I have learned about a website that may help those who have been in the Gnostic Movement deal with things like a Kundilini experience, understanding the dangers of meditation and what not. It probably deals with all the dangers that the Gnostic Movement is well aware of but doesn't disclose to its students, this is evident in their attempts to remove themselves from the responsibility of the harm that could come to a student doing the work who is not expressly told about the risk. This is seen in their terms of use including a statement that removes them from responsibility of harm including coma and death. Odd they teach that anyone can do the work and that there are no risks. This is contrary to what most others say on the matter. Included in this risk assessment would of course be Sexual Alchemy, which of course deals with the Kundilini energy and astral projection exercises.

I am just starting to look at this website but it has a ton of information that i hope is helpful. Perhaps it can also help to give an alternative explanation for experiences that people may have had.

[kundalini.se]

I have an alternative theory for those who may have had experiences of dreaming of Samael Aun Weor, Belzebuub or anyone else that is supposed to be a master. There are many ways you can look at such experiences. The website I just posted will probably helped to. You don't have to believe that it was just a dream to reject the control of the Samael Aun Weor teachings.

For starters I think it must be seen that whatever is going on is very much subjective. That doesn't mean it isn't real or their isn't some truth to it just means that it can't be quantified and will probably be different for different people.

A lot of the answer to this matter comes from the work of Jarl Gustav Jung. Modern Jungian psychology would likely also be of great help. The area that is most useful is the work on the collective unconscious and archetypes (which are universal). This work will likely be quite good for anyone helping to move away from the Gnostic Movement or any other Samael Aun Woer school. It still leaves room for spirituality and infact Jung was committed to the existence of a soul right from the beginning. So your experienced don't have to be seen as meaningless, they just need to be reevaluated and each person must do that for themselves.

I suspect that Samael actually stole a lot of his dream interpretation from Jung or people like him. Jung also has a link to Theosophy through his associate G. R. S. Mead who was once the secretary of Blavatsky. There is a lot of controversy about these connections but I just stating that it is not that different of a worldview.

The collective unconscious for me has a lot of potential in science or is at least compatible with science, particularly Quantum physics. Taoism and Quantum physics have been shown to have some similarities. I am just learning about these ideas and I am of course just expressing theories that might help others in further research.

For me the collective unconscious works by your intuition and your mind picking something up from the universal and your mind interprets what it picks up. Jung never states it that way as far as I know because he was trying really hard to still be a scientist. He played quite a balancing act.

I watched a video a few weeks ago where Jung was talking about girl he once had as a patient who couldn't stop dreaming of him, naturally this disturbed him. Eventually he realized that she had never had what he called a hero archetype in her upbringing, such as buddha, Jesus, Mohammad or anyone like that. He says that he actually helped her to understand this and learn about the hero archetype and she was able to stop dreaming of him. Of course the hero archetype was based on what ever particular circumstances were happening in her dreams but he doesn't speak of those.

It may not be the hero archetype that you are dreaming of or encountering in the astral but it is representing something to you. I am not discounting experiences where people share a dream where they both dream about the exact same thing or maybe encounter each other in the astral I think something else is going on there.

That is my best explanation there is some sort of universal archetype being encountered here. Think about how people encounter different leaders based on who the leader of their particular Gnostic group is (or even a different astral projection group). People in other groups are going through very similar training and experiences.

I am just starting to find answer to all this stuff myself but i thought I would share what I have found so far. Much to investigate and find answers to.

Related to what i just posted I would like to highlight a related bit of cult speech by Mark Pritchard. After Highlighting how he doesn't want to impart believes to others he states on page 14 of Secret Knowledge, Hidden wisdom that.

"If people say that a solar astral body doesn't exist or that you create an astral body with your mind, or that you create a new one every time you go into the astral, you would, through experience, know that not to be true. You would see that those who had not made the efforts that you had to create that body, those who had never practised Alchemy, or eliminated egos had never gone through true initiations, and had never awakened the Kundalini, were telling you and others that solar bodies don't exist."

Now I am not going to presume to know what is truly going on with these situations as Mark does but i would like to point out some problems as a teacher and how this is another example of a lack of tolerance and cult speech.

Ok for starters if you are telling students to verify things for themselves and then telling them exactly what they are going to find you are really creating quite a contradiction and a general messy situation. What if their experiences say there is not astral body? Buddhist teachings dissagree with such a thing from what I understand. This statement also helps to breed intolerance as it puts down those who may have a different believe about the astral. The certainty that he expressed about his believe in astral projection as if it is scientific is not founded as it can not be objectively verified. Verification doesn't mean much if there is no room for debate, or difference of opinion. Also what does a statement like this do for a student who doesn't believe in astral bodies? Either they have to accept such a believe, keep quiet or leave the organization.

I hope all this helps.

Hi Samael, of course you are welcome to send me a personal message.

Perhaps they dislike your name because it was the same as their "define master" who they worship to a great degree. Good point about both website really being the same organization. Feel free to repost what here what they rejected.

I would like to give another quote from Secret Knowledge, Hidden Wisdom page 203 "Those who betray or reject a Master of the White Lodge will never awaken, even if they Practice Alchemy".

It is very significant that this statement is made in the section of the book were people are being told to work for the Gnostic Movement, or the third Key, Sacrifice for Humanity. Essentially this is slavery disguised as a message to help others. They say that no money is made by the organization but what does Mark and his wife Edith do for a living?

