Quote
The Anticult
here's a video about the cryonics scam, with some Penn and Teller Bullshit.
[www.youtube.com]

The dictionary defines "scam" as " fraudulent business scheme; a swindle."

I've had arrangements for cryonic suspension with the Alcor Foundation since 1991, funded with life insurance. I have also worked for the past 18 years for David Pizer, who served as Alcor's treasurer for several years in the 1990's. Therefore I have some privileged insight into the cryonics scene. I can assure you that nobody has gotten rich off of cryonics, fraudulently or otherwise. (One look at the well used cars of Alcor employees would disabuse anyone of that notion.) If anything, cryonics societies have had to run as a privately financed command and control economy, not unlike progressive talk radio, because cryonics has failed to catch on as a regular for-profit business.

If you want to criticize cryonics, do so based on the facts, not on an unsubstantiated stereotype.

advancedatheist:

Is there an annually published financial statement that discloses in detail all salaries, compensation and expenses paid out through the Alcor Foundation?

What financial records can viewed by the public?

Hello Anticult,

Thanks for the helpful advice. I have had contact with Mr. Shermer of Skeptic, however I was unaware of Todd Carroll’s SkepDic website. I will get in contact with him as well.

Some of the individuals involved in some of the issues that I am dealing with have discovered my post on this discussion board. This does not surprise me at all. I am convinced that some of these individuals have nothing to do but surf the net looking for any signs of threats against there belief. Below is a link to one of there discussion board as well as a comment about my posting on Cult Education Forum.

COLD FILTER POST
[www.network54.com]

COLD FILTER FORUM
[www.network54.com]

If you want to see true definitions of delusion, I encourage everyone on CEF to view some of the posts on COLD FILTER as well as posts on [www.cryonet.org]

You will find these discussion boards very interesting as well as entertaining. Some of these people are in need of some serious therapy.
Some individuals and companies (and certain attorney’s they keep on retainers) who are involved in cryonics are experts at deception and intimidation, and are expert liars. They have a history filing frivolous lawsuits as well.

I encourage everyone who views this post to do some research into Alcor’s past as well as the psudo-science of cryonics. Please involve everyone you can and encourage them to petition their lawmakers to regulate cryonics.

I NEED EVERYONE'S HELP… Please go to: [www.thepetitionsite.com]

Respectfully,
Larry Johnson

Quote
rrmoderator
advancedatheist:

Is there an annually published financial statement that discloses in detail all salaries, compensation and expenses paid out through the Alcor Foundation?

What financial records can viewed by the public?

I guess you haven't heard of Google:

[www.alcor.org]

BTW, I just paid my 2009 annual dues to Alcor in one lump sum ($518.00). Alcor derives the rest of its income from private donations and from whatever money comes in from doing suspensions. Because members usually die unpredictably, the last source of income can vary dramatically from year to year. It may also derive some rent income from other tenants in its Acoma Street building, but I haven't looked into that lately. The facts just don't support the claim that someone has made a fortune running cryonics as a "scam." Otherwise I would like to meet this individual.

Quote
FREETED
Some of the individuals involved in some of the issues that I am dealing with have discovered my post on this discussion board. This does not surprise me at all. I am convinced that some of these individuals have nothing to do but surf the net looking for any signs of threats against there belief.

Don't sound so self-important, Mr. Johnson. I have Google set up to email me when it finds links to keywords of subjects I like to read about, including cryonics. Google directed my attention to this forum automatically.

Quote

If you want to see true definitions of delusion, I encourage everyone on CEF to view some of the posts on COLD FILTER as well as posts on [www.cryonet.org]

You will find these discussion boards very interesting as well as entertaining. Some of these people are in need of some serious therapy.

Do you have something more substantial to say about cryonicists than this ad hominem noise? I admit cryonics attracts some unusual individuals. But look at what we want to accomplish. I doubt that "well adjusted" Stepford people would even think of such an idea, much less try to pull it off.

advancedatheist:

Thanks.

The latest 2006 disclosure reflects that Alcor takes in about $1.5 million per year and pays out more than half of that figure in salaries, programs and management. In excess of $10,000 for travel alone during 2006.

The statement also reflects that Alcor has had millions of dollars flow through its coffers over the years and considerable assets have been accumulated.

In 2003 Alcor disclosed over $5 million in accumulated assets.

During 2003 Alcor stated its expenses totaled almost $1.5 million, but did not break this down per salary paid to each individual and whatever expenses and/or other compensation that individual received. There are just general categories noting such things as "marketing," legal and "professional services," without detailed information, i.e. who was personally paid what amount.

