Alex Horn today
Posted by:
Marie27
()
Date: July 24, 2005 11:58PM
Moishe3rd,
I'm not sorry to hear that you had a different experience with Alex when you knew him. I struggled with conflicting emotions about him for several years after I left the group for good six years ago. Unfortunately, I think that the path Alex is on now is one that was set a good many years ago, back to the 1970s at least, when he and Sharon left San Francisco in the middle of the night to avoid charges of physical abuse and child neglect.
Funny how he never mentioned that, or who his teacher was (was it John Bennett, very briefly, as others say, or was it Rodney Collin, as he told us once, but only once, and very much in passing?). Who knows. Like everything else, so much about Alex is secret from his students and comes out in little, weird, jarring incidents.
This group is perhaps more subtle than some other cults -- you aren't, for example, taken into a room for three days and brainwashed. But it's true that while you are not physically trapped inside that classroom having Alex and your "friends" tell you what a piece of garbage you are, you are psychologically trapped. And you may be trapped in that room for many many years inside your head.
I was in that place for several years after leaving. It was only when I was able to bring myself to do some research about Alex (like the SF Chronicle article) and see a therapist who specializes in cults, that I began to see the reality of it all. Even then it took a long time for me to accept what had really happened. I was just a mark. There was no great good and evil drama about my being in the class, or my leaving it. Alex simply saw me, saw my vulnerabilities, my ability to pay, and my usefulness. I was a business proposition, nothing more or less.
At this point I view my years with the class as a somewhat harsh lesson in human nature. I saw that people like Alex exist, in all their charm and destructiveness. I saw my "friends" eager to gain power and hurt me in the process. I saw myself join in the mob to drive other students out.
For those who stay in the class, I have no comment =-- I don't know what their experience is. For those who leave, I hope that they find help and are able to accept it.
I'm not sorry to hear that you had a different experience with Alex when you knew him. I struggled with conflicting emotions about him for several years after I left the group for good six years ago. Unfortunately, I think that the path Alex is on now is one that was set a good many years ago, back to the 1970s at least, when he and Sharon left San Francisco in the middle of the night to avoid charges of physical abuse and child neglect.
Funny how he never mentioned that, or who his teacher was (was it John Bennett, very briefly, as others say, or was it Rodney Collin, as he told us once, but only once, and very much in passing?). Who knows. Like everything else, so much about Alex is secret from his students and comes out in little, weird, jarring incidents.
This group is perhaps more subtle than some other cults -- you aren't, for example, taken into a room for three days and brainwashed. But it's true that while you are not physically trapped inside that classroom having Alex and your "friends" tell you what a piece of garbage you are, you are psychologically trapped. And you may be trapped in that room for many many years inside your head.
I was in that place for several years after leaving. It was only when I was able to bring myself to do some research about Alex (like the SF Chronicle article) and see a therapist who specializes in cults, that I began to see the reality of it all. Even then it took a long time for me to accept what had really happened. I was just a mark. There was no great good and evil drama about my being in the class, or my leaving it. Alex simply saw me, saw my vulnerabilities, my ability to pay, and my usefulness. I was a business proposition, nothing more or less.
At this point I view my years with the class as a somewhat harsh lesson in human nature. I saw that people like Alex exist, in all their charm and destructiveness. I saw my "friends" eager to gain power and hurt me in the process. I saw myself join in the mob to drive other students out.
For those who stay in the class, I have no comment =-- I don't know what their experience is. For those who leave, I hope that they find help and are able to accept it.
Re: Alex Horn today
Posted by:
sar
()
Date: October 25, 2007 09:00AM
Quote
Moishe3rd
"No one was ever told when and how to break off relationships or to get married - certainly not by Alex. Sharon did often suggest these sorts of things. Some students who had been there many years took her suggestions. Some students who had been there many years did not. The same with newer students."
When I was in the group these were often not "take it or leave it" suggestions.
At least twice in my experience, Horn told women that they had two weeks to find and marry a man or leave the "school".
Gans not only suggested these things, but when I was in the group('77-'79) a short time before you, she demanded that at least one couple in the "younger student" group get married or leave the "school". (admittedly unusual for the 'younger student" group-- but it happened, and I witnessed it).
In the "older student" group a huge percentage of "students" were in arranged marriages by Gans- people you and I both knew-- whether it was "get married or leave" I don't know, but judging from my experience it's possible it was her way or the highway--and a lot of those couples were absolutely miserable. Between Gans' cute philosophy ("hate n' mate") and Horn's "If a woman gets in the way of your evolution, kick her in the teeth and move on" (love that "kick her in the teeth"-- Horn's psychopathy and misogyny always added that extra oomph to his teachings) they probably created enough unhappy families to populate San Francisco.
