Hi Thepea I hope all is well,

I would say that there is a continual minor sexual exploitation all along through the program, most significant in the way that it really sets up female members as potential sex partners for male members. This makes it very hard for people to break the mold of being in the organization as both have to agree to leave. We do have one example of that were both partners were being screwed with my the organization, in the case of the person doing the translations.

I do feel that what the movement originally presents as it goals are admirable if they were actually carried out, encouraging people to investigate spiritual matters for themselves, reading and interpreting spiritual text for yourself, working on consciousness, etc but it all gets bogged down by a ton of cult speech, doom and gloom and a sex obsession. They would really need to abandon the garbage teachings of Samael Aun Weor if they would ever want to help anyone.

Here is another forum that i don't think we have looked at before that may be of interest.

[www.wrongplanet.net]

Yes, of course its admirable to investigate, but what's going on in The Gnostic Movement comes right from the top and its fanatical BS.

By the same argument that you must only study under one master, Belzebuub and you are stuck if you go to the wrong school, you better therefore make damn certain you are an adept and can really prove his mystical claims, other wise you could be wasting your time.

So therefore no one should be able to progress beyond the most basic beginngers classes until they have done this, and infact all the more advanced classes should just be held in the state of astral projection full stop. That would soon seperate the men from the boys, and anyone genuine would demand this from their students.

The school instead has a massive and complex doctrine, and as a result is just a hot bed of fanatical behavior, which those in charge incourage, promote and use to their own advantage.

No one will ever look you in the eye and admit that they never proved a damn thing beyond the most basic bits and pieces from the beginners courses, which is the god's honest truth. This denial is the root of all the fanaticism, because no one can admit they are fooling themselves, they have to get all hot under the collar to remain in their state of denial.

Furthermore if you think into the concept of investigation and having an impartial judgment of the claims. Not only would you have to be able to astral project, but you'd also have to travel extensively perhaps for years, until you could prove the master is real and genuine, not according to the instructions in his books, but according to your own impartial astral investigations. No one knows how to prove someone's level of work, other than from what they are told in his own books. So even if you could get into the astral and meet Belzebuub you still might be tricked and conned.

You see how the whole thing is just so mired in conflicts of interest, that go right from the basic beginner concept of investigate for yourself and don't make judgments, all the way into being sucessful at astral projecting and still being misled.

No one genuine would operate on such a shakey foundation.

Savedatlast - yes. I think you summed it up best when you said 'greasy belzebuub pig'. Not to cast aspersions on 'the master' or anything...

My experience within the movement has not been as extensive as yours but I did spend a few years within it and have spent a large amount of time since then attempting to come to terms with it and placing it into a context that made sense of what I saw.

Honestly, I don't know where to start or what to say because there is so much!!

I think we need to say everything we know in order to help as much as we can, and promote the links to that forum so that it is known.

This organization is growing bigger and is becoming more dangerous. They are taking advantage of people's lives, money, efforts etc.

I will soon mention a few things from my own experience.

C.

Thanks for coming on board allbout. I look forward to hearing more of what you have to say. If you need inforomation or just wish to chat feel free to PM me through this site.

I'm also glad to see ThePea is back in the discussion.

It seems that it is appropriate now to bring up the personal attack on my person from one member of the Gnostic Movement that was carried out in the general Samael Aun Weor discussion board. [forum.culteducation.com]. I just realized that it seems I have not fully brought this up before. Here it is and I will write some more on it shortly.

Hi Jeff (notanantiGnostic),

In my opinion, it is not right to spread lies about someone, a group of people, or an organisation. The Gnostic Movement is an open and democratic organisation.

The quote that I think you are talking about, which is in the book Secret Knowledge, Hidden Wisdom (which is for sale to the public at www.absolutepublishingpress.com), is misrepresented. I will post it here:

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Q: I have been debating with the issue of whether or not joining the military is a proper decision in consistency with the teachings of modern Gnosis. My hunch is that it is not. On the one hand people tell me, and I used to believe, that violence is wrong but self-defence is not. But then I remember that Jesus advocated extreme non-violence, and when I think about this, it makes much sense to me, and I like that.
But mainly my father is telling me that it is a selfish way of looking at the world, because if I allow myself to be killed in the name of faith, I still leave my family behind to suffer. That is where my main conflict is. What would the teachings of modern Gnosis guide me to do in this situation?

A: A country needs to have military forces to defend itself in case anyone attacks it. If you don't defend yourself, you will allow evil to prevail. Would you let an idiot kill your familiy if you were able to stop him, even if it meant killing him? If you didn't do that, you would get karma for not defending what you should have. The person who does those evil things is no better than a demon.
But the country or person needs to make sure that they do not cause the attack on themselves in the first place.

Q: If one chooses to join the military and truly believes in their heart of hearts that what they are doing is defence, then they are doing the right thing, correct? Well what if they are just a victim of propaganda, and do not realize that it was their country that initiated a war?

A: If there is a choice in joining the military, then someone who wants to take up the path would have to look into whehter joining the military would allow them the time and opportunities that they need to be able to help other people with their spiritual progress.
They also have to look into what was expected of them when joining and what the government is doing. Bear in mind too that it puts you in physical danger; you need to see whether the cause justifies the risk, becuase the body is needed for this work - that's why we are here. Different countries get up to different things - being a pawn for a corrupt government is not recommended.
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Here the author, Belzebuub answers to a specific question about joining the military. I happen to agree with what he says there and I think most people would. You are giving people the wrong impression and view of what he says, which is not right, obviously trying to discredit him unjustly by taking things out of context and misrepresenting them. It is obviously anyone's right to voice their opinions, but quite another to openly and unjusly slander someone - this shows no respect for others, nor common decency.

