Quote
seekinglight
.. My reason for posting is simply to show anyone hearing about the gnostic movement for the first time, that not everyone has had the experiences you speak of, and I and many others that I personally know or knew, have only ever had a positive experience, regardless of whether they have left in the end or not.

This is not a case of a single person who had bad experiences with Aun Weor based groups.
Furthermore I dont think it is your position to speak on behalf of others (ex members) who had "positive" (wether real or not)experiences.
This Cult Education forum is for ex members of similar related groups to testify their negative personal experiences with a questionible organization.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/18/2009 10:14AM by Keir.

Actually Seeking just about everyone here thought you were still involved, one person thought you had left but it had not really left you. I entertained the later possibility to some degree. So for argument sake how about we give you the benefit of the doubt.


You are in the position you are in because of the personal positions you took in this forum, which you should take account for. You have mostly parroted the message that we have all heard from the Gnostic Movement and Mark Pritchard time and time again.

This is discussion is not only critical of the Gnostic Movement based on individual experiences but also based on the message that is preached about the greater world and society, I think that has been clearly stated. Your failure to to respond to those points really weakens your case. So you are failing in your efforts to " show anyone hearing about the gnostic movement for the first time, that not everyone has had the experiences you speak of", in case of any reasonable person.

You wish that there was peace between people no matter what their beliefs are or what organization they are or are not part of. Well what do you make of Mark Pritchard aka Belzebuub demonizing all other spiritual paths as being the created or promoted by negative entities? Or how he said that those who go against the Gnostic Movement are people who have failed on the path and have scribbled up spiritually? Those kind of statements seem like a lot of hatred to me.

Anyways you are not accounted for what Mark says but you are accountable for what you say. I think there are two major beefs that we have with you here. One applies all of us here and all ex students and the second applies specifically to me and is quite personal.

First of you are re-victimizing everyone who was once involved in the Gnostic Movement, including yourself, when you repeat the nonsense about it being the students fault when the teachings are not helpful to them or they find them to be unacceptable. I would recommend you take another look at the criteria of a cult to see how common this behaviour is. In the case of the Gnostic Movement it is a reflection of the absolutist, totalitarian ideology inherent in the teachings. Apparently the techniques taught by Mark are the greatest meditation techniques ever devised by the human race, somehow they are better than everything devised by any of the meditating cultures around the world so if they don't work for you it is your fault. Oh please what a load of bull. Sounds like a lot of compensation for a crappy program. It also fits right in with his Marks mindset that people that fail the program are going to be on the spiral path towards hell and are no one spiritual antiGnostics (hence the name that I picked).

I am a case in point of someone who did not leave because they were too lazy to do the work. Up until the day I finished reading Secret Knowledge Hidden wisdom and realized that is was nonsense and immoral. In no way shape or form have I stopped being spiritual, in fact I am far more spiritual than when I left, I just reject the Samael Aun Weor teachings and I feel they got in the way.

My second grievance with you is personal and involves what you said about Jordan. Ok what I said about my personal experiences with him are subjective and someone less relevant for what we are discussing here. He is after all just one of the lackeys fallowing and worshiping the psychopath Pritchard. What we can judge him on his attack on me here at the Rick Ross forum. As Keir helped to point out he was attempting to guilt me into silence. Most importantly nothing personal about him or anyone of the Toronto centre had been said before he made his attack. From his post I am very justified in my position.

It appears that you have never seen what he actually posted. Look at it and then respond. [forum.culteducation.com]

Thanks Keir excellent points Seekingtlight's original post looked a load like what you would expect in a PR move, someone simply restating the position of the organization on people who leave, without being aware enough to drop the cult speech.

Your point about how similar the actions of different Samael Aun Weor groups is also quite relevant. The teachings of Mark Pritchard are not special, he just managed to organize and control people well.

Quote
seekinglight
...
I only wish that there was peace between people no matter what their beliefs are or what organisation they are or are not a part of.

Of course Aun Weor was quite open about his polemics, propaganda, attacks and put downs against other spiritual paths/organizations and of those students who dont believe what he did. I find it odd that you would make such a statement but yet refrain from criticism of Aun Weor?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/18/2009 11:35AM by Keir.

