKI people, and avoid those who are deeply indoctrinated into the BK system.
They will brazenly deny objective reality and facts, they don't even apply The Work to themselves but expect others to do so, and their comments even conflict with their own comments.
They clearly have no regard for objective facts.
They constantly attack others for criticizing Byron Katie, yet Byron Katie makes millions and she provides ZERO EVIDENCE for ANY of her claims, and has fabricated her backstory. Why not question Byron Katie? Because they have been programmed not to.

So this is yet more hard evidence to avoid BKI people at all costs, whether they appear soft and sickly-sweet, or whether they are aggressive.
Can you imagine what would happen, if a person was deeply confused about what was happening to them in the Byron Katie thought-reform system, and they were met with this type of response, or the type of confusion tactics from Stephen Mitchell?
[manipulative tactics from Stephen Mitchell in email] [forum.culteducation.com]

Its not possible to even have a proper discussion with them, as they don't even apply the BK Work to themselves, and they certainly don't follow the rules of evidence.
Their primary tactic when dealing with the mountain of hundreds of FACTS about Byron Katie, is to try to DENY them all at once, usually using an Ad-Hominem tactic, and extreme overgeneralizations, based on false-statements. Frankly, that is the only thing they can do, as they CANNOT deal with the objective facts one by one. They have to try and deny them.
They can't deal with the hundreds of facts, so they attempt to make extreme overgeneralizations based on false-comments, which they hope will short-circuit the thinking processes of BK followers who are confused about what is happening to them.

[Warning: about the manipulation and persuasion tactics of Byron Katie spin-doctors] [forum.culteducation.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/29/2009 06:06AM by The Anticult.