How To Recognize A Manic-Depressive Group Leader
Posted by:
Sylvia
()
Date: September 06, 2004 12:05PM
.
There are many behaviors associated with manic-depression - aka bi-polar personality disorder:
Hypersexuality
Those in the psychotherapeutic field used to say promiscuity is a commom symptom of manic-depression. Now they call it hypersexuality. You may notice that a religious or spiritual teacher has sexual relationships with many followers and even family members, even though this goes against their own beliefs and teachings. The person doing this has distorted thoughts and perceptions and sometimes believes that his/her inappropriate sexual activity is ‘sacred’ and later uses this as an excuse for their behavior.
Spending Money
Many people who suffer with manic-depression go on spending sprees or make bad business decisions that ruin their lives financially. This can happen repeatedly. Some leaders of religious groups and teachers in the human potential field also do this. However, they usually have a huge supply of money coming in to spend. Again, the leader may have distorted grandiose thoughts, perceptions and beliefs, and may believe that he/she deserves to live in luxury while the followers don’t because they are doing ‘God’s’ work by saving souls or bringing enlightenment to those beneath them. Usually, sooner or later, the leader’s other inappropriate behavior will result in a lawsuit or at least cause a public scandal which results in the loss of followers and the loss of income. They may move to a different state or country to start over again, or settle a lawsuit that allows them to continue operating.
Substance Abuse
Many manic-depressive people use alcohol and other drugs. They use alcohol and marijuana to try to slow themselves down when they are manic. They use cocaine and other stimulant drugs to try to speed themselves up when they are depressed.
Abuse - Verbal and Physical
Many manic-depressive people become very irritated when they are manic or in a mixed state - not happy-go-lucky fun and charismatic. One or all of their senses may become heightened during a manic episode. Sometimes they are sensitive to light so they wear sunglasses all the time, even indoors and at night. They may require that rooms be lit dimly by candles or dim lamps. Some may become overly sensitive to sound and require those around them to be very calm and whisper. Some may become sensitive to smells and tastes so they will be very choosy about their food and the smells in their surroundings. When something or someone in their environment sets them off they may become irritated and enraged. They will try to control everything and everyone around them. Sometimes the person will not remember what they did or said during one of their rages. If their behavior is not permanently recorded on an audio or video tape that can be played back to them they won’t believe what other people say that they said or did. They may also limit the number of people they see to a small group. When - and if - they switch into a happy, charismatic state they are more able to handle the experience of being with a large group. If they have a previous public engagement that they can’t get out of when they are in an irritated or depressed condition they may drink alcohol or use cocaine or other drugs to help them get through the event.
Changing Physical Appearance
Sometimes during a manic phase a person will change his or her appearance dramatically. Women will suddenly wear more make-up and jewelry and dress provocatively. Men will also change their appearance by dressing more casually, colorfully, or formally or change their hairstyle, but this change is more ‘normal’ so it’s more difficult to find it alarming. Again, their perceptions are distorted and the person will not realize how dramatically they have changed, or find their behavior to be inappropriate. Only the people around them will notice the change and be alarmed by it and realize something is wrong. Some people will get tattoos that they regret later or get piercings that are ‘inappropriate’ for their previous lifestyle. Again, some people will start wearing sunglasses if they are sensitive to light.
Hyper-religiosity
Some people become hyper-religious when they are manic. They may become obsessed with reading religious texts and finding what they believe are new meanings in them. They may begin writing their own religious texts. They may become messianic and start their own religious group believing that they have had a revelation from God. Or, they may believe that they are a reincarnation of an ancient prophet or spiritual leader.
Sometimes a person in a psychotic manic state will have an intense sense of impending doom and destruction. They may become obsessed with biblical writings concerning Armageddon, or they may have ‘visions’ of their own about death and destruction. They may believe that they alone have been chosen to save the world. If they are a leader of a new group they may take their followers to live in a new ‘safe’ place before the end comes, or they may lead their group to suicide in order to ‘save’ them from the evils of the world.
