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waterbottle
I went to a "therapist" for 2 years that started using Katie Byrons work on me and I didn't realize it. She finally recommended Katie's book to me and I realized that was her entire schtick.

I went off to a Buddhist school and wound up having an existential crisis and was TOTALLY messed up. So I sought therapy, but didn't find the traditional therapist I was seeing had any idea how to talk to me about the things I was processing.

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Curiosity and the desire to keep feeling what I was feeling dragged me on.

A few months after the first time I tried it, I saw online that there was a School for The Work coming up in Los Angeles. I'm required to take continuing education to maintain my professional license, and I learned that I could get credit for going. Everything seemed to be pointing me in that direction. Above all, was this feeling like I absolutely needed to know what was going there. I couldn't ignore the feelings I had that told me something was wrong, and I felt compelled to find out for sure.

Here is full text of the article jj wrote on February 28, 2008 07:04PM

[forum.culteducation.com]

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A woman I was acquainted with, Sherry, gave me Byron Katie's book on CD to borrow. Of course, it was one of those "You need this, take it" kind of borrows... it's not like I asked for it. Sherry was the member of a small cult-like group downtown, who worshipped her guru and was always looking for recruits, handing out free advice and instruction in spite of her lack of credentials, and was prone to angry outbursts that had no cause, from what I could see. She was one of those people that I usually avoided, and didn't want much to do with. So, when she thrust the book upon me, I didn't take it very seriously.

I put it on my bookshelf, and there it sat for over a year collecting dust. I was going through a difficult time with my in-law family, which strangely operates like a cult with the mother-in-law (a follower of Eckancar) at the helm. (I actually started learning about cults in order to know how to deal with my in-laws, and how to help my husband escape their grasp.) Mother-in-law had decided that my marriage was "bad", and needed to end. I was being literally attacked on all sides: my husband's brothers, father, mother, grandparents, and cousins were going through some pretty scary motions to try to convince my husband to leave me and "go back to his mother." I was being criticized, blamed, shamed-- even accused of being in league with the devil and of trying to destroy the family...very much like cult members would do... and I started to feel like I was falling apart. The attacks were wearing on me. I was pretty desperate for a way out.

Every time I tried to talk to someone about the situation, they would tell me to "try to get along" with my in-laws... but these people were not normal, and did not want to "get along" with me. Eventually my husband stopped having any communication with them altogether, and they launched a massive assault on me... complete with libelous websites with my picture and letters to people in my community that were full of slanderous garbage. Suffice it to say, I was desperate... and because of the Eckancar-style brainwashing I was enduring at the time, I was very vulnerable.

One day I was sitting here bawling my eyes out, and racking my brain for a solution. I was willing to try anything. I looked up and saw BK's book on CD on the shelf. I was desperate, and thought maybe it could help. By now, it's promises were sounding pretty good. I took it out, and listened to the very beginning... to BK's story about her "awakening." I pondered it most of the day. That night when my husband got home, I showed him what I had been listening to, and said, "There is something evil and wrong about this. I can't put my finger on it, but it's NOT right."

The next day, still desperate for a solution, I decided to give it another try. I listened to BK doing The Work with a few people. They seemed happy in the end. I decided to try a worksheet... what harm could it do? I started with something small... a misunderstanding with a friend. I came to see that I was at fault, and I hadn't thought so previously. I wrote an apology to my friend, and felt some peace. It took a few more tries before I was willing to try it on my in-laws.

Lo and behold, I discovered that everything was all my fault, and I was filled with a strange sense of love and appreciation for my in-laws. I wrote them apologies (which was offered by the in-laws as evidence that I was guilty of their insane accusations, and worked against me in the end.) I kept "testing" it and doing The Work on other situations, and strangely... it seemed to work. I learned that I was responsible for so many things that I hadn't known before, and suddenly felt in control of my life in a different way. I read BK's website, watched the videos, and occasionally would be very turned off by something she said. I would tell my husband repeatedly that something was evil about this, but couldn't identify what it was. Curiosity and the desire to keep feeling what I was feeling dragged me on.

