I don't really disagree with your point notanantiGnostic. Though as a personal point of view I would generally prefer to focus on a group and it's practices as a focal point rather than specific people. IMO there is no harm in being cautious of the possibility of unnecessarily demonizing anyone (even possible cult leaders) and turning into a witch hunt in some ways which could be counterproductive. Not that this is happening here, and I would be no one to judge anyway. Just a general personal guideline for myself from my own experience. Though even from this point of view I understand it might also be difficult to discuss an organization like this without some mention of those who originated it and are still at the helm. Which might already make me a hypocrite :). I know cultish groups are generally made up of average well meaning people who for some reason have fallen for the group/leader/doctrine/belief (though others do seem to already be fanatics simply looking for a cause). In fact it is quite possible that it's leader even feels he is doing a great service to humanity. Which doesn't mean he is, or that it is not a cult. I see the group dynamics of wanting to stay as a type of peer pressure as well as wanting to belong, though I feel that eventually in a psychological sense it seems to go deeper than this in subtle ways. The very "egos" (inner thoughts, feelings) that they claim need eliminating, such as certain fears are sublty implanted and used to their own advantage whether by design or otherwise. Add to this techniques to be "aware" and eliminate the "egos" also seems to leave them in a very empty inner state. Where what are seen as "gnostic" thoughts and feelings are ok but all else are evil. A common observation is that they eventually seem cold and empty. There does seem to be those who go quite a way with this organization online, still part of group dynamics obviously, but to a far lesser extent than in person.

In the beginning this group wasn't too bad (comparatively). Though they were always a bit cultish, at one stage it actually seemed largely to be about the students spiritual needs. The fact that he is supposedly Master Beelzebub (sorry, have to use correct spelling) was kept well hidden until a certain point, and was revealed almost apologetically in some ways. Though gradually it became more and more about the leader and giving him whatever he wanted, as he became more the focal point. Through circumstances it could possibly be viewed that he made sure of this. The ability to throw members out on a whim and enact any changes instantly and aparrently without consultation is a very powerful tool to have when the group you lead, and the people that actually run and often fund your organization, believe that they must be hand picked by you to awaken. Possibly not hard to manipulate when you have power and people hang off your every word as divine truth, with a fear of being thrown to the wilderness instilled in the back of the mind somewhere. All sorts of rules and regulations including sleep deprivation type practices also seem to have appeared, though some of this could be put down to the fanaticism of students as well. Though the basic strategy and censorship was always there, common to many new age “gnostic” groups.

Though I see they are branching into different areas, with his own website allowing him to distance himself should he want or need. Quite prolific with three or four books/courses in a decade or so (condensed versions of what his predecessor taught, which were taken from his predecessors predecessor, which originally appear to be an eclectic of plagiarisms in many ways). Also there seems more a religious vein and claiming a connection with ancient Gnostics, which seems a bit over the top. All non profit of course, no one has ever benefited materially from the teachings......Though I would be confident that everything is above board in a legal sense and students and teachers themselves are probably quite out of pocket in their efforts to keep this organization running.

I wonder if the people who hang around there, and often defend and possibly help fund them, realize how they are viewed from from those they look up to. They will often be seen as the “luke warm”, people that hang around but really have no interest in ”the work” and will ultimately fail. It is hinted that “those who are progressing internally, will also move forward within the organization” or words to that effect. Taken to mean that only those handpicked by their leader to become members will succeed. Although it might not be specifically mentioned this way, it seems to be taken for granted among the elect. I wonder if this is all explained to the “luke warm” before accepting their money? It's also implied at a certain stage that complete subservience without question (with tasks etc) is necessary as this is one of the things the masters of the white lodge look for in the student, and view favourably. Of course they do...

Yes I also feel that many of the subjects they explore are worthy, though no one should take any one's word as necessarily being truth, or certainly the best, or the only way. The way in which it is done is there seems a bit iffy. Many of the things they seem to claim “ownership” of (in a way) have been studied by others for centuries, if not millennia. Also there are some good modern resources on things like astral projection.

ps. I'm not really sure if it would be possible to have a purely egalitarian organization, in practice, though a move more in this direction could be a good thing. Perhaps it depends on our notion or context of equality or to what extent this is taken, it seems anything taken to an extreme has it's problems. Systems and organizations based on the ideal of equality seem still to suffer due to human nature, and perhaps due to the fact that people seem not to be equal, though maybe in potential they are. Or perhaps the problem is that some will always see themselves as being more equal than others :) From my slightly cynical view a purely egalitarian organization would probably have a membership of one because of this. Though a spritual/philisophical organization where there is tolerance and everyone genuinely helped and thought of each other as equals, at least in that sense, sounds good.

In the beginning this group wasn't too bad (comparatively). "

Don't you think that the Samael Aun Weor teachings themselves are manipulative?

Also wasn't the Belzebub thing revealed to students at a higher level initially as if they had achieved something? Mark has clearly changed his might on this matter, as he is supposed to be called master or Belzebuub or master Belzebuub all the time and even corrects people if they say it wrong, even though that name is from an ancient language and has been changed many times.

"All non profit of course, no one has ever benefited materially from the teachings."

Are you sure this true of Mark and Edith? Does it not appear that they live of the organization?

Of course egalitarian organizations can't really function, but it can be a good goal or at least an accountable organization.

I forgot to mention before when you went through the list of qualifications, there may not be documentation for the abuse of this organizations but there is for the Aun Weor teachings in general.

I meant to show how the group slowly but surely replaced what they taught as a focal point, and gradually moved more to the "master" as the focal point. "Comparitively" meant compared to some other groups, but all of the ones I have seen appear to have similar cultish elements.