Re: Alex Horn today
Posted by:
richard condon
()
Date: January 26, 2008 03:27AM
I was in Gans' group for 9 years, from '86-'95. I took the work seriously and worked sincerely, in the later years struggeling with what I felt to be my conscience and some of the demands/edicts presented me. Ultimately I was kicked out over the issue of a bounced check. I must say that all things considered, I did have many positive experiences and outcomes from work-related undertakings (mostly my own aims). The bottom line is I do not believe that Sharon had my best interest at heart; I think she only had room to consider her own greed and vanity. To credit her, or school for my positive experiences would be like falling in love with another prisoner in a Nazi concentration camp, miraculously acheiving escape, then reminiscing fondly on the "Nazi days" and crediting them with uniting me with the love of my life. There is no other sane way to look at the situation.
Re: Alex Horn today
Posted by:
sar
()
Date: February 06, 2008 07:17AM
Well it doesn't sound completely sane.
That's two pretty different extremes-- "many positive experiences and outcomes from work-related undertakings" and "a Nazi Concentration Camp"--I'm a little confused about your analogy-- unless you feel that being there was as traumatic and soul destroying-- well, as a Nazi concentration Camp (but partly redeemed by your positive experiences)?
So if Sharon (or the group) helped initiate those experiences, no matter what the motives, does giving her or the group any credit negate its harmful aspects? Or is that like crediting fate or the "quirks" in your personality that leads you down certain paths?
It seems strange that they would completely dump you after nine years over a bounced check--
Be interested in sharing some experiences- we were there at two very different times, and I'd like to know how they changed their MO.
That's two pretty different extremes-- "many positive experiences and outcomes from work-related undertakings" and "a Nazi Concentration Camp"--I'm a little confused about your analogy-- unless you feel that being there was as traumatic and soul destroying-- well, as a Nazi concentration Camp (but partly redeemed by your positive experiences)?
So if Sharon (or the group) helped initiate those experiences, no matter what the motives, does giving her or the group any credit negate its harmful aspects? Or is that like crediting fate or the "quirks" in your personality that leads you down certain paths?
It seems strange that they would completely dump you after nine years over a bounced check--
Be interested in sharing some experiences- we were there at two very different times, and I'd like to know how they changed their MO.
Re: Alex Horn today
Posted by:
Moishe3rd
()
Date: February 20, 2008 06:25AM
According to this website: The "Alex Horn" Pages
Alex Horn passed away September 30, 2007.
I am wondering if anyone knows if this is true.
"There is no way this winter is ever going to end as long as that groundhog keeps seeing his shadow.
I don't see any way out of it.
He's got to be stopped.
And I have to stop him."
Alex Horn passed away September 30, 2007.
I am wondering if anyone knows if this is true.
"There is no way this winter is ever going to end as long as that groundhog keeps seeing his shadow.
I don't see any way out of it.
He's got to be stopped.
And I have to stop him."
Re: Alex Horn today
Posted by:
cber7
()
Date: February 24, 2008 01:04AM
Moishe3rd wrote:
According to this website: The "Alex Horn" Pages
Alex Horn passed away September 30, 2007.
I am wondering if anyone knows if this is true.
"There is no way this winter is ever going to end as long as that groundhog keeps seeing his shadow.
I don't see any way out of it.
He's got to be stopped.
And I have to stop him."
lol. count dracula is dead and gone forever and now one of his many renfields decides to weigh in with some faux-clever recurrence claptrap reference. try living in the real world before you are dead and gone forever too. you're truly creepy.
for your information he had convinced himself years ago he wasn't coming back. thankfully this is one of the few truths he ever uttered. hope that helps!
According to this website: The "Alex Horn" Pages
Alex Horn passed away September 30, 2007.
I am wondering if anyone knows if this is true.
"There is no way this winter is ever going to end as long as that groundhog keeps seeing his shadow.
I don't see any way out of it.
He's got to be stopped.
And I have to stop him."
lol. count dracula is dead and gone forever and now one of his many renfields decides to weigh in with some faux-clever recurrence claptrap reference. try living in the real world before you are dead and gone forever too. you're truly creepy.
for your information he had convinced himself years ago he wasn't coming back. thankfully this is one of the few truths he ever uttered. hope that helps!
