this most recent report is very interesting.

The pitch that most LGAT's make is just "exercise your free will". but here's the problem. The LGAT's are world class experts at powerful social influence, and most of it is not even visible to most people, unless you have the training, which is every hard to come by.

But to be honest, this is one of the first LGAT's, where they go as far as calling your hotel room, and take a role call. But the instruction from Byron Katie about being carried into the seminar, is actually not strange at all. BK knows, that many people are literally going to have complete emotional breakdowns, and not be able to move, due to Trauma PTSD being activated. So it just shows she knows what is going to happen to people. They want the person carried into the room, so she can continue the full LGAT persuasion process. Its not strange at all, in terms of the LGAT process. If you are half conscious, that can be better for them, as the unconscious material can work better. Very standard stuff.

Also, just refusing to do the various exercises at LGAT's, is very difficult, due to the social pressures. Some people are able to get free tickets to many LGAT's, through contacts. So one could go to all these LGAT seminars, and sit near the back and take careful notes and observe their methods.
In every single case, participants and staff, would approach you constantly, to try and force you to "play along". You can say no, 100x, and they keep coming back, as they are taught. In most cases, people get at minimal angry, to outright verbally HOSTILE at you, even try to throw you out. So its not easy, even for a professional, to not "play along".
So when they say its all optional, its yet another trick of the LGAT.

These LGAT seminars are extremely tricky, even for trained professionals. They hit you will 100 techniques, from all sides at once. You can only be conscious of SOME, not all of them.
By attending the LGAT, its a Win/Win for the LGAT people. As you may get converted to their system, or at minimum they have your $5,000, for nothing.

But please, never listen to LGAT promoters, who say..."just say no". Its bullshit, and they know its bullshit, which is why they say it! :-)
You can't say NO to everything coming at you from all sides at once, even a professional can get duped at times. The only way to really not get hit at all, is to be so detached, that you stand out like a sore thumb. Then they usually harass you, and even with throw you out, as they think you are a "spy" from another LGAT trying to steal their techniques.

its interesting how the Byron Katie LGAT system, and other thought-reform systems, make the claim its all about voluntary free-choice.
But, you can't have voluntary free-choice without full disclosure.
You certainly can't have voluntary free choice, with extreme SECRECY, and outright misdirection, and dishonesty.

So if groups, like the BK LGAT system, really did believe in voluntary free-choice, they would not conceal what they are doing. They would disclose it openly.
But instead, what they do is hide what is really going on, and even program their own people not to tell others what went on in the seminar. (that is literally the first step in training people to lie for them).

So in reality, in order for people to make a voluntary free-choice, they need to understand what is going on. They need to be aware of the dozens of persuasion techniques being used on them.

How many people who attended a Byron Katie seminar in the past, had ever even heard of an LGAT seminar, and its techniques? If someone asked that question at one of her seminars in the past, there is a good chance that ZERO people attending would have ever even HEARD about these seminars.
Never mind understanding the powerful persuasion techniques being used.

There is no voluntary free-choice, when there is powerful persuasion engineering bombarding people from every side at once. There is no free-choice in unawareness. There is no free-choice if the FINE PRINT is hidden, and not disclosed.
Only after a person understands how the dozens of precise persuasion techniques work, can they make a real voluntary decision and free choice.

The interesting thing here, with the Byron Katie system, is that their own words, if studied, reveal what they are doing. The very fact they have gone to such great lengths to hide their persuasion methods, shows that they understand that conscious awareness of these methods effects the persuasion process.
Once people can see exactly how someone is persuading and manipulating them, it really doesn't work very well. That is well studied. It can still work, but its probably 90% less effective on most people. Which is why they always try to distract the "thinking mind" from thinking about the techniques being used!
In this case, they even go so far as to pretend there are no techniques.

Many other LGAT's, will admit to SOME techniques to fill the minds of the attendees, while hiding the more powerful techniques, to retain their full power.
But its rare they try to hide all of their techniques. The only way to really do that, is to claim the seminar leader is some mystical intuitive savant, who never read books or seminar manuals, or attended many dozens of seminars, and copied their methods, then customized them!
;-)

But there is no free-choice, when the consent is being carefully engineered.
That is what the art of persuasion is.