A few months after the first time I tried it, I saw online that there was a School for The Work coming up in Los Angeles. I'm required to take continuing education to maintain my professional license, and I learned that I could get credit for going. Everything seemed to be pointing me in that direction. Above all, was this feeling like I absolutely needed to know what was going there. I couldn't ignore the feelings I had that told me something was wrong, and I felt compelled to find out for sure.

So, once there, I made a commitment to myself to comply with every single thing BK asked of us. When she said "turn in your cell phones," I didn't like it, but I was committed to finding out what this was all about. I surrendered to the program and "followed the simple directions" through and through. So, it was all pretty easy for me, I guess. I didn't have a lot of resistance to the process, which gave me A LOT of time to just sit back and observe. I journaled and read my books at night before I turned in. (Okay, that's the one thing I didn't comply with. We were told not to read or listen to anything that wasn't BKs.) I think that kept me grounded in myself. I complied with the aftercare program, and continued to do worksheets and exercises from The School for months afterward... we were taught that The Work could be done on past events, as well as present. So, I started sifting through my past and questioning everything.

I reached a point where the obvious turnarounds didn't feel true anymore... and I had to look deeper for what was true. By doing the Worksheets, I started to see things that I hadn't seen before... like the fact that BK was an "anti-Christ". Yep, that came about in my turnarounds. I also started to see how manipulative my in-laws were, and how what they were doing to me was breaking down my sense of self. I realized that The Work isn't supposed to work this way... but I had to find what was TRUE. And, this was obviously what was true. There were times when nothing even turned around.

It was around this time when I discovered that if I tried to turnaround a stressful thought like, "My mother-in-law is evil" to myself... I would break down into tears, and feel nauseated. I came to realize that this was my own way of letting myself know that... well, that my mother-in-law IS evil... and the fact that she was constantly tearing me down is what caused my stress. It had nothing to do with my thoughts. It was my body's way of saying, "Hey, JJ... this stuff is not in your best interest."

BK says that until you get to the point where you can see your enemy as your friend, you're not done with your Work.

Wrong. When you get to the point where you can see that your enemies really are your enemies and the cause of your stress, you're done with The Work.

I realized that if I were to see my in-laws as friends, I would lose my marriage, my home, and everything that is sacred and valuable to me. It's just not smart to call your enemies friends... and to fail to see how they are hurting you... and to let them keep doing it. It's pretty dumb, actually... unrealistic, and potentially harmful to your own well-being. (However, I realize how this belief could be valuable for BK among her followers.) I came to understand that what The Work was doing to people... was really messed up in this way.

Sort of like:"Someone raped you? Oh, he was your friend, can't you understand that? He did it out of love, and when you see that, you'll be enlightened."


So, I threw away everything I had from The School. I didn't want that garbage in my house anymore. (Clearing it out of my mind hasn't been as easy.) And, I broke off all contact with School participants.

I stumbled upon some information about cult-like families somewhere around that time. It was just a little bit of information, so I started looking for information on cults. I wanted to understand what was happening to me. I ordered books by Margaret Singer, Madeleine Tobias, Steve Hassan, etc. [See disclaimer below concerning Steve Hassan and why this Web site does not recommend him] I searched online and visited every cult information website I could find to keep learning... because everything I learned made SO MUCH sense in the context of my in-law family... and The School for The Work. I shared what I was learning with my husband, and we have made a permanent clean break from his entire family. I have no illusions about this: they are a cult unto themselves, and my husband and I are getting out for good. Byron Katie and The Work would have had me stay in the situation, and "love" the destruction of myself, my husband, and our marriage.

In all my searching, I found this forum.

And now, it all makes so much sense. Now I know why I had that feeling that something was evil and wrong with BK. Now I understand what's happened to me. Now I know why I was so easily sucked in. And, I'm finally finding the solutions I was looking for all along.

I really needed to hear from other people who can see through The Work and BK's LGAT. At the School, there was no validation for what I was seeing and experiencing. This forum has been a great blessing to me... so thank you. ALL of you. Even ralpher. I'm learning more all the time. jj

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February 28, 2008 11:18PM
By saying Byron Katie is an "anti-Christ"...