Re: Alex Horn today
Posted by:
Moishe3rd
()
Date: February 24, 2008 10:16AM
Quote
cber7
Moishe3rd wrote:
According to this website: The "Alex Horn" Pages
Alex Horn passed away September 30, 2007.
I am wondering if anyone knows if this is true.
"There is no way this winter is ever going to end as long as that groundhog keeps seeing his shadow.
I don't see any way out of it.
He's got to be stopped.
And I have to stop him."
lol. count dracula is dead and gone forever and now one of his many renfields decides to weigh in with some faux-clever recurrence claptrap reference. try living in the real world before you are dead and gone forever too. you're truly creepy.
for your information he had convinced himself years ago he wasn't coming back. thankfully this is one of the few truths he ever uttered. hope that helps!
How odd...
The groundhog thing perhaps?
It's my signature lines. It's on just about everything I post anywhere and has been for the last seven years or so...
It hasn't referred to Alex until now. But, who knows - maybe you have given new insight into the profundities of "Groundhog Day," a truly classic movie. Thanks!
Re: Alex Horn today
Posted by:
cber7
()
Date: February 27, 2008 06:07AM
lol. count dracula is dead and gone forever and now one of his many renfields decides to weigh in with some faux-clever recurrence claptrap reference. try living in the real world before you are dead and gone forever too. you're truly creepy.
for your information he had convinced himself years ago he wasn't coming back. thankfully this is one of the few truths he ever uttered. hope that helps!
How odd...
The groundhog thing perhaps?
It's my signature lines. It's on just about everything I post anywhere and has been for the last seven years or so...
It hasn't referred to Alex until now. But, who knows - maybe you have given new insight into the profundities of "Groundhog Day," a truly classic movie. Thanks!
yes moishe3rd it is odd that it is the first time you have used it here. your cutesy/breezy religious persona fools nobody but yourself. you have been poisoned by a proverbial bite in the neck and underneath it all you relish being sadistic. you learned this well from dracula-- the sadist part i mean. to take a page from the alex horn playbook-- because it is a language that all his spiritual slaves understand so well: you're sick and you need help.
religion ain't cutting it, papi.
for your information he had convinced himself years ago he wasn't coming back. thankfully this is one of the few truths he ever uttered. hope that helps!
How odd...
The groundhog thing perhaps?
It's my signature lines. It's on just about everything I post anywhere and has been for the last seven years or so...
It hasn't referred to Alex until now. But, who knows - maybe you have given new insight into the profundities of "Groundhog Day," a truly classic movie. Thanks!
yes moishe3rd it is odd that it is the first time you have used it here. your cutesy/breezy religious persona fools nobody but yourself. you have been poisoned by a proverbial bite in the neck and underneath it all you relish being sadistic. you learned this well from dracula-- the sadist part i mean. to take a page from the alex horn playbook-- because it is a language that all his spiritual slaves understand so well: you're sick and you need help.
religion ain't cutting it, papi.
Re: Alex Horn today
Posted by:
wasthere222
()
Date: June 03, 2010 01:07AM
Even though this post is more than 2 years old, I feel compelled to speak with Moishe3rd because, as a recent escapee from the Gans Boston Group (run by your "friend" Klein), I have been reading all I can on this site to get a new perspective on what I experienced as a member.
My impulse is to say - get off this site, you are not helping anyone.
My impulse is to say - get off this site, you are not helping anyone.
Re: Alex Horn today (Sharon Gans, Robert Klein)
Posted by:
wasthere222
()
Date: June 03, 2010 04:30AM
Quote
Moishe3rd
Hopefully, you will get some good from this site.
My experiences were not the same as others apparently were.
And, people do indeed change. As far as I know, Bob would not deign to speak or communicate with me nowadays. Or, at least he has not replied to anything I might have sent his way since around 1986. So, I suspect he is heavily into whatever culty thing that they are doing now.
That doesn't change my experiences or the useful things that I learned and have carried with me.
If it would be useful in your getting over the whole thing, it would massage my curiosity if you wanted to tell me what the hell they are up to nowadays.
If not, don't.
I wish you well.
Moishe3rd
------------------------------------------------------
wasthere222 reply to Moishe3rd:
No, it wouldn't be useful to me to tell you what they are up to these days, and from the sound of it, it wouldn't be useful to you, either.
If you haven't been involved since 1986, haven't gotten any replies from Robert, aren't interested in re-joining, and aren't trying to help those who have gotten out, then leave it all behind you and leave others alone.
You are only selfishly feeding your curiosity and messing with people who need real compassion and help.
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