Instead of fool factor, I'd call it deception.

Deception doenst just mean you've been fooled.

It means someone you trusted failed to live up to their promises.

You find yourself questioning your own intelligence, your own take on reality.

And you are led to question the good faith of someone you thought was your friend, who led you into a mess.

Here is something told me by an attorney about how to care for people who are victims of a Ponzi scheme--a situation where feeling fooled is combined with the anguish of losing ones money.

My informant learned this via a continuing education class--and it discussed Ponzi schemes some years before Bernie Madoff hit hit the news.

The lawyer who gave the presentation had an astute and therapeutic strategy for breaking the news to people who had been victimized in a Ponzi set up--what to do when you're an attorney who has to bring your client bad news that they've been deceived by someone they trusted.

The instructor said, persons harmed by a Ponzi set up need very special care.

It wasnt just the misery of discovering one's money had been lost, but the shame of discovering one had been deceived.

He said it was just as painful, sometimes more painful to discover one had been deceived, fooled, taken in by appearances, than finding you'd lost money.

So this attorney had a special counselng technique. He would find as many persons as possible who had been taken in by the same racket.

He did not break the news to them individually, as is usually done when a professional must deliver bad news.

Instead, he arranged for all the 'marks' to be together in the room and hear the bad news from him, as a group.

That way he could convince them that they were not stupid, that they all had been taken in by a well honed technique.

And...it also meant that after the meeting was over, the people could be with each other, exchange phone numbers, contact information---and support each other as a community.

It is very much harder having to face this stuff by oneself, at a lap top, or PC, at home, or at a cafe and find oneself alone facing this bad news.

And...suppose the very persons you want to go to for support, say a trusted friend or two, or your 12 step group, are part of the network used to recruit you?

That is what many people are up against--what if your support community, turned out to be the vehicle used to propagandize something that you have now found out was hurtful, and was not what your lovely friend told you it would be?

You cant go to that same friend now that you've found out she's been part of a recruitment set up---one she may know nothing about or, be emotionally invested in defending.

So, where do you go to create the kind of social support that attorney advised other attorneys to create for thier wounded clients?

When a particular deal is something nation wide, even world wide, one has to use the internet to create a support community.

And, persons trying to create support communities find those communities being trolled, unless they utilize moderation.
-------------------------------------

to see the range of responses look at the comments following Janaki's chapter entitled
'A work in progress'

[janakisstory.wordpress.com]



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/14/2009 09:29PM by corboy.

This is a blog entry from a supporter of The Work expressing concern about the problematic reports coming out. From "Rain's Authentic Blog", dated April 10, 2009...

A conversation about "The Work"

This is a response to a conversation on the blog Waves Arising Suddenly about "The Work" and Byron Katie that I found after a disturbing post I found about what happens at the School for The Work.

I am grateful for Byron Katie's work for I have grown so much; This just teaches me that sometimes the initial inspiration is what we should focus on... I would love to hear your thoughts!

_______________________________________________
I am so glad to find a compelling conversation about thoughts and ideas of the work and the school for the work.

I personally had used the work for about a year, until I realized, I was continually doing the work on suffering thoughts over and over... I continue to share it with my clients and introduce it as a trick. (Tricks are not negative, they are just quick ways to help the mind end suffering, though do not prove lasting results without positive action.)

For the same reason I left AA years ago, the work is similar in that people are encouraged to stick with it forever, or they receive a sense of shunning. AA's motto is "jails, institutions and death" Katie's followers seems to say to those who argue that you are "fighting reality" or "fighting what is."

I am not saying these programs don't help millions of people, they do. I am saying that once they help you, please think about moving forward on your own journey without fear.

The experience I have had with those who have gone to the school is a sense of secrecy... and I never knew why. If it is joyous, share it with the world, right? They seem to have a "I know what you do not" energy about them. My thoughts have been, "It's only 4 questions. It's not hard to understand, what am I missing?"

Rick Ross' sharing of the school made me feel sad. Maybe that is what I was missing... what had happened to these people while at the school. Cult, fraternity or abusive family; or whatever you call it... anything that asks you to keep secrets for any reason, is going to create separatism with others and suffering in your spirit.

If the tool you are using to end the suffering does not truly end it permanently and encourages you to add their own philosophy onto your personal authentic journey for the long term, you will stray from walking your own unique path.

I encourage my clients, friends and family all to do what is right in their own heart, to trust and listen to their own guidance. Byron Katie is doing that for herself.

