If anyone is interested in talking to me about their experiences with the Gnostic Movement but they don't yet feel safe posting here please feel free to contact me via this websites Personal Messenger I will not post anything you say, and I will hold it will all be completely confidential.

Just click on my name and use the option to send PM or personal message.

I have just read the book by Timothy Freke called Lucid Living. For me it was a really good alternative perspective on awareness in comparison to the teachings of Mark Pritchard. He takes a very imclusve approach to spirituality and is decidedly anti fanatic. Most of his books are about history but this book is clearly philosophy and spirituality.

Hi everyone I just I thought should write on a matter that has come to mind from time to time. I hope it will help others who may still be in the Gnostic Movement to think about this. It is obvious by the way the organization works, its heavy handy discipline against trouble makers and its complete inability to reform that there are more ex students then current students. The teachings really mess with your head. I only spent a few months fully involved in the nonsense that is pushed so I can't imagine what it must be like for those of you who spent years involved in the so called teachings. Just thought I would make a mention to anyone of you who might be out there who have left who are working on leaving, I am with you and I support you and I really wonder how you are doing.

By choosing to do something good for yourself and leave, you are doing nothing wrong and you have failed no test, despite what you may have been told. Any bad feelings you have are a result of undue influence. I am just starting to truly come out of it and I was only involved for 6 months and only heavily for a few months at the very end. I stopped just in time, before real damage happened to me and my life. I feel for you, you can do it. Also remember you are not becoming anti spiritual or anything like that to go against a lie that you got trapped into.

I hope this reaches you.

All the best

I just wanted to post something from Gnosticweb that shows how disturbing their master Mark Prithchard who lives a fantasy life believing in he is the mythical creature Belzebuub. I was watching it a few weeks ago and it says now that it was removed by the user. I am glad I copied it when I did. I think it speaks for itself about how abusive Mark can be and how indoctrinated his students and teachers are.

Sat, 02/21/2009 - 14:06
Helena

Join Date: 2009-02-12
Forum Posts: 13 'Stockholm syndrome' is not a medical term because it's a state of mind. Loyalty to a more powerful abuser – in spite of the danger that this loyalty puts the victim in...
Recently I have discussed this 'state of mind' with friends interested in personal development and I have discovered that in everyday life we have many situations where we behave under the syndrome of Stockholm without being aware. I find that you need to be very strong minded and aware person to notice these psychological situations where people try to use you with good reasoning, but in a way we could stop this sort of manipulation from others if we have awareness and free will in that particular moment.
It's interesting to see the many egos involved in the mind of people that suffer from Stockholm Syndrome. To discover these egos and eliminating them would be a challenge, and it would definately change the state of mind to a more conscious and free one. I think that is important to analize this negative state of mind in all areas in your life, I mean not just outside but also inside here.
Looking forward to your feedback.
Helena

#1 Sat, 02/21/2009 - 17:33
Cheryl D.

Join Date: 2007-07-07
Forum Posts: 14 Hi, it is an interesting topic, it does depend on what sort of abuse your experiencing, and from who, family, friends , the boss, using gnostic techniques, is helpful, finding the detail in yourself is liberating,but you will never stop this sort of manipulation in others, they will make a comment , and it will seem finished, but sooner or later it will reappear. I find being a gnostic a clear choice to wake up from the sleep of the world. You can only demonstrate by example, but finding answers for others, just doesnt seem to work, without them making the effort, I find they think your lecturing, fasinated by the work of the lord, some of the things people can say to try to make you capitulate to their way of thinking, its endless. I will use the term stockholm syndrome though, it may just do the trick, it will make it seem really important, because it just doesnt seem so already.
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#2 Sat, 02/21/2009 - 23:02
Vadim

Join Date: 2004-11-30
Forum Posts: 2973 Hi Helena,
I think that "Stockholm Syndrome" is a form of fear which may help to survive in some cases. That's a good point, I find, that it can be seen in everyday life.
When there is not much a person can do in terms of changing a fearful situation, there is a lot of suffering to bare, and expressing anger towards a stronger aggressor, with more or less power and control over you in that situation, may be quite dangerous...
So nature looks for other ways to survive, and one of them is to find reasons to like aggressor, find own guilt, rationalize situation, "respect" their strength, etc., all those ways of fear.
When a person is aware, then they can see those aspects of fear as they are. Obviously, it may require a real psychological battle to go through in some situations.

