Looks like we have someone from Prichards site or from gnosticweb trying to do some PR.

fascinating

when i take in some teaching or thoughts from any teacher like say campbell or jung or even obi-wan kenobi or some guy down the street, i usually find like a core thought or concept that sticks with me because it makes sense to me.

for example when i was listening to campbell he was explaining the "st george and the dragon" story

and he was saying that the dragon is like symbolic of various inner psychological forces that conspire to keep us locked up , "an inner dragon" so to speak, like for example a fear of public shame "what will church friends think" might stop you from chucking in your literalist interpretation of scripture for a more exciting and more useful metaphoric interpretation

then you need that inner st george to say "look, what is true is what matters, be faithful to what you know is true" and if you lose a few narrow minded dogmatic literalist friends so let it be" "but remember to try your hardest not to give offence"

so here is one way of using the story of st george to help understand what is going on in life

here comes the real st george to slay the dragon that keeps you locked up in fear (all within)

i immediately saw how this fitted in with my emerging understanding that the world is filled with such stories and indeed most scriptures are precisely this sort of metaphor

so i was excited and thought "good old joe he's helped me out of literalism" that is, a dead outward understanding that precludes a deeper hidden metaphoric application to me

however

if it had then later come out that joe was also into some thing that i thought was silly, i wouldnt immediately go with it just because "joe said it and he was right about literalism so he must be right about this"

neither would i throw away metaphoric reading of text which is an idea that helps me greatly and joe helped me "get"

to me it's all about the concept

does it work

is it true

etc etc

not about the man

even men i think are ridiculously off beam quite often have a concept or a story that i love and can use

so joe gave me st george and the dragon

but jung i havent got a concept from yet, maybe as i read some of his work i might

although i tend to fall asleep very quickly unless i get a concept i can use , that is usually what makes me persist with a line of thought

whereas if i get a concept i can use i can read all night , i find it energizing

anyways

i have been fooled many times and yet i am still here, learning laughing and searching

thanks in no small part to people who cared to share what they thought

so thanks to everyone who takes the time to be honest about what they think and what they have found

i consider that i have need of the viewpoints of others

for example this thread really helped me see through the pritchard pseudo gnostic scam

many thanks

Good to see you again Samael, I would say the people of the Pritchard site, Bezlebuub and Gnosticweb are one and the same, they are the exact same people and the same is true for the centres around the world. Bezlebuub.com is just another front. Strange that whoever wrote on the behalf of the movement is playing the part of the way they want their ex students to behalf as submissive failures. Failures in "the work" so failures in life, according to them. This is why as many ex students need to speak out as possible.

Thistle Jung is some pretty thick reading, I have not read much of his actual books, just more books about him or read parts of his books. I think Man and his symbols was meant to be a more publicly accessible read. It is on my shelve on the top of the list of what to read next. Currently I am back reading the Pagan Christ as well as the Hermetica, one on the bus and the other before bed. Reading mythology or wisdom text right before bed is awesome by the way. Apparently that is what Einstein did.

Hey Thistle I think you must have really rustled some feathers over there at Belzebuub.com.

This is likely what was done to your question:


i wanted to ask something
No replies
Sat, 2009-06-13 16:17
admin
User offline. Last seen 2 hours 42 min ago. Offline
Joined: 2008-06-23

This forum thread has been deleted, and the user who started it has been banned, because the user has broken the terms of use of this site.

"We do not allow participation from individuals that are affiliated with groups or organizations that are openly hostile towards Belzebuub and/or this website, or who are openly hostile towards Belzebuub and/or this website in any other way."


[www.belzebuub.com]

This page also contains a very angry/crazy looking picutre of Mark Pritchard which is quite telling of the whole organization.

This action would appear to contradict the terms of use that are posted on Bezlebuub.com which can be viewed here [www.belzebuub.com].

"The Right to Freedom of Religious Expression

Absolute Publishing Press and Belzebuub value the freedoms of religion, belief, speech, thought and expression. Absolute Publishing Press and Belzebuub, and all visitors to the Belzebuub website, have the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion. This right shall include freedom to have or to adopt a religion or belief of their choice, and freedom, either individually or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest their religion or belief in worship, observance, practice and teaching, as constituted by international declarations.

Visitors to the Belzebuub website are free to choose their own religious ideas, beliefs and viewpoints, and take full responsibility for the choices they make."

These internationally recognized principles should exclude the treatment that Thistle and others receive. I didn't even real try to make a fuss and just left as I knew what kind of organization was dealing with and how fanatical they were.

However they cover their asses with the next statement they made and pretty well make their Freedom of Religious Expression null and void.

"As a condition of using the site, all visitors must also respect the free will of Absolute Publising Press, Belzebuub and every person participating on the Belzebuub website to hold their own religious ideas, beliefs and viewpoints, and allow them to practice and express them freely. The only limits on these freedoms are those dictated by law, and those necessary to protect the rights of other members of the Belzebuub website community and to ensure the proper functioning of the Belzebuub website.

In accordance with international declarations, Absolute Publishing Press and Belzebuub reserve their right to express and teach their own religious and metaphysical beliefs, practices and viewpoints. By using this site, you agree to respect this right.

Any visitor that does not uphold these values and terms, shall have their Belzebuub website user account suspended and/or blocked accordingly."

This second part of their terms of use violates the first part. The first statement reflects international law, and the law of most of the nations were students come from. As John Locke stated it is your duty to go against an immoral law and the second part is an immoral law as it conflicts with your freedom of religion.

