This is a good find notanantiGnostic! Great work.

Typical tactic for them to supress information & critical discussion.
And it once again validates my point on how these type of organizations supress dissenting opinions.
From speaking to exmembers of other Weor based sects I found this to be a common tactic among them.

Oh yeah just so we have everything clear this is what I am now getting when I try to original link.

[www.belzebuub.com]

You are not authorized to access this page.


It would be interesting to no if anyone else gets different response. Clearly looks like they have secrets, nasty secrets.

Hi All

Keir you wrote

Its rather a common myth that destructive organizations cannot do any good deeds. This doesnt mean we should automatically dismiss any criticism of these groups, dissenting voices or that it's impossible for them to have any destructive elements to them. )

brilliant point! absolutely profound! simple straightforward yet quintessential!

it reminds me of a friend who said he hated hollywood movies because it's always like the good guy has "goodie" tatooed on his forehead and the bad guy has "baddie" on his

whereas in reality there is good and bad in everyone and the idea is to keep the good and nurture it and discourage the bad and do all we can to help it die off

i think you've hit on a key point

when we put gurus up or see ourselves as the "good guy" we become blind to the other side and fall into traps we would avoid if we acknowledged both sides of the coin

this thinking like "oh well now i've got the truth i'm 100% legit" is at the heart of a lot of deception i think

i'm taking from your point that i need to examine everything, both my own attitudes and doctrines and those of others no matter how great they are in some areas

in fact the better they are in one area means i have to be all the more on guard because i will tend to accept their error because i like the bits they get right

yes test all things and hold fast to the good once you've examined it and approved it as good in your own life and amongst friends

Hi All

i was just having a quick look over at the belzebuub forum (the one that banned me and deleted my thread asking about the non ejaculation doctrine)

anyway while there i saw a thread called "Disintegrating the egos"

reading it i got the disturbing impression they are trying to say that all emotions are evil

i find this so disturbing because you would end up like an automaton and the life you are living would be something you never feel

horrible

a friend of mine one said he was put on antidepressants to help him cope with bad feeling emotions

when i asked him how they were he said something like "terrible, i stopped taking them because even the depression was better than feeling nothing"

he was an artist and found he simply could not get any work done while rendered emotionless by the medication

do they teach that "emotions are evil" we need to kill them, when in fact we need to get to the point where we have a full life including emotions as a part of that life

i mean if you have an overly acidic stomach you dont try and "kill your stomach" you need that thing, instead you try to take steps to lessen the acidity perhaps through diet or whatever

likewise if your emotions are giving you hell the last thing you need to do is "kill your emotions" because you need them as part of a healthy life

instead just try and understand what is causing them to misfire and get them in balance

rather than becoming like an emotionless zombie, i hate the thought of people thinking that because emotions trouble them they should get rid of emotions
________________________________________________________
also on the forum there was this question

Can a person that has an active sex-life (no alchemy) with their partner do the 'death' technique on egos?

Basically since egos feeds on our sexual energies, I am wondering if it's pointless for a person to do the 'death' technique on the egos while having a regular sex-life with their partner, because, each time that person engages in sex and spills his/her semen, the sexual energies are wasted and consumed by egos, hence egos grow back in size.

which someone answered

If someone will seriously work with the elimination of egos, I think that intimate relations based on lust would not be really an option for them.
Egos can revive and grow bigger than they have been before.

______________________________________________

can anyone here explain the phrase "do the death technique on egos"

_________________________________________________

god what a mess

what garbage have we been filling our heads with to go from a happy child to an adult afraid of our own shadow



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/2009 08:29AM by thistle.

Ok the death technique is quite a head spin, which is a task to get back into. The idea is that you would start by being "aware" or constantly on alert for any egos, essentially any undesired mental or physical occurrences, such as a song popping up or a muscles spasm or an itch. Once you notice this problem you meditate on it and then you prey to the "divine mother" for assistance in killing it, or at least a small part of it.

The big kicker is that you are only killing a small part of it at a time, so you are trapped in a cycle of self doubt, and reliance on the Gnostic movement and their death technique. If that undesired effect comes back than essentially it is your fault that you have failed to kill the whole thing and you needed to work harder. This is were one of the qualifications for a cult comes in that it is always the participants fault not the program.