I mean that I literally came to see how she was subtly talking people out of their Christian belief systems. She did The Work with people who were concerned about evil and the devil, and had completely convinced them afterward that evil did not exist, nor did the devil or any dark forces, whatever you choose to call them.

I asked one woman, while on my quest to understand this, how it made her feel when BK told her there was no devil. She said it really helped her, and then went on to talk about her Christian beliefs, and how she had realized they were all wrong.

But, The Work is advertised as being able to enhance anyone's religion, and is supposedly compatible with all religions. Not true. The only religion is it compatible with is that solipsism thing... and probably only BK's version of it.

Remember the excerpt from her website where they compared "The Secret" to The Work? The Work isn't even compatible with the Law of Attraction, for those who believe in it.

I'm not an expert on the Bible, but I know enough to know that the role of an "anti-Christ" is to lead people away from their beliefs in God. Whatever a person's beliefs are about God, through The Work, they may find them slipping away.

All in all, it really doesn't suit her purposes to let people believe whatever they want. She needs them to believe in her to keep her empire growing. And, she does lead people in that direction with The Work.

While I was writing that story, I remembered that we were not allowed to read or listen to anything that wasn't Byron Katie. I broke that rule, and thank goodness. But... what purpose could this possibly serve? I think it was partially to isolate us from even our own religious beliefs. (We weren't to read ANYTHING that wasn't Byron Katie. My roommate actually turned in a Bible she had brought.) Her teachings were supposed to be the only thing we heard for 9 days.

That may not sound like a long time... but it was the longest 9 days of my life.

-jj

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/28/2008 11:19PM by jj52.

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Let's not forget that she had a facelift. How is THAT loving what is? She is a walking contradiction, yes.

Of course, at first she tells you (in the book) to question only the thoughts that cause suffering. At The School it becomes very apparent that the key to real freedom (ahem) is to question all of your thoughts, and to realize that everything is nothing.

-jj

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You said that right. BK tells you that eventually The Work becomes automatic. I've experienced that myself. At the School, we trained our brains to automatically flip reality around. I'm still struggling to get it to stop... and just hang onto my thoughts for awhile. Doing the worksheets, writing it down, is a good way to train your mind to do it on it's own.

I remember doing an Assertiveness Workbook once... that was written by legitimate counselors and was very helpful. In it, you were supposed to write out a little worksheet for every encounter you had where assertiveness was needed. The idea was that the more you wrote it out, the more it had a certain impact on your mind, and the more automatic assertive responses would become.

I think writing out The Work is for the same purpose, but that's not what people are told. People are told that writing it out helps you because your mind will try to get away with stuff, but writing it out prevents that from happening.

You mean, my mind will try to tell me this isn't right if I don't write it down? But when I write it down, it will become more solidified in my mind, and I won't be able to escape it?

Talking to BK followers is a real mind-warp because they do turn everything you say around on you. Some will accuse you of things, tell you turn stuff around, but then not do it themselves. (ralpher) It leaves you feeling like you've been hit in the face by a bus. I remember feeling frustrated with people the last few days of the School, and not wanting to talk to them... because every time I said something someone would reply "Is it true?" and then pick apart what I'd said, telling me what I need to question.

They tend to all act like YOUR personal counselor.

Or your personal deconstructor, depending on how you look at it.

-jj

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from Corboy Yet another research resource:

Get, and read Prophetic Charisma 1997 Syracuse University Press by Len Oakes. Oakes is a research psychologist/clinician and after being in a commune led by a charismatic leader, he left, and decided to research how people become charismatic leaders.

Oakes was able to interview 20 charismatic leaders* and found amazing similarities in their life trajectories. All had difficulty with ordinary intimacy with peers, and compensated by becoming avid students of social manipulation/communication. Quite a few were in previous careers as entertainers, musicians, teachers, and in some cases, business.

(Several other leaders refused to expose themselves to scrutiny and declined to participate in Oakes study. One, who never met Oakes in person, presumed to tell LO that his life was meaningless)

All were risk takers, and learned how to stay on top of all that went on in their groups. They could talk their way out of awkward situations and learned how to identify even the slightest bit of hesitation in an adversary or potential recruit and then, throw that person off balance.