#3
Wed, 02/25/2009 - 21:48
Helena

Join Date: 2009-02-12
Forum Posts: 13 Hello Vadim and Cheryl,
Interesting the point about survival... in some cases the victim chooses to be diplomatic and kind to the abuser when there is not other option and I think that is a smart way of approaching the problem, but the abuser can sort of programm the mind of the victim with inferiority and guilt complexes so the victim becomes a follower. So even when the victim gets a chance to be free from the abuser he/she becomes trapped like in vicious circle that is only in the mind. If the victim becomes aware of this psychological manipulation then is possible to analize all the egos involved, eliminate them and be free from the abuser.
The Stockholm Syndrome is everywhere in everyday life... from bosses, teachers, members, moderators, administrators, relatives, friends, partners, etc. The more conscious you become the more you can see the manipulation, when you understand that you have free will and that there is nothing to fear because of God and the Superior Justice, as longer as you follow your intuition and do the right thing then you would escape from others using you. Although manipulators try to make you believe that your intuition is wrong by saying that is dreaming or not real, maybe a negative entity, so if you don't follow your Inner Voice then the manipulators have more power over you.
Thanks so much for your posts and I hope that you keep a positive state of mind.
Helena :.)
PS: Just wonder who flagged my post, I guess that someone that may practice that Stockholm Syndrome on others :p

#4
Thu, 02/26/2009 - 05:01
Belzebuub

Site Administrator


Join Date: 2007-02-10
Forum Posts: 47 Hello Helena,
Before implying that any individual qualifies for this so-called Stockholm syndrome category, don't you think that anyone who applies this label to someone should make sure they know the facts and are not dealing with assumptions?
Otherwise someone may blindly apply the criteria in this to individuals who do not actually fulfill the criteria, using the name of this syndrome as a form of judgment and condemnation.
Let’s look at the labels and see what the individuals are called - the victim & the abuser.
The abuser - programs the mind of the victim with inferiority and guilt complexes, manipulates victims.
The victim – their mind has been programmed with inferiority and guilt complexes and becomes a follower, trapped in vicious circle that is only in the mind.
Pretty nasty stuff!
There is a veiled implication that is going on here in your second sentence and by your last sentence you more clearly imply it, do you really think that is going on here?

#5
Fri, 02/27/2009 - 17:53
Helena

Join Date: 2009-02-12
Forum Posts: 13 Hello Mark!
I was only explaining the Stockholm Syndrome to help people to discover psychological patterns that they haven't been aware of yet so they can free themselves from manipulation and discover the truth for themselves leading a healthy and happy lifestyle.
I used exactly the same terms, abuser-victim, as it's written in any book or article where the officially recognised Stockholm Syndrome by psychiatrists and criminologists is described. But I could use synonyms for abuser-victim like offender-innocent. 'Pretty nasty stuff' isn't a positive vocabulary. ' It's very offensive' would be a nicer synonym.
Have a nice day.
Helena
PS:... I'm scared, I'm just a little girl with chicken bones, not very strong, cannot defend myself, please help anyone...


#6 Sat, 02/28/2009 - 05:20
Belzebuub

Site Administrator


Join Date: 2007-02-10
Forum Posts: 47 Ah, and I thought you were in your 'cult watch' phase :)
I think psychiatrists and criminologists have a long way to go before they can understand the human psyche.
I'll try to use nicer synonyms...occasionally.
Chicken bones? At least you haven't got a beak.
Or have you?
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#7 Sat, 02/28/2009 - 18:14
Cheryl D.

Join Date: 2007-07-07
Forum Posts: 14 Thanks Mark, that made it really clear,all those issues are relevant in this situation,but when in this position and it is ongoing, having to make someone aware of what they are doing to themselves, is daunting indeed, trying not to make matters any worse is not easy, my best result was staying completely in awareness and remembering my own innerwork.Technical terms,impress people, I mentioned pseudo esotericism to someone,they thought ,well at least it was something, because most people have no idea of how to evaluate the effect of their actions, except from other peoples overeactions. Becoming intellectual is a real mistake though, it doesnt solve the problem only changes it to make it seem it has dissolved and become stable.
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#8 Sat, 02/28/2009 - 20:44
Helena

Join Date: 2009-02-12
Forum Posts: 13 Hello Cheryl!
There is nothing wrong in being intellectual. I learned in some gnostic lectures about the level of knowledge and the level of being. A combination of both is ideal. A balanced person has knowledge, good intuition and good values. No matter how much you meditate that you still need knowledge to achieve complete wisdom. A person that is illiterate may have a great heart but still needs knowledge, an educated person my have all sorts of academic studies that still needs an inner sight for good values and faculties like intuition. So a person that is educated with inner faculties is great.
Light
Helena :.)
PS: Also I think that is a very honorable and valuable virtue to have an independent idea without apple-polishing.

#9
Sat, 02/28/2009 - 23:25
Matija

Join Date: 2003-08-28
Forum Posts: 306 Hi Helena,
I thought apple-polishing happens when you flatter someone and ask a favor for it, which I have trouble finding in this thread. Perhaps it would be good to consider if it is honorable, valuable, not to mention legal, to misinterpret words of other people and put them down by assuming things, even when doing it indirectly.
All the best,
Matija


#10 Sun, 03/01/2009 - 00:17
Martijn

Join Date: 2004-08-04
Forum Posts: 385 It is good to look out for external manipulation, too bad most manipulation is internal. For every no there is a yes and for every yes there is a no; the labyrinth of the mind.