Some leaders who are not biblically oriented will develop other belief systems. For instance, Marshall Applewhite (Heaven’s Gate) believed that aliens were coming to ‘save’ him and his group. Some people become involved in occult systems and various forms of magic. Aleister Crowley was first a poet - then a magician.
Many famous writers and poets are/were manic-depressive. Some manic-depressive people write furiously when they are manic, and later, when they are depressed or in a normal phase they will edit their writings to remove blatantly inappropriate and unacceptable parts of their writings. They may also expand their writings later. (See Kay Jamison’s book, ‘’Touched With Fire’’.)
Cleaning Up After Disasters Created During A Manic Phase
When in a normal or depressed phase a manic-depressive person will try to clean up their financial affairs, apologize to family and friends for inappropriate behavior, etc. They may try to get back to some semblance of a balanced existence. This will work for a while, but if their condition is not treated the next manic phase will compel them to behave inappropriately once again.
Compulsive Traveling
Some manic-depressive people will travel compulsively. They may be looking for inspiration or they may not feel safe where they are when they have an irrational feeling of impending disaster. They may be in a ‘start over’ mode after their most recent disasterous behavior. A group leader may have been in legal trouble, lost followers or other customers, and find it necessary to move to a new state or country to start a new group of people who are unaware of their past behaviors.
You may not notice these clues about a group leader at first. It requires seeing them in different situations over time or a careful reading of their books. You may see a leader as charismatic at first and when you see that person a few years later they may have switched into a depressed condition - or vice versa. There are usually periods of relative normalcy between manic and depressed phases.
Certain words are used that describe a potentially manic person. Charismatic, fun, risk taker, challenging, high energy, wild, adventurous, over-the-top, etc.
.
There are many behaviors associated with manic-depression - aka bi-polar personality disorder:
Hypersexuality
Those in the psychotherapeutic field used to say promiscuity is a commom symptom of manic-depression. Now they call it hypersexuality. You may notice that a religious or spiritual teacher has sexual relationships with many followers and even family members, even though this goes against their own beliefs and teachings. The person doing this has distorted thoughts and perceptions and sometimes believes that his/her inappropriate sexual activity is ‘sacred’ and later uses this as an excuse for their behavior.
Spending Money
Many people who suffer with manic-depression go on spending sprees or make bad business decisions that ruin their lives financially. This can happen repeatedly. Some leaders of religious groups and teachers in the human potential field also do this. However, they usually have a huge supply of money coming in to spend. Again, the leader may have distorted grandiose thoughts, perceptions and beliefs, and may believe that he/she deserves to live in luxury while the followers don’t because they are doing ‘God’s’ work by saving souls or bringing enlightenment to those beneath them. Usually, sooner or later, the leader’s other inappropriate behavior will result in a lawsuit or at least cause a public scandal which results in the loss of followers and the loss of income. They may move to a different state or country to start over again, or settle a lawsuit that allows them to continue operating.
Substance Abuse
Many manic-depressive people use alcohol and other drugs. They use alcohol and marijuana to try to slow themselves down when they are manic. They use cocaine and other stimulant drugs to try to speed themselves up when they are depressed.
Abuse - Verbal and Physical
Many manic-depressive people become very irritated when they are manic or in a mixed state - not happy-go-lucky fun and charismatic. One or all of their senses may become heightened during a manic episode. Sometimes they are sensitive to light so they wear sunglasses all the time, even indoors and at night. They may require that rooms be lit dimly by candles or dim lamps. Some may become overly sensitive to sound and require those around them to be very calm and whisper. Some may become sensitive to smells and tastes so they will be very choosy about their food and the smells in their surroundings. When something or someone in their environment sets them off they may become irritated and enraged. They will try to control everything and everyone around them. Sometimes the person will not remember what they did or said during one of their rages. If their behavior is not permanently recorded on an audio or video tape that can be played back to them they won’t believe what other people say that they said or did. They may also limit the number of people they see to a small group. When - and if - they switch into a happy, charismatic state they are more able to handle the experience of being with a large group. If they have a previous public engagement that they can’t get out of when they are in an irritated or depressed condition they may drink alcohol or use cocaine or other drugs to help them get through the event.