'A common manipulative strategy used by leaders in this study was an argumentative style that was calculated to subtly shift the ground of any discussion from whatever matter was being talked about toward some area of an opponents personal insecurity. In this technique, the leader observed the process of an opponent's conversation and identified some point of hesitency and uncertainy. This was not always a flaw of logic or error of fact; the conversation may have been on some topic about which the leader would have known little and been unable to detect such a mistake. Rather, it was more likely to be some personal unsureness on the part of the opponent, that the leader's exquisite social perception targeted.

'...Typically what was said (by the leader) was an observation that the opponent seemed to be "a bit steamed up about this" or was "finding it hard to say what this is all about." In this was, the opponent was invited, sympathetically and seductively, to expand upon the very point of weakness.

'Or the leader claimed not to understand what was meant at a particular point, perhaps even saying that the opponent was not making sense.

'This usually lead to a further exposure, and then another, until the opponent stumbled over his words and began to look uncomfortable. At thsi point a well time dismissive glance from the leader was all that was needed to intimidate, the other person being glad to have the subject changed to how he might redeem his soul or however...'

(Oakes, pp 89-90)

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I have very mixed feelings about Katie and her “work”. I’ve been reading her books and watching her vids for months before I went to Ojai to spend a month in her Turnaround House program. So I have more than enough experience with her and her staff, having spent hours and hours with them every day for a month.

Having come out of that – I can with certainty say that there are elements of a cult in there and that there are many things that are simply dangerous about this “work”. These people who are her staff at the TAH have been doing “the work” for more than 10 years and none of them are even close to being like Katie. They’re still filling out worksheets with the most childish, superficial thoughts that beginners are working on (eg. He doesn’t care about me, he shouldn’t wanna have sex with me, my mom/dad did xyz to me…you get the point!). And these people are doing this all day long, for years and years – and they’re still believing these thoughts.

Another thing is that these people who get sucked into it – for the most part abandon their previous lives and put all their energy into the work – questioning their thoughts becomes their religion, their new occupation, and everything in life becomes secondary. This is something Katie actually encourages – as if nothing in life matters, but doing her “work” until you don’t believe anything anymore. In this cult, believing a thought, ANY thought is the worst crime one can commit and it’s almost ridiculed, no matter what the thought is.

Furthermore, Katie talks about “remarkable, miraculous transformations” that take place in the lives of people who come out of Turnaround House. I can tell you that out of the 6-7 people who were there at the same time as I, they all came out pretty much the way they came in. We all kept in touch, and after the initial first few weeks wore off, all of them had negative thoughts about the program, Katie and her “work”. There were two alcoholics in the program who were back to drinking, a heavily depressed person who went back to seeing all kinds of therapists, life coaches and attending different spiritual retreats…They were all the same, no “miraculous transformations” happening at all! There was only this one guy, who got totally sucked into it and now acts like a happy vegetable, it’s quite disturbing actually. He turned into a person that can’t hold a normal conversation with anybody – everything that comes out of his mouth has to do with “the work”, and thoughts, and feelings, literally! And of course, now he’s become very active with Katie’s cult and he’s at every event, he event helped produce her movie “Turn It Around”. He offered to volunteer at her No Body event, just to have the opportunity to be around the whole cult crowd.

So anyway, I could go on and on talking about this endlessly – but these are just some of the things that came to my mind right now. Would be happy to contribute more another time. But just to wrap it up, I definitely think Katie’s “work” works for people who are desperate enough to believe anything – or more accurately – believe nothing, even things that are facts. It does help alleviate pain, but it turns you into a stupid, devoid of intellect person – who doesn’t care what happens. Like Katie once said: “if a person walked into the room and said he’s going to throw a bomb, I get to be, and you get to run” – she doesn’t believe her thoughts (eg. the bomb is going to kill me, i’m going to die etc.) and she would just sit there, she wouldn’t take action to stay alive – since she doesn’t believe she exists at all, and says life isn’t real anyway. So if this is the kind of “understanding” one is interested in, then Katie and her stuff might very well be for you.

xx

June 1st, 2010 at 10:30 am