The only reason they are allowed to legally do this is because they are a company and companies only get in trouble with such laws as long as they are not found to be discriminating. However it is another example of the dishonesty of the organization.

So as a participant on their websites you have freedom of religion unless that your religious, moral or spiritual believe makes you concerned about what they are doing or saying. If you have those concerns you are excluded from participation are quickly as possible.

You will notice that the rest of the terms effectively attempts to remove the organization of any responsiblity for the danger the student faces doing the practices, including death. This is almost the same terms we see at Gnosticweb. How can a man who preaches about responsibility take no responsibility for his actions?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/17/2009 11:49PM by notanantiGnostic.

I would say that their freedom of religion is nothing more than tolerance of religion, until you come clear enough to see their absolute view of the truth. They cover the letter of the law in regards to freedom of religion and not the spirit of the law. If all other religions are viewed as being promoted by negative entities that are trying to keep people away from Pritchards teachings, how can you have respect and acceptance of others?

We also know two things by this action on Belzebuub.com they are watching us here and they have respect for freedom of association, an essential component of general liberty and freedom of religion in particular. Since they don't actually understand or respect these principles they fail to recognize their error.


Personally I have a challenge and this coming from me and I don't speak for others here but they may also agree. I want Mark Pritchard to come and post on this thread and account for his actions. I'm not hiding, you are. Come and account for dishonest language, your lack of accountability, your general fear mongering and lies. I loved his message of how the modern word cult is used like heretic was once used against Gnostics. As I have already pointed out that is udder nonsense. So if you are one of his lackeys, maybe you can pass on the message and we can stop hearing his excuses second hand.

I don't actually expect him to answer because he isn't the time to deal with these issues in a far third party setting like this.

Oh yeah and he can even post under his play name of Belzebuub if he likes, but he will not get any respect for it. You are not a god Pritchard get over it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/17/2009 11:50PM by notanantiGnostic.

Hello,

I have seen that there are quite a lot of different interpretations of my posting but I can tell you honestly that I don’t represent or speak for the gnostic movement or belzebuub or anyone else. I ceased being part of the organisation earlier this year for reasons that are personal to me, but like I said, I did not have a negative experience with the movement and I still value what they teach.

I would have been happy to discuss more about it, but from the responses I received – the intensive personal questioning and also assumptions made about my intentions, I am placed rather like an accused on a judgment bench, which is not a position I want to be in so I don’t wish to post again, at least not in response to an interrogation.

I have no intention to try to convince anyone of my own views. My reason for posting is simply to show anyone hearing about the gnostic movement for the first time, that not everyone has had the experiences you speak of, and I and many others that I personally know or knew, have only ever had a positive experience, regardless of whether they have left in the end or not.

I only wish that there was peace between people no matter what their beliefs are or what organisation they are or are not a part of.

Hi seekinglight

so you are not an apologist for belzebuub/gnosticweb

thats fine

i wish they would explain how they justify some of the things we are asking questions about

it's a bit difficult when they delete any threads that try to bring to light aspects of their teaching that are seemingly harmful psychologically and physically

with a board name like seekinglight i'm sure you understand we are seeking light on the parts of this cult we find contrary to peoples well being

the intensive personal questions might come in part as a result of the way the movement doesn't allow open and clear discussion of these matters on their forums

you havent answered that question of mine

did you practice "sexual alchemy" did you teach it to others, etc etc

of course i understand if this is all too personal

but really to be part of a movement that has this doctrine and yet not discuss it seems well ...lame...

and disingenuous

well i hope we all recover well from the snares and traps of spiritual life

and as we see a snake in the grass i hope we can help keep one another alert to the possible dangers, rather than watch someone blunder on through and get bitten

i guess we all have need of healing in so many areas, the last thing any of us needs is more deception

t

hi notanantiGnostic

yes that was my thread alright

deleted just like another one over at gnosticweb

i was really intensely seeking answers on the whole "non ejaculatory" aspect of the movement

as i was and still am surprised that anyone could fall for such a concept

i mean think of it

"i transformed myself by not ejaculating"

puhhleeeeese, what an absurd notion

so of course i wanted answers, i wanted them to first own up that that is what they teach

and then justify it

i thought they owed that much to the people unfortunate enough to be fooled by it

and i see what you mean about the terms and conditions, it's hypocritical to say we support freedom of expression but then delete any dissent

to me one word is coming to the fore when i think of this pseudo gnostic movement (and i feel sorry for authentic gnostics who have to be more dissappointed than i am about having the word gnostic dragged into the sewer)

the word is

disingenuous

–adjective
lacking in frankness, candor, or sincerity; falsely or hypocritically ingenuous; insincere: Her excuse was rather disingenuous.

yes this whole movement is

disingenuous

Quote
seekinglight
..
I would have been happy to discuss more about it, but from the responses I received – the intensive personal questioning and also assumptions made about my intentions, I am placed rather like an accused on a judgment bench, which is not a position I want to be in so I don’t wish to post again, at least not in response to an interrogation.

I dont totally believe their intent was to interogate. I think many of the questions were quite reasonible
(given that its rather a common tactic here on the forums for supporter of various groups to come here to drown dissenting voices, hijack threads, do P.R. stunts etc)

The testamonies of former members against Aun Weor (& related groups) are not new. Not to say many of the warnings signs of a cult are there.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/18/2009 10:13AM by Keir.