Changing Physical Appearance
Sometimes during a manic phase a person will change his or her appearance dramatically. Women will suddenly wear more make-up and jewelry and dress provocatively. Men will also change their appearance by dressing more casually, colorfully, or formally or change their hairstyle, but this change is more ‘normal’ so it’s more difficult to find it alarming. Again, their perceptions are distorted and the person will not realize how dramatically they have changed, or find their behavior to be inappropriate. Only the people around them will notice the change and be alarmed by it and realize something is wrong. Some people will get tattoos that they regret later or get piercings that are ‘inappropriate’ for their previous lifestyle. Again, some people will start wearing sunglasses if they are sensitive to light.
Hyper-religiosity
Some people become hyper-religious when they are manic. They may become obsessed with reading religious texts and finding what they believe are new meanings in them. They may begin writing their own religious texts. They may become messianic and start their own religious group believing that they have had a revelation from God. Or, they may believe that they are a reincarnation of an ancient prophet or spiritual leader.
Sometimes a person in a psychotic manic state will have an intense sense of impending doom and destruction. They may become obsessed with biblical writings concerning Armageddon, or they may have ‘visions’ of their own about death and destruction. They may believe that they alone have been chosen to save the world. If they are a leader of a new group they may take their followers to live in a new ‘safe’ place before the end comes, or they may lead their group to suicide in order to ‘save’ them from the evils of the world.
Some leaders who are not biblically oriented will develop other belief systems. For instance, Marshall Applewhite (Heaven’s Gate) believed that aliens were coming to ‘save’ him and his group. Some people become involved in occult systems and various forms of magic. Aleister Crowley was first a poet - then a magician.
Many famous writers and poets are/were manic-depressive. Some manic-depressive people write furiously when they are manic, and later, when they are depressed or in a normal phase they will edit their writings to remove blatantly inappropriate and unacceptable parts of their writings. They may also expand their writings later. (See Kay Jamison’s book, ‘’Touched With Fire’’.)
Cleaning Up After Disasters Created During A Manic Phase
When in a normal or depressed phase a manic-depressive person will try to clean up their financial affairs, apologize to family and friends for inappropriate behavior, etc. They may try to get back to some semblance of a balanced existence. This will work for a while, but if their condition is not treated the next manic phase will compel them to behave inappropriately once again.
Compulsive Traveling
Some manic-depressive people will travel compulsively. They may be looking for inspiration or they may not feel safe where they are when they have an irrational feeling of impending disaster. They may be in a ‘start over’ mode after their most recent disasterous behavior. A group leader may have been in legal trouble, lost followers or other customers, and find it necessary to move to a new state or country to start a new group of people who are unaware of their past behaviors.
You may not notice these clues about a group leader at first. It requires seeing them in different situations over time or a careful reading of their books. You may see a leader as charismatic at first and when you see that person a few years later they may have switched into a depressed condition - or vice versa. There are usually periods of relative normalcy between manic and depressed phases.
Certain words are used that describe a potentially manic person. Charismatic, fun, risk taker, challenging, high energy, wild, adventurous, over-the-top, etc.
.
How To Recognize A Manic-Depressive Group Leader
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: September 06, 2004 12:49PM
To Sylvia's list I would add yet another:
Hypomanic leaders are likely to [i:e03bda49a4]thrive [/i:e03bda49a4]on marathon meetings and seminars--they can keep the meetings going, even become energized by them----long after most disciples are dropping dead from exhaustion.
I bet one reason these people so often become powerful is that in addition to their charisma, they [i:e03bda49a4]thrive [/i:e03bda49a4]on long meetings. That means they outlast low-metabolism types like me who rapidly get sore asses on folding chairs and slink home early because we cant function without a least 6 hours of sleep.