We also need to do the same.

smiles and blessings,
Rain

[[url=http://authentictimes.blogspot.com/2009/04/conversation-about-work.html]A conversation about "The Work"[/url]]

Quote
corboy
Here is something told me by an attorney about how to care for people who are victims of a Ponzi scheme--a situation where feeling fooled is combined with the anguish of losing ones money.

My informant learned this via a continuing education class--and it discussed Ponzi schemes some years before Bernie Madoff hit hit the news.

The lawyer who gave the presentation had an astute and therapeutic strategy for breaking the news to people who had been victimized in a Ponzi set up--what to do when you're an attorney who has to bring your client bad news that they've been deceived by someone they trusted.

The instructor said, persons harmed by a Ponzi set up need very special care.

It wasnt just the misery of discovering one's money had been lost, but the shame of discovering one had been deceived.

He said it was just as painful, sometimes more painful to discover one had been deceived, fooled, taken in by appearances, than finding you'd lost money.

So this attorney had a special counselng technique. He would find as many persons as possible who had been taken in by the same racket.

He did not break the news to them individually, as is usually done when a professional must deliver bad news.

Instead, he arranged for all the 'marks' to be together in the room and hear the bad news from him, as a group.

That way he could convince them that they were not stupid, that they all had been taken in by a well honed technique.

And...it also meant that after the meeting was over, the people could be with each other, exchange phone numbers, contact information---and support each other as a community.

I'd say that attorney is both brilliant and a great human being. Look up the word "mensch" in a Yiddish dictionary and you'll find his picture.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/14/2009 09:50PM by helpme2times.

From a comment by "Rain" at "The Work of Byron Katie and Unschooling" site:

"I guess my take is that "the work" is a tool and nothing more. This tool does not make Katie special more than you or me. And there are flaws (that over time became untruths) in her story, not only from what I shared in those 2 posts, but I have a close friend who worked with her years ago who had told me similar stories of yelling and cruelty by Katie."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/15/2009 05:26AM by helpme2times.

Corboy,

Your attorney friend may have seen the victim re-victimized in the courtroom enough times to recognize the potential for a repeat when it shows up. It's good to have a care-full attorney story to put up against the soulless attorney jokes that make the rounds so successfully. Thanks! Good response.

Helpme2times,

Checking out the "unschooling" site, Rain doesn't stand a chance of making a point about Katie's Work. She's bogged down in guru-speak on that site. She's a member, but not the originator of the group...as she's so very tactfully reminded. She's conversing with a Katie Poster Child and finds herself deep in the mire of The Work. And notice how they try so hard to love the confrontation and welcome the controversy, all the while taking umbrage that someone should notice there's disagreement in the ranks. Why does it all sound so unpleasant?

...also, concerning CROSS-POSTING, where posts are getting cross-posted!
Of course most cross-posting occurs, as links on the internet go dead constantly, so its very routine to cross-post info on the internets.

There have been many posts from this thread that were cross-posted onto Guruphiliac, for example, and also other websites and blogs automatically, like here, and many other places. [anewearth.oz-blog.org]


But that being said, if a particular person doesn't want particular posts cross-posted, then its an easy solution.

Just ask the moderator to DELETE those posts from the thread, as members don't have a delete button after 30 minutes.

then, a simple LINK can be provided to the post in another forum. That way, if the person wants to delete their post later, or alter it, then they have that control.

So why not just get the posts deleted, and problem solved?

I understand that "A" from Guruphiliac is feeling uncomfortable with his/her posts appearing here.

Yes, I can understand him/her feeling uncomfortable about expressing oneself about this stuff.

However, "A" is an adult posting in a public forum. Does he/she not know how the internet works? Doesn't he/she want the information about Byron Katie to reach as many people as possible?

I wonder if "A" has considered how far Janaki has put herself on the line regarding her involvement with Byron Katie? I only hope there will be more people like Janaki to come forth. (And I DO feel very grateful to "A" for his/her in-depth report of that recent Byron Katie school!)

I would go to the Guruphilic forum and say something about this situation with "A", except that I don't feel very trusting in a forum run by Guruphiliac guy Jody. Certainly not while he continues to publish that disclaimer about Byron Katie, on account of talking to friend who is a former insider to the world of BK:

Quote

Update: We just got off the phone with our formerly-inside man. He asked us to communicate two points about the above. The first is that all of these exercises are entirely optional. In his experience (he's taught approximately 700 people in The Work), no one has been mal-vibed by the staff for not participating in any of these practices. Nor does his experience reflect any kind of subtle shunning of those who opened up on The Work in the critiquing session.

The point of these practices is to take folks out of their regular self-image and personality habits, hopefully to engender a quasi-objective platform of self-analysis from which The Work may continue. You're still going to have to pay us to go through any of this, but at least it's not the cult indoctrination operation it seemed to the person who wrote the message board post.