On this forum, you are using people’s concerns to get them against someone who is perfectly innocent. Also, you are trying to harm an individual and an organisation just because you have a distorted view of them. I am sure that the purpose of this forum is not to provide an avenue for unjustified slander and lies against an individual or an organisation.

You attended one of the The Gnostic Movement's Centres and you also left it of your own volition; we haven't tried to keep you or anything like that as you have hinted in many of your posts here. In fact, we were very accomodating with you and tried to help as best as we could, even with your condition of having been depressed in the past and diagnosed with ADD. We had also attended to your request to run a particular course just for you when you asked us to. Just to mention another of many things, we gave you numerous lifts home from there as friends. We find it strange that here you are today vehemently attacking us and the author of the books that you decided to read and try to practise what was in them, just because you no longer agree with what we do and have stopped attending.

This whole thing is puzzling, food for thought.

I have decided to participate in this forum now to put things into context, because many people could become victims of your own misinterpretations and misconceptions, which wouldn't be fair to them.

Jordan

All of that is unedited as is the same with my response from over a year ago.

Spreading Lies? Only someone who believes that someone is either with them or against them (a fanatic) would accuse someone of telling ties , because they have a difference of opinion with him.

I should mention to all those who are interested that this is the first time, that I am aware of this book being available to general public. Why don't you make it readable on google books or some manner like that so everyone can judge your believes?

The author Mark Pritchard (who believes a fantasy that he is a mythical creature called Belzebuub) seems to be a hypocrit in my opinion. If the entire world is meant to be living in a state of "awareness" then why would there be a need for military or nation states for that matter? Again I am not a liar for having different opinion then you. My opinion stands.

It is funny for you to talk about common decency and respect for others when you participate in an organization that has no respect for any other group or individuals spiritual beliefs.

To quote Mark Pritchard's Secret Knowledge, Hidden Wisdom

pg 203 " Those who betray or reject a Master of the White lodge will not awaken, even if they practice Alchemy" implying that people have no choice but to agree with him.

I can find other points to this matter if anyone needs them.

"On this forum, you are using people’s concerns to get them against someone who is perfectly innocent." Someone who is perfectly innocent does not claim to be a god or godlike.

I never claimed that you tried to keep me. However Mark Pritchard writes and teaches in a manner that attempt to create a great deal of false fear in those who wish to leave his perverted mix of fundamentalist Christianity and theosophy. If you looked at the definition of a cult attempting to force something to return that is not required in order for a group to qualify as a cult.

I would suggest that you not speak of my private matters, as that would not be legally unwise for you as an organization. Also I know a lot of dirt about you and how you joined the Gnostic Movement, specifically information that displays the state that a person is typically in when they make the mistake of becoming involved in a cult.

A friend by the way does not talk down to you and assume that they know more then you. On a number of occasions you spoke to me a a very abusive manner with anger I should add, because i asked a question you didn't like. Personally I fell betrayed by all of you. I trusted you that this belief system of yours was had some basis behind it and that Secret Knowledge, Hidden Wisdom was not just a ripoff of bits and pieces of other religions. That it didn't explain at all how got past the nutty teachings of man who called himself Samael Aun Weor.

By the way I don't by it that you don't have a belief system, in fact you have a thick belief system, which include the belief that you don't have one.

In case anyone is interested Jordan is the person who I would consider to be the local leader here in Toronto. They deceptively try to get people to attend their centre by offering courses in meditation, dreams and Self discovery. And if you pass all that they might let you take their Gnostic Wisdom course, if they like you of course.

Jordan how do you explain the fact that Mark Pritchard was born in 1964 but Samael Aun Weor predicted that Belzebuub was to be born right away in 1950. It seems to me that Mr. Pritchard was simply taking advantage of a myth that existed in fractured organization to assert as much authority as possible. He has structured with his current organization to allow the least amount of descent possible. A practice that is commonly seen in fundamentalist and fanatic organizations and individuals.

My personally reasons for writing here are to attempt to put some resistance against an organization that is spreading a very unhealthy message, filled with dishonestly, fear mongering, and ethnocentrism.

I have nothing personal against any involved in the Gnostic Movement, except for Mark Pritchard, who displays the typical behaviour of a psychopath and when you watch him on video, available on youtube, you will notice the typical characteristics of a liar or at least an untrustworthy person.

I feel great compassion for those who are still involved with his corrupt movement and hope that they some day choice to look at the world with an open heart and look at the Victor Gomez with a critical mind. Egos don't exist and in fact the word ego actually means the conscious mind.

Both contributions above are unedited from the time they were posted, other than the intro comment I added.

From advise from a friend I will avoid any personal matters related to this incident and deal with the larger issues.

Dear Jordan I will you have few questions you are yet to answer.

1. What was your justification for this action?

2. Why did you not do what you promised and continue to deal with the lies I was telling and to explain what I didn't understand? Is honesty not an important part of being a Gnostic?

3. Did anyone from higher up push you attack me in this way?

Separate from the matters of this exchange it would be nice if someone from the movement, maybe Jordan, can answer for the problems and concerns brought up in this discussion board.

We all know that the Gnostic Movement does all that it can to to silence its critics by threatening legal action against anyone who speaks out against. But we also know that this is one place, because of the work of Rick Ross, that they can not touch. Considering the movement and its masters teaching on honesty, they should have no problem with this proposal.

Ok just an update for everyone. I have sent Jordan an invite to defend himself and explain the inconsistencies in the movement which we have all noticed. Those contributes who have far more experience than me know of even more than me but we all know they are there, including Jordan and others.

Note: we are referring to Jordan by his actually name as that was how he decided to post for whatever reason.