The "non profit" remark was meant as a type of sarcasm from my interpretation of the inference that no one should profit materially from the teachings..... though I would say everything would be above board in a legal sense. I wonder if their publishing company that sells this spiritual information they claim should never be for sale, is part of the "non profit" organization, or a separate company. I wonder has anyone asked? Though even then legally "non profit" may not match what you, I, or others would interpret as non profit. Though it would probably be true as far as the teachers and students that run things for him. They would be out of pocket.

Yes, the original Rodriguez teachings could be seen as manipulative, but only to a degree. It can be read more as someone's opinion. I don't have a problem with the subject matter, though I don't necessarily agree with what is held to be true by this type of "gnostic" doctrine. In fact they can't agree among themselves. Though it certainly opens the way for the real manipulation in "gnostic" organisations themselves.

I believe he mentioned the "master" thing to students, perhaps before he was finally booted from Amortegui's club as he would have needed people to follow him and do the work in setting up his own organisation. Though I could be wrong about that. From what I understand he tried to have Amortegui's group accept him first. At least they certainly "turned their back on him" as he puts it. Aparrently making them fanatics destined for hell, and leading him to the realisation that "anyone who turns their back on a master will not awaken" etc. Perhaps his way of sending a barb towards them. In his early courses it used to be written that he was master youknowwho at a certain stage. It was never mentioned before this, perhaps students were not ready, but they seem to be now. :) Or perhaps he now has enough followers that he doesn't care.

I really doubt that those who genuinely have the salvation of mankind, and esoteric knowledge as a motive would need to build an empire with themselves as sole dictator, to be adored and praised. Then impose rigid rules, censorship and regulations that really control peoples lives and actually stops them from gaining any esoteric knowledge, unless pre approved. Seems quite controlling and self centred. They simply aren't allowed to think for themselves or reach their own conclusions, unless the conclusions are in line with his doctrine of course.

From what I was told absolute publishing is a completely seperate organization, started by one of the members from California who is involved in the publishing industry. This happened because the Movement was not able to control access to the information. From when the information was given out in pdf, many people set up sites which offered it for free. Since this time a lot of effort has been spent on shutting down those sites. I was told that most of them were shut down (as of fall 2009).

Thank you for your insights, it is good to learn more about how the organization got started, discussion and insights should help to reveal the truth.

It is interesting that Pritchard claims that everyone else was declared a fanatic but the only person from that group to come here says the opposite, that Mark was kicked out for Fanaticism and magolomania.

Look at the Belzebuub.com homepage... there's now a button to donate personally to Belzebuub...

you can still donate to the belzebuub foundation, but now this option has been added to. What does he need personal donations for? Does he need to buy another set of disposable plates and cutlery?

Thanks Dragoneye

I just took at look it is seems that they have just added a button to make it easier to donate. Interesting thou that there appears to be a new book, which looks quite thick.

One of the pictures came up from retreats while I was there. It was one where a group of people are sitting quite a distance away and he is sitting by himself. This is not as extreme as Ken Wilber sitting in a nice chair on a platform while his loyal students sit in regular chairs but the picture itself is rather cult like in what it tells about the practice, especially considering the small number of people involved.

That's true with the pic yeah...

[www.gnosticawakenings.com] You can see various options of donating there.

[www.belzebuubfoundation.org] Here's the donation page for the Belzebuub foundation.

[www.belzebuub.com] You can see the button to donate directly to Belzebuub on this page.

Now.. what is the difference between donating to Gnosticawakenings, the Belzebuub foundation and to Belzebuub himself? So far the only difference they have mentioned is the Belzebuub one goes straight to him and is not tax deductible.

And guess what? Yet ANOTHER fundraising appeal has started at Gnosticawakenings... and as usual, the description of what the money is for is very vague. [www.gnosticawakenings.com]

I've never seen them so money hungry. They are going downhill.

Hi Dragoneye,
Thank you for clarifying for me the point about them asking for donations to Mark Pritchard specifically (alias Belzebuub). I see that now where they describe how one of the methods of donation will not include a tax receipt.

As you were saying on this page [www.belzebuub.com]

It says " DONATE PERSONALLY TO BELZEBUUB
Note: these are not donations to the Belzebuub foundation and are not tax deductable."

An interesting note from this page [www.belzebuubfoundation.org]

"PRESENT COSTS

There are always ongoing expenses, which include even the hosting of this website! These costs currently total $2,000. Your regular donations help to meet these payments."

So those costs are just to run the Belzebuub.com site.

Now on the Gnostic movement page [www.gnosticawakenings.com]

They say this. "Thank You for Your Support - A massive THANK YOU to all those who have donated, your contributions have helped immensely with supporting all the website projects, developments, and ongoing costs which require approximately $4100 USD per month."

The claim here is that S2000 is just the cost of running Belzebuub.com but that seems like way too much money, as does $4100 for running the Gnostic Movement.

As far as making donations specifically to Mark Pritchard that is quite telling since he is the only employee of the organization as far as I can tell.

"I've never seen them so money hungry. They are going downhill."

This is all quite good information. If anyone can provide more information that would be good. They seem to have also put out new glossy posters around now, when they used to just make regular paper ones.

As you were pointing on their specific compaign here. [www.gnosticawakenings.com]

"Now we need to raise $4500 to help Gnosis spread further and wider throughout the world, and we need your help! Join our latest appeal to help deliver this special message to humanity in a far-reaching way, so that many more people can discover the Gnostic teachings and change their lives for the better."

Isn't it significant that their special goal looks a lot like their claim of a monthly requirement? OF course I am just speculating and curious.