I'm sorry if "A" feels uncomfortable about his/her posts getting around. But pehaps he/she can try and understand why I felt the need to publish what I perceive to be crucial information about Byron Katie. Especially when there are so many deeply vulnerable people "decompensating" in her school.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2009 03:00AM by helpme2times.

Quote

I'm sorry if "A" feels uncomfortable about his/her posts getting around. But pehaps he/she can try and understand why I felt the need to publish what I perceive to be crucial information about Byron Katie. Especially when there are so many deeply vulnerable people "decompensating" in her school.

Amen.

People have commented on Janaki's site, thanking her for her information, as it gave them information they needed to decide for themselves not to go to 'School'.

Given the reports of secrecy, people need to understand that they are doing a community service to speak up, and speak out. And yes, on the internet, if others think your material is valuable, they will cross post it.

Quote
corboy
Amen.

People have commented on Janaki's site, thanking her for her information, as it gave them information they needed to decide for themselves not to go to 'School'.

Given the reports of secrecy, people need to understand that they are doing a community service to speak up, and speak out. And yes, on the internet, if others think your material is valuable, they will cross post it.

So here is a new comment on the Guruphiliac blog entry entitled "Byron Katie Poisoned By Success?":

I read the posts (left by the previous Anonymous Contributor here, April 1st) on the Rick Ross forum and felt well fore-warned about The School for The Work. I thanked you many times during my own experience. I went, despite your warning. I write to thank you now.

I contacted Byron Katie before the school, asking specifically about the practices detailed in those posts. I stated that I hoped these allegations were not true, since they seemed harsh and extreme, and that, if they were part of the program, I would be opting out of many of them . I received a kind and warm reply, reassuring me that all exercises were optional and that I was naturally encouraged to set my own boundaries there. And so I did.

I found it was often pretty tough to police those boundaries. Surprise is such a big element at The School. And Staff asks why one is not participating. They even phone the hotel room if they notice your absence. In a very strange instruction, Byron Katie told us early on that, if we were "unable" to get to a session or exercise, we should call the staff and they would come to our rooms and physically carry us to the conference hall. That conjured some visions and stories, I can tell you! What, exactly, does "unable" mean in that context? One of my children, at age two, used the phrase, "I can't want to!" I've always loved that. So often, when something inappropriate for me was happening at The School, I found I just couldn't want to. And I wasn't calling staff to drag me there, either.

Many of the exercises were built upon previous ones, so missing one often left me out of the loop for those that followed. After a while, there was a real difference between those who were "on the bus" and those who weren't.

In the end, what was clear to me was that I was in the wrong place. And that I had exercised my free will, both in being there and in opting out of some experiences. I would have preferred more clear and factual responses to my letter to Katie. If only she had said, "Yes, those are exercises we do and we consider them important to the whole experience...and you might want to reconsider attendance or setting your boundaries so firmly." Of course, that kind of response would never happen. There's that no-refund policy. And the Gotcha in the end is always Katie's injunction to, "Get what you came for."

So, I just felt foolish and my wallet felt lighter. Sounds like I got off less scathed than some. I have the Anonymous Contributor to thank. Your disclosures were not in vain.

A little more on why I feel strongly about getting the word out on Byron Katie...

I unfortunately know very well what it feels like to feel deeply depressed to the point of being suicidal. When I was considering attending BK's school last year, I was in pretty bad shape. It's just so fortunate that while in that fragile state, I started to get incredibly concerned about my ability to handle a 9-day "school". It's even more fortunate that JJ52 had only weeks earlier come forth to report on her negative experiences in the school. If she hadn't done that, I might not have put on the brakes and stopped myself from enrolling in the school. Instead I might have trekked across the country to L.A. I might had a meltdown at the school. I might have ended up in the hospital far away from home. I might have decided while there, or upon returning home, that "loving what is" includes suicide and gone ahead with a plan I'd hatched to do myself in.

Depression and suicide are no joke. Wanting to commit suicide is one of the most horrible things a person can go through. Even worse is when someone actually goes through with it and the survivors are left to deal with an outrageous level of pain, and confusion.

I no longer buy into this nondual notion that everything is perfect as it is and just needs to be "loved" because "that's what is". If I experience stuff like fear, anger, concern, caution... there are good reasons for those things. I don't want to question them away.

I strongly believe that getting the word out about Byron Katie can help prevent damage to people, including possible suicides. Even one suicide connected to BK is too many. And so I am doing my best to get the word out and encourage others in-the-know to do the same.