The ability of the leader to get people to do what she wants them to do, and have them think it was their own idea.

Be a Secret Santa--dont give advance notice that you're gonna break taboos and disclose toxic family secrets.

[forum.culteducation.com]

You dont have to post here, if you do not want to.

but where ever you post, if you decide its time to reveal secrets that others want to keep hidden--

Get preparation. Talk to an attorney

Two, make sure you have the physical and mental stamina to deal with the anxiety and flak that are the package of negative emotions you'll be in for when daring to speak truth to oppressive power.

Three, wherever you post, people will be interested in what you read. Make sure you can deal with that.

Quote
corboy
Be a Secret Santa--dont give advance notice that you're gonna break taboos and disclose toxic family secrets.

[forum.culteducation.com]

You dont have to post here, if you do not want to.

but where ever you post, if you decide its time to reveal secrets that others want to keep hidden--

Get preparation. Talk to an attorney

Two, make sure you have the physical and mental stamina to deal with the anxiety and flak that are the package of negative emotions you'll be in for when daring to speak truth to oppressive power.

Three, wherever you post, people will be interested in what you read. Make sure you can deal with that.

Good advice, corboy. Keeping the anonymity intact is like a "tight-wire walk" for many of us, since our story itself might be recognizable to the ones we wish to keep away from. It's a worthy undertaking, though, and I personally relish the challenges. After all, it was this forum, and the posts in it, that aided in my escape from the horrific agenda of the Katie-monster.

qd

A final bit of advice: SOmeone might appear saying they are a journalist and would invite contact from persons willling to supply information.

In case someone appears here, or on any venue where BK-land is being discussed, and the person saying they are a journalist asks people to help contribute to an article--
The same advice given in Secret Santa applies.

Is the person actually a journalist?

Are they capable of protecting the anonymity of those they interview and quote?

Are they in a state that has a shield law for journalists, and do they qualify for coverage under that law?

Is there already a publication interested in the article, (Call them up and verify this)

If the article is never published, or your material is not included in that article, will your information just sit there in that persons files and if so, can that person protect your anonymity?

Are they backed up by the resources and legal staff of a well established media entity?


Two, check their previous articles. Have they done other articles in this same field?
Do they know the stressors of handling a hot topic?

(New Yorker magazine and Liz Harris, who wrote the expose article O Guru, Guru, about Siddha/Syda yoga--you bet. That magazine and reporter would already have been stress tested. But a freelance writer with thin experience in these matters-not necessarily)

Always talk to a lawyer before contacting a journalist.

Even if its just the neighborhood legal clinic, go there.

Record the interview and make sure your equipment works before the appointment.

I would have to add another caveat to what you said, corboy. Even if you aren't misquoted, it is possible (personal experience here, folks) for a journalist to use your part of the interview to open a subject that later could have quotes from others inserted strategically to make your contribution appear false or even foolish. My trust in journalists was pretty much shattered by just such an incident.

Not to say that it wouldn't be worth the effort; just that I don't think you can be too careful.

qd

bump

Anyone who has had an unhappy experience with Byron Katie's organization may wish to file a complaint with one or more agencies. Consumers have a right to do such a thing.

This is a link to a post made last year regarding the filing of complaints:

[[url=http://forum.culteducation.com/read.php?12,12906,54051#msg-54051]Filing Complaints re Byron Katie[/url]]

I didn't see a link in the above post for the Better Business Bureau... that is another agency people can work with.

[[url=http://www.bbb.org/us/]Better Business Bureau[/url]]

This is a link to Byron Katie International, Inc. contact information:

[[url=http://thework.com/contactus.asp]Byron Katie International, Inc. Contact Info[/url]]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/26/2009 09:46AM by helpme2times.

Bumping because this is a great resource that needs to be visible.

Good idea :-)

Someone's been telling me about another resource for consumers:

[[url=http://www.ripoffreport.com/]Ripoff Report[/url]]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/02/2009 09:48AM by helpme2times.