Hello everyone if you have read it already please read this forum [forum.culteducation.com] Which will help to you understand the problems with the Samael Aun Weor teachings generally. No one has yet written a book about how this madness came about but all the evidence is available here either directly or in links.

Quote

#6 Sat, 02/28/2009 - 05:20
Belzebuub

Site Administrator


Join Date: 2007-02-10
Forum Posts: 47 Ah, and I thought you were in your 'cult watch' phase :)
I think psychiatrists and criminologists have a long way to go before they can understand the human psyche.
I'll try to use nicer synonyms...occasionally.
Chicken bones? At least you haven't got a beak.
Or have you?

I made a post about cult watching on Belzebuub's website (belzebuub.com). Maybe he saw it. Anyway, it was deleted.


From what I have read, I think they have no idea what they are talking about. Stockholm syndrome? What is that? I've heard of it before, but the way they are talking about it is kind of odd. Belzebuub saying it is a °label" ?

Hi Free_955 good to hear from you,

Stockholm syndrome, which is a disorder that comes for some people who have been held captive where the person falls in love with their capture, is probably not the best description for what is going on here. However I do think there is something similar going on where people have love and devotion towards the person who is harming them.

What you have highlighted is what I see as the most important the reaction from the "master" and his loyal students and henchmen backing him up. Because they present themselves as being an organization that is open to discussion many people have raised the concern of it being a cult or have used other language like that. However i suspect that only those that serve the purpose (at the end of the discussion) to show how it is a safe group kept on the forums.

Yeah Free them removing your video is really telling. If they really didn't fit the category of cults, they would have not problem with the discussion in general to help people see the problems with other groups. Only dangerous groups need to be concerned with those who are against cults.

It is sickening how they misused words like psychology. Psychology means the modern study of the mind by modern scientific means, and trust me they do not know the inclusive ancient means of dealing with things either, as they still place everything in boxes.

Why does he attack psychiatrists and criminologists in general? How much has he read about them? seems this is just his pride of his own way of thinking coming out. A real lack of tolerance.

Wow I just noticed that you said you posted right on his site, that is bold. I friend of mine posted something on his site from another Samael Aun Weor group criticizing Mark Pritchard and saying it was illegitimate. In stead of dealing with the concern he was kicked off the site, removed from Belzebuubs facebook page. Why not just deal with the concerns? Probably because the explanations given are all based in lies.

You have done great work by getting the word around the net in general by the way.

Here two quotes from Mark Pritchards book secret Knowledge, Hidden Wisdom that should make you concerned. They are both from the first chapter, but it highlights my point. I don't really like reading these books anymore the obvious cult speak in them makes me sick now.

page 21 contains a very manipulative and suggestive line in regards to there being many paths in life "If I or others say that there are many paths to failure, but those only lead to devolution, will you find out if that is true or not?"

page 23 "Many people who are seeking knowledge of the real path can be misled in many ways. Indeed the Black Lodge uses and promotes a confusing amount of Pseudo-spiritual ways in order to cause chaos and confusion, and to lead people away form the true path."

The black lodge refers to negative entities or demons. He states it in much clearer manner later on in the book but he is essentially saying that all other spiritual paths are created or encouraged by them. I now see that many people read these books and don't see the negativity and paranoia in them.

Two more quotes that I think should help. Both indicate Mark Pritchards intolerance.

Pg 28-29 "The so-called 'Masters' in this physical world who do not have their Master incarnated are fakes". It is a long explanation what this means but for Mark he believes the master he has incarnated in Bezlebuub.

From a question and answer section page 37.
Question "Hatha Yoga was labeled by Samael Aun Weor as 'authentic black magic'. Can you explain? i practice yoga occasionally and just wanted to confirm your viewpoint on this.

Answer "There are many things that are thought of as being normal, but are actually black. The darkness has taken over the world and virtually everyone will be dragged downwards. These things don't have to be obviously or consciously black to be so; there can be things that are not obvious here but internally, in the higher dimensions, are affiliated to the dark side"

"Virtually everyone will be dragged downwards" means everyone is going to hell.

I just realized I accidentally created a new topic, not replied to this one, well here was my message.


I tried posting on both sites, on Gnosticweb my account was deleted without a reason then on Bezlebub's site was deleted after a few days of posting because my name was "in bad taste". I never had any intention of joining them, I only wanted to chat with people on the forum and I assume they did not like me pointing out their irrational logic or that you should listen to the message not the messenger. They, like many religious institutions put someone on a golden pedestal so that when that person says something, they assume it is profound and meaningful; even though they could have just said "You should eat human wastes." Those two websites seem to not like the message that you should focus on the message and not the messenger and determine validity by your standards.

There is some pretty good info in this thread in regards to the fluff of the "Gnostic movement" and they do seem to prey on people then sell snake oil. And they do not appreciate dissent.

notanantiGnostic, if you don't mind could I PM you?