If you thrive on a heavy, social schedule and marathon meetings, you're more likely to become a leader.
If you want real-life examples of what Sylvia describes, read 'People Farm' by Steve Susoyev
His leader fits so many of the characteristics Sylvia describes. The guy was promiscuous, projected energy, could dominate social gatherings, lived a hectic social schedule, and ran marathon meetings. He also used pot and alcohol to pace moods.
Marty Raphael, in her book [i:e03bda49a4]Spiritual Vampires[/i:e03bda49a4] describes a charismatic woman who led some sort of New Age school in which aspirants were initiated into 7 mysteries, each corresponding to one of the seven chakras: Raphael noted that she seemed manic depressive, refused to get medical care for her condition and instead used her groups to pace her own moods.
Hypomanic leaders are likely to [i:e03bda49a4]thrive [/i:e03bda49a4]on marathon meetings and seminars--they can keep the meetings going, even become energized by them----long after most disciples are dropping dead from exhaustion.
I bet one reason these people so often become powerful is that in addition to their charisma, they [i:e03bda49a4]thrive [/i:e03bda49a4]on long meetings. That means they outlast low-metabolism types like me who rapidly get sore asses on folding chairs and slink home early because we cant function without a least 6 hours of sleep.
If you thrive on a heavy, social schedule and marathon meetings, you're more likely to become a leader.
If you want real-life examples of what Sylvia describes, read 'People Farm' by Steve Susoyev
His leader fits so many of the characteristics Sylvia describes. The guy was promiscuous, projected energy, could dominate social gatherings, lived a hectic social schedule, and ran marathon meetings. He also used pot and alcohol to pace moods.
Marty Raphael, in her book [i:e03bda49a4]Spiritual Vampires[/i:e03bda49a4] describes a charismatic woman who led some sort of New Age school in which aspirants were initiated into 7 mysteries, each corresponding to one of the seven chakras: Raphael noted that she seemed manic depressive, refused to get medical care for her condition and instead used her groups to pace her own moods.
How To Recognize A Manic-Depressive Group Leader
Posted by:
Lakefield
()
Date: September 06, 2004 03:11PM
They may take a certain kind of food that they can't live without. This is something that is often overlooked. But yes, anything with caffeine - if you take it away, then that's when the weirdness hits.
Another one would be their controller tendencies. They are very good with their words, and you may not read into it because they are so good at masking.
Another one would be their controller tendencies. They are very good with their words, and you may not read into it because they are so good at masking.
How To Recognize A Manic-Depressive Group Leader
Posted by:
Leopardgirl
()
Date: September 09, 2004 12:09PM
Gee, it all sounds a hell of a lot like the guru of the group I was in. I suspected on a number of occasions that she was bipolar, but of course, that was just me being mean and critical and egotistical. :roll:
She was definately manic, no doubt about it. She had marathon sessions where she could talk for 8-9 hours straight sometimes. It was exhausting. But she never tired out. And she drank whiskey or wine for that whole time, too.
Sometimes I can't believe how stupid I was.
She was definately manic, no doubt about it. She had marathon sessions where she could talk for 8-9 hours straight sometimes. It was exhausting. But she never tired out. And she drank whiskey or wine for that whole time, too.
Sometimes I can't believe how stupid I was.
How To Recognize A Manic-Depressive Group Leader
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: September 09, 2004 10:31PM
Dont kick yourself around. A group and its leader usually start out with best foot/feet? foward.
Very likely your leader didnt expose you to marathon meetings the first few weeks you knew her--you'd have been scared off.
People tend to join these groups (especially the small, under the radar groups) through some form of courtship; you the seeker are looking for a resource that will bring out the best in you.
Or you're vulnerable and long for healing.
Meanwhile someone you care about may be member of this group and target you for selective recruitment/courtship.
This courtship may be in the guise of friendship, and you'll be unable to spot what is going on.
Gradually, your trust is won, in small steps and at first you are shown only the best of the group.
You probably will not be exposed you to the marathon meetings or to the drunken antics of the leader until the courtship is well under way.