If you have done the course "peace of the Spirit within" you will notice that the death is almost identical to the technique for working on the ego. Essentially the only difference is the praying to the divine mother, which anyone can figure out, since it is a good idea anyways. This was the first major lie I came across. I was a very keen student and expect to be treated properly when I make an effort. For months before I got into the final course and read the final book I described the death perfectly to a few people and asked if that was it and they either lied to me directly or indirectly out of their loyalty to the program and their master. You know who you are if you are reading this. Why does your master ask you to lie for him? Isn't he all about honesty? And no it was not for my own good. Your efforts to take away my will and subjugate me were not for my own good.


I would like to comment on your mention of anti depressants, which clearly have their place at times, as they are very much against them rationalizing them for some but looking down on those who need to take them as if they are spiritually degenerate. From what I noticed of their "awareness" technique it was really making people less aware wit the illusion that they were becoming more aware, yet they could not preform basic day to day functions. I was still part of the world enough to notice this but also intimately involved in with a centre to see that people were not aware at all.


The greatest criticism I can bring on the ego philosophy comes from Buddhism. Yes our emotions are not actually us, but neither is our arm or our brain or our memory. Only our true self which is beneath all that is our who were are. I mention that because they pretend to understand Buddhist teachings but they don't have a clue because Victor Gomez Aka Samael Aun Weor didn't have a clue. He only used ideas if it helped me to promote himself as gods gift to the world or as a means to control others.

The speak about detachment, but the way they talk about egos and astral bodies they actually encourages attachment.

Hopefully this will help. Let me know if you have further questions.

Thanks notanantiGnostic

that helped heaps

when you wrote this

If that undesired effect comes back then essentially it is your fault that you have failed to kill the whole thing and you needed to work harder.

i thought wow! what a guilt trip to lay on someone, and one i see a lot

it seems common to a lot of groups and people, rather than help someone get free, just tie em up in deeper bondage masquerading as a way to freedom when in fact you just get deeper in the quicksand and when you are finally done in they leave you for dead and blame it all on your lack of something

as you say classic cult tech

i also dug this thing you said

Your efforts to take away my will and subjugate me were not for my own good.

it's an amazing thing this being alive

and to breathe the air as a free man again is worth the effort and time

I think it is safe to say that within true Gnostic Philosophy the Gnostic Movement is just another level of the demiurge or as Neo said in the Matrix Reloaded "How do I know your not just another system of control, an agent of the system" when he is speaking to the Oracle for the first time after realizing his power. It turned out he was right to a certain extent. The appearance of being liberated, but in both circumstances, you can only be free when you take control of your own destiny.

I thought I would return to a comment I made.

Your efforts to take away my will and subjugate me were not for my own good.

This was meant in the most particle way and practical way, as they decide what someone needs to solve their problem or what someone should do with their weekend. It should be noted by the way that they dismiss people with mental illnesses as being on the path of degeneration for accumulating to many egos.

Quote
thistle
Hi All

Keir you wrote

Its rather a common myth that destructive organizations cannot do any good deeds. This doesnt mean we should automatically dismiss any criticism of these groups, dissenting voices or that it's impossible for them to have any destructive elements to them. )

brilliant point! absolutely profound! simple straightforward yet quintessential!

it reminds me of a friend who said he hated hollywood movies because it's always like the good guy has "goodie" tatooed on his forehead and the bad guy has "baddie" on his

whereas in reality there is good and bad in everyone and the idea is to keep the good and nurture it and discourage the bad and do all we can to help it die off

i think you've hit on a key point

when we put gurus up or see ourselves as the "good guy" we become blind to the other side and fall into traps we would avoid if we acknowledged both sides of the coin

this thinking like "oh well now i've got the truth i'm 100% legit" is at the heart of a lot of deception i think

i'm taking from your point that i need to examine everything, both my own attitudes and doctrines and those of others no matter how great they are in some areas

in fact the better they are in one area means i have to be all the more on guard because i will tend to accept their error because i like the bits they get right

yes test all things and hold fast to the good once you've examined it and approved it as good in your own life and amongst friends

Thanks Thistle.
I felt it was important to say. Some of these popular myths about cults (also perpetuated by them ) needs to die. The public needs to be educated about it.

Keir you said "Some of these popular myths about cults (also perpetuated by them ) needs to die. The public needs to be educated about it. "

How are we going to do this? We also need lawyers who believe in the principle of true freedom of religion and are willing to do pro bono work. I think it is time that someone advocated the cult watch community position. These people are abusing the principle of freedom of religion.