Do you know who specifically receives what exact salary per year and each paid staffer's total compensation?

Can you provide a link to those disclosed salary/compensation details?

I don't have that information, though I'll make some inquiries today.

I do know that Alcor started a search for a new CEO last year (apparently still under way) with the salary of $125,000 a year funded by three wealthy investors (including Robert Miller and Ed Thorp, two of the cryonicists profiled in the Wall Street Journal article about three years ago). The subsidy says a lot about the direction of cash flow through Alcor.

Quote
rrmoderator
advancedatheist:

Thanks.

The latest 2006 disclosure reflects that Alcor takes in about $1.5 million per year and pays out more than half of that figure in salaries, programs and management. In excess of $10,000 for travel alone during 2006.

The statement also reflects that Alcor has had millions of dollars flow through its coffers over the years and considerable assets have been accumulated.

In 2003 Alcor disclosed over $5 million in accumulated assets.

During 2003 Alcor stated its expenses totaled almost $1.5 million, but did not break this down per salary paid to each individual and whatever expenses and/or other compensation that individual received. There are just general categories noting such things as "marketing," legal and "professional services," without detailed information, i.e. who was personally paid what amount.

Do you know who specifically receives what exact salary per year and each paid staffer's total compensation?

Can you provide a link to those disclosed salary/compensation details?

(its correct about the Google alerts, virtually every group does that, to monitor what is being said about them on the internet).

well, Cryonics at this time is a scam. Its no different than selling any type of Snake-Oil.
Why? Because they are making exaggerated false claims without the scientific evidence to back them up.
They really are in the same business as a cemetery, and should be regulated as such. A cemetery could have graves, cremation, or freezing, and maybe also ejecting bodies into space, etc.

If people want to get frozen for a few decades until someone buries their remains later on, so be it. Because that is what is going to happen. At some point there will probably be some supreme court case, which will result in the burial of all these people.

But the thread got started saying it should be regulated, and that makes sense. If cemeteries were not regulated carefully, you would have some bad owners digging up old graves, to make new space to sell, etc.
So the hidden nature of cryonics makes it open to abuse.
Once the people are dead, who is minding the freezer?


regarding SkepDic: There should be a seperate entry on Cryonics on the skepdic site. I bet if Robert Todd Carroll from SkepDic was given some info, he might make an entry when he has time.


There is a ridiculous amount of hype and lies around cryonics.
Its outrageous that guys like Ray Kurzweil get involved with Alcor, but Kurzweil is buttering his own bread, and selling his "protein shakes" and products with his partner Terry Grossman, and engaging in quackery like taking 250 supplements a day. www.rayandterry.com

That is all part of the cryonics scam too, to sell people countless products to extend their lives, etc, all without proof. Its a huge business.

Ah, what do you know. Terry Grossman is on the Alcor Medical Advisory Board...how convenient.
[www.alcor.org]
You see, Terry Grossman charges yuppies afraid of dying tens of thousands of dollars for his "treatments" at his clinics. So its interesting he is connected to Alcor.

So there seems to be a number of questions, about regulating cryonics, about where the money is going, about what happened with Ted Williams, about their business connections.

And regarding this forum, to what extent a "cultish mindset" has crept into the cryonics movement. After all, they are getting anti-scientific, and are seeking publicity (Ted Williams), and seeking money, and also seeking to avoid regulation.

There is a foul stench coming from Alcor and cryonics.

What is to stop Sci-Fi cults like the Raelians, or groups like that, from also getting onto the cryonics gravy-train? All they have to do is convince people that cryonics is viable with lies and BS, then get them to turn over their entire Estate (which could be worth millions) to fund the freezing. Then guess what? After the person is dead, who is going to monitor anything? The family cannot.
What if they start getting rid of bodies to cut costs?

Its madness they are allowed to hold mutilated human corpses in deep freezers.

Mr advancedatheist says: “Don't sound so self-important, Mr. Johnson.”


Don’t worry about how I sound, Mr. advancedatheist (aka Mark Plus), General Manager of the Creekside Preserve in Mayer Arizona.

To all of my supporters who are following this thread. To get an idea of the type of people we’re dealing with; please view Mr. Plus (advancedatheist) on his youtube page. Of course when Mr. Plus discovers that I have posted this video, he will immediately delete it, which will only prove that he (like many of his kind) has an awful lot to hide.

[www.youtube.com]

Mark, you need to crawl back to Cold Filter where you belong before I bring up your involvement with a certain individual. You remember the Henson/Scientology incident, don't you? You know exactly what I mean.

FREETED:

Stop the personal attacks.