Yes Keir it is would seem that Mark Pritchard Aka Belzebuub learned from the best, Victor Gomez aka Samael Aun weor.

Thanks notanantiGnostic
I believe the root of the tree was rotten to begin with and all those other related splinter organizations inherited that rotteness.

Gnosticweb openly welcomes all people, whether they be a Buddhist, African American, gay, a psychologist, or a fourteen year old.

I personally saw many obvious discriminatory remarks on the Gnosticweb forums against many different groups of people.


to gay/lesbians

"the path to hell is lined with roses" (because apparently the "egos" make the world seem like a good place, when it really isn't)

"infra- sexuality"

Samuel Weor "bad seeds. Terrible malignant creatures. All doors are closed to these people"

many quotes similar to this "you can still be a very spiritual person if you are gay, but you will only be able to go so far"

"the energies do not match up. A full connection is not made"

"you can choose to be gay, just like you can choose to be an alchololic or a prostitute"



to children

"I saw him completely lost in daydreams" (apparently daydreaming is the working of the egos)

"he was tapping his foot"

"the personality is fully formed by the age of seven"

Belzebuub "...even disguised as loving thoughts" (good egos)



to society/the world

"there is an all to common myth that society is progressing"

"your esoteric work must be the center" (rather than work, fun, relationships)



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 06/18/2009 07:28PM by Free_955.

Note:

These quotes are from memory. Some of them might not be exact. Most of them occured many times on the forums with slightly different wording.

Going back and finding the exact wording for all of them would make me sick, because I avoid going back to the website.

This is only the tip of the iceberg. There are many more subtle, mean conversations going on at the forums. But at first glance, a newcomer to Gnosticweb might not actually catch the ominous deception behind the words. The scary messages are disguised with words like "meditate on it and experience the answer yourself", or "you can leave any time you want" or "feel free to take what you want and leave the rest". These are used to draw the person in and falsely gain tempt their superstition that this organization might actually be trustworthy.


Seekinglight
People on this forum might seem very judging and critical of Gnosticweb, but that is only because what goes around comes around.
People who feel hurt by someone need to heal. When the carpet is pulled from under someone's feet, it is scary because the person is aware that things are not as they seem. On a playground, if a person is punched in the face, they have the right to complain about how it hurts, so that others can help. Another person might not have been punched, but he can not go around saying that the person who was punched doesn't feel pain.

We would all like to have peace between various organizations. But if a person is mentally hurt in some way or another by an organization, they have the right to express how they feel so that they can reclaim peace. They don't want to be told that their feelings are "lies".



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 06/18/2009 07:59PM by Free_955.

Quote
Free_955
.... But if a person is mentally hurt in some way or another by an organization, they have the right to express how they feel so that they can reclaim peace. They don't want to be told that their feelings are "lies".

Theres alot more than that. the deceptions, the families who have been split by these types of groups, lives destroyed, the years wasted away, financial loses in some cases, the classical syptoms of leaving cultish organizations .....etc.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 06/19/2009 07:44AM by Keir.

notanantignostic,

While I think most of your questions are valid and deserve a response, I am reluctant to answer all of those as it seems, from assumptions made from my first posting, that what I say will be taken in a different way to what I intend. I also don’t think it is a good use of time to get in to any kind of debate about theories, you know it would go on forever, and as I said I am not interested in preaching or trying to convince people about the teachings, that is for each individual to decide.

I will however, clarify the two points you raised that relate to me personally along with anything that I see to be incorrect, as having been involved with the organisation for eight years, I think I have a pretty good understanding of what it is about and what goes on.

I did not indicate that I believe it is the students fault when the teachings are not helpful to them, I would not want to draw conclusions about others and spoke only of my own fault and failure.

I have read Jordan’s posting. He defends what he sees to be unjust. I wouldn’t want to get involved in who is right or wrong though, it is not for me to say, but I doubt he would have meant you any harm or insult, at least from the five years I knew him I never saw him to be unkind to anyone.

Despite what you might think, I wish you well on your spiritual search. I only hope that people I knew to be sincere and putting efforts to improve themselves and change, do not continue to be branded as evil and with this hatred vented towards them. Regardless of your negative experience, I do not believe it is justification for hatred.