Some more important information to put this statement into context. It is taught that Mark Pritchard Alias Belzebuub is the only living divine master of the white lodge. So to not be a direct follower of him is to not be able to awaken. To not be working on awakening you will eventually go to hell. All other spiritual paths are said to be the spiral paths while the Gnostic path is the direct path. The spiral path over several life times will eventually lead to hell. I think my other quotes help to demonstrate that this interpretation is what is held by Mark and past on to his students. This includes any one is a follower of Samael Aun Weor teachings from another groups perspective. That is what the statement "even if they Practice Alchemy." is about attacking those who follow Samael Aun Weors teachings who "rejected" him. Under his thinking I am certainly going to hell as i have betray him by taking action here.

This is not tolerance.

Last week there was at chat at Gnosticweb where people were trying to explain why the Gnostic Movement was not a cult and to address some other concerns. The full discussion can be found at [www.gnosticweb.com].

I would like to highlight of the responses and give my reaction as it seems to be the one that is the most telling. Everyone else is basically giving the same excuses you hear over and over again in the organization as well heavy misuse of language.

Angela M

Site Administrator


Join Date: 2004-03-24
Forum Posts: 59
Hi Ameena and all,
I just wanted to clarify a few things, to help put things clearly.
Belzebuub does not run The Gnostic Movement, has no administrative position in it, and is not the author of Gnosticweb’s courses. He’s an independent spiritual teacher and is one of many whose books are studied in the courses at Gnosticweb. Everything he teaches is freely available on his website and in his books for sale. He does not force anything on others – you only have to look at what Belzebuub does and teaches to see that what is being said about him is untrue.
It’s unfortunate that someone who may have their own grudges can affect someone’s search for true spirituality. I’m glad you raised your concerns Ameena and that you have decided to search for truth yourself.
All the best,
Angela

Angela by the way is extremely high up in the Movement and last time I checked. Perhaps "Belzebuub" does not run The Gnostic Movement but it is an organization set up to spread his teachings, you will see him stating that in his own words. To state that he has no administrative position is a little misleading. Sure he may not deal with day to day operations but he certainly does control things and you can't speak against him or spread outside criticism of him even for discussion. Also why does he not have an administrative position considering he lives of the donations given to the organization? I have never seen other teachings being promoted at Gnosticweb other than the two men that he studied, other than ancient texts that are usually rather corrupted in their presentation. Like using a text that is clearly speaking of abstenance to promote the idea that Jesus preached alchemy.

"It is unfortunate that someone who may have their own grudges can effect someone's search for true spirituality" This is a pretty good example of attaching those who leave and that their is no reason for leaving.

Also mentioned in the previously mentioned forum was a reference to an audio talk given by Mark Pritchard Alias Belzebuub.

[belzebuub.com]

Someone asks Mark a question about difficulties in spreading the teachings and how people think of it as being a cult when they hear about it. If you would like to jump to the relevant question the 15 min mark is the point when the question is asked. It is a talk about the state of the word and how much darkness there is in the world so the rest of the piece might also be quite useful to see how hateful and intolerant the teachings are. Hear I will do my best to present his argument well also presenting the holes in that argument.

On the matter of cults he starts of my explaining the word cult supposedly has little meaning as even alcoholics anonymous has been labeled to be cult like groups by some people. That's right this highlight how the word cult is not a word used to attack peoples believe but how they treat their followers. This also contradicts his following statements.

Mr. Pritchard claims that the knowledge that is taught and the organization are separate. This contradicts the testimony that was given by the user of this forum name Samael. This also contradicts his teachings of the third key, that you must sacrifice for humanity to advance and the only way to do that is to.

After this he claims that the modern word cult is used as the word heretic was originally used against Gnostics. He neglects to mention or consider that the word heretic was originally used to attack any group or individual that didn't conform with the mainstream church. Essentially this was an attack on diversity which is much likes Marks teaching that all other spiritual teachings are perpetuated by negative beings (demons) to encourage chaos. So he is stating that the word cult is meaningless and meant only to be used against the Gnostics. He can't even get out of his cult speech long enough to acknowledge that there are people who consider themselves Gnostics that don't follow him. Very disrespectful. This is why I picked the name NotanantiGnostic, I am not against Gnosticism I am against the Samael Aun Weor teachings and my experience was with Mark Pritchard's group.

There is probably a lot that can be said about what he said and his manipulative language, he manages to spread it quite easily because he seems to believe it.

Perhaps some numbers on this group might help. From what I have read they seem to claim that they have spread their teachings to 30,000 people, however from what I saw I don't think that they are likely to have more than 500 students online and at all centres at this time. That means a lot of ex students out there, many people who couldn't accept what the Gnostic Movement has to say.

Angela is the one that removed my account, Vadim or however it is spelled did it on the other site. I would say it would make sense that Prichard doesn't run the site as I doubt he has the expertise, but from reading that thing you posted from yahoo groups, he is a bit like that anyways. He has most certainly talked about 'authority' quite a bit on the forums in a few threads. He certainly loves his position of power.

Marks story is an obvious one of lusting for power, from his choice to use the name Belzebuub, to the lies about how he created to organization to the "teachings" that he pushes.