As you become more invested, you may be trained to ignore or make allowances for the leader's eccentricities before you meet him/her.
Eventually you become emotionally invested and will be indoctratinated to believe that you need to be yelled at, that you will benefit from being kept up all night, and (perhaps) are taught to label your stress responses as evidence of enlightenment or progress. (when short on sleep or traumatized by a guru's torrent of abuse, you may regress or dissociate and have all kinds of wild emotional surges--which can then be labeled as progress or 'purification of Nafs/ego'--whatever the vocabulary of the group)
And, you'll be subtly taught to make excuses for the leader's drunken behavior and nasty habits ('Its crazy wisdom' or 'She's practicing the Sufi "Way of Blame" or, 'If you cannot appreciate drunkeness, you cannot appreciate [i:f1c57db6b7]fana [/i:f1c57db6b7](merger with God)'
If you've given up too many of your outside social ties and come to fear the leader can read your mind or can curse you if you leave--you'll be afraid to leave.
Janja Lalitch has a new book 'Bounded Choices' out in which she describes how this process works.
In such a group, you continue to make intelligent, rational decisions--but you make these decisions within an ever tightening restricted menu of options.
Within the context of the group, and its self confirming map of reality (which can include ways to rationalize a messy drunk leader), choices that look crazy in the outside world [i:f1c57db6b7]feel [/i:f1c57db6b7]quite reasonable inside the group.
Very likely your leader didnt expose you to marathon meetings the first few weeks you knew her--you'd have been scared off.
People tend to join these groups (especially the small, under the radar groups) through some form of courtship; you the seeker are looking for a resource that will bring out the best in you.
Or you're vulnerable and long for healing.
Meanwhile someone you care about may be member of this group and target you for selective recruitment/courtship.
This courtship may be in the guise of friendship, and you'll be unable to spot what is going on.
Gradually, your trust is won, in small steps and at first you are shown only the best of the group.
You probably will not be exposed you to the marathon meetings or to the drunken antics of the leader until the courtship is well under way.
As you become more invested, you may be trained to ignore or make allowances for the leader's eccentricities before you meet him/her.
Eventually you become emotionally invested and will be indoctratinated to believe that you need to be yelled at, that you will benefit from being kept up all night, and (perhaps) are taught to label your stress responses as evidence of enlightenment or progress. (when short on sleep or traumatized by a guru's torrent of abuse, you may regress or dissociate and have all kinds of wild emotional surges--which can then be labeled as progress or 'purification of Nafs/ego'--whatever the vocabulary of the group)
And, you'll be subtly taught to make excuses for the leader's drunken behavior and nasty habits ('Its crazy wisdom' or 'She's practicing the Sufi "Way of Blame" or, 'If you cannot appreciate drunkeness, you cannot appreciate [i:f1c57db6b7]fana [/i:f1c57db6b7](merger with God)'
If you've given up too many of your outside social ties and come to fear the leader can read your mind or can curse you if you leave--you'll be afraid to leave.
Janja Lalitch has a new book 'Bounded Choices' out in which she describes how this process works.
In such a group, you continue to make intelligent, rational decisions--but you make these decisions within an ever tightening restricted menu of options.
Within the context of the group, and its self confirming map of reality (which can include ways to rationalize a messy drunk leader), choices that look crazy in the outside world [i:f1c57db6b7]feel [/i:f1c57db6b7]quite reasonable inside the group.
How To Recognize A Manic-Depressive Group Leader
Posted by:
jorgem458
()
Date: December 31, 2004 03:19PM
She could be the most angelic, and also truly quasi-satanic.
The drama she provided was part of the attraction. It was tintilating. Her behavior was all justified as part of breaking the Illusion that we keeps us captive in this world. Her irratic behavior was to help us to break free of the Illusion.
The drama she provided was part of the attraction. It was tintilating. Her behavior was all justified as part of breaking the Illusion that we keeps us captive in this world. Her irratic behavior was to help us to